OK, who saw the Orange Bowl fiasco
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Posted on Jan 06, 2005 08:16 am
dbmasters
Administrator Since: Apr 03, 2002
I've heard stories, heard some audio clips, seen the news...who actually saw the half-time show orf the Orange Bowl?
When will Ashlee Simpson's promoters finally realize she has no actual talent, when will football (college and professional) realize they need REAL entertainment for people or nothing at all?
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Jan 06, 2005 08:48 am I watched the game and the halftime show. The first ady was clearly shaken when her microphone didn't work. She never recovered. The next guy, Trace Adkins, is a country singer, who did well, but I don't think his music appealed to the crowd/audience. And, yes, Ashlee Simpson really needs to go back to lip-synching!
U2's new video was OK, but it was hard to really watch it with all of the football action intermingled with it.
ZX6R1033PerdidoMember
Since: Dec 15, 2004
Jan 06, 2005 08:57 am This has been posted across every last one of the forums I read... 300ZXclub, here, Supraforums, Ultimate-guitar... hahaha I have been saying right along that she had no talent, and was trying to ride her sister's coat tails. I just hope the right people in the music industry have finally realized the same thing and dropped her.
It wasnt too long ago that AOL made such a big deal out of her "proving the public wrong" in their studios, shortly after the lip synching routine.
Jan 06, 2005 09:02 am I don't think it's her, from things I have seen and read (not that I pay that close of attention) but it seems to be their father that is pimping these two so hard...and shoving them down everybody's throats...
vdalehubbardLost for words with all to say.Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003
Jan 06, 2005 09:39 am It's sad. I imagine she felt really horrible after the whole crowd was booing her.
She just needs to cash in what she has gotten, which is probably more then we'll ever see, and call it a day....
Jan 06, 2005 09:42 am The story I heard this morning is that after the show she was rushed back to her hotel, hyperventalating, had to have a doctor called and everything cuz she was so upset about the bad gig....
Ya know, call me crazy, but I didn't start performing music until I learned about music...I didn't apply for web dev jobs until I knew how to build web sites...I think I see where she mis-stepped...
ZX6R1033PerdidoMember
Since: Dec 15, 2004
Jan 06, 2005 09:50 am ...and to think, at some point long before her "career", someone near and dear to her lied to her and convinced her she had talent. It really is such a shame when you can be betrayed by family members like that.
Jan 06, 2005 09:54 am Of course, when you have a sister like Jessica, who is actually incredibly talented (and kinda hot) it's gotta be tough to parent when one can so easily feel inferior to a prodigy of a sibling.
ZX6R1033PerdidoMember
Since: Dec 15, 2004
Jan 06, 2005 10:03 am but not having had a previous musical background... how the hell did she manage to get a contract so quickly? This question is retorical, as the answer is simple. Jessica. I think it is VERY wrong for that to happen, while there are so many tallented bands that can not get a contract regardless of what they do.
Just an example... the area I am from origionally, there was a band comprised of four people that were going to college near by. They are EXTREMELY tallented, and had an awesome CD they they are selling independantly. Chances are, though, that they will never be picked up. I think that is wrong.
Jan 06, 2005 10:07 am Quote:
but not having had a previous musical background... how the hell did she manage to get a contract so quickly?
Oh, come on, is that a serious question? You know darn well how she did, hollywood and the entertainment industry at large has become such a closed society only siblings and children are getting the breaks...have you ever noticed how many kids and siblings of stars are suddenly acting and have bands on the scene? Pretty soon Hollywood will just be a bunch of in-bred-jeds...
shepherdsampatron saint of quality footwearMember
Since: May 30, 2002
Jan 06, 2005 10:23 am I watched it.
It was like coming upon a bad car accident and finding out all of the victims dressed as clowns, I didn't know whether to laugh or feel sorry for her.
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Jan 06, 2005 10:33 am Well, that is pretty much what happens. How many of us are going to have kids that are going to be in bands? Probably all of us? Most of these pop artists started as kids. They were bred and raised for it, and when they arn't right there is nothing for them to do.
I'm not going to assume that Ashley had "no experience" with her family history but I will assume that she didn't get there with her own talent.
No I didn't see the Orange Bowl either... if anyone knows a clip online though I'd appreciate it.
Jan 06, 2005 10:35 am i watched the game which was a fiasco in itself, didnt catch the halftime show but heard about it. To me lip syncing should be illegal in any live situation. If you cant sing live, then dont do live shows! If you cant dance and sing at the same time, then dont dance! Is it me or is mainstream entertainment becoming a complete and total joke? from the foolish reality shows to the music its just plain bad! thank god for the indie/underground scene!
Jan 06, 2005 10:40 am oddly, they seems to have video at ashleesimpson.net/ but I am at work so I'll view later.
As far as lip syncing goes, I don't care if they do or not, f it's a good show and I can't tell I don't care.
vdalehubbardLost for words with all to say.Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003
Jan 06, 2005 10:50 am HAHA, that is the best example yet shepherdsam!
vdalehubbardLost for words with all to say.Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003
Jan 06, 2005 10:51 am Yeah, on her website it has this:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ashlee Simpson Booed at Orange Bowl
Ashlee Simpson's Orange Bowl halftime performance was a lemon, according to the 72,000-plus Miami crowd. The 20-year-old singer received a discernible chorus of boos following a performance of her song "La La."
"You make me wanna scream," she sang before the audience jeered.
Simpson was among a trio of halftime performers Tuesday night in a game that saw Southern California overwhelm Oklahoma 55-19. The camera cut away from her face as the booing began. (read more)
A press release? Wtf?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I don't get the last sentence.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Jan 06, 2005 11:13 am I was too upset about the debacle on the field to care anything about the halftime show. I hate halftime shows altogether. Why does America think that in order for a big game to be complete, somebody in a cowboy hat has to sing a song? I just don't get it. If the US were a pickup truck right now, it'd have a sticker of Calvin peeing on something on it.
I can't believe that OU choked again! I mean, its one thing to lose a big game...its one thing to lose 2 big games in a row...but to get ****-canned 2 years in a row with so much talent on your team? WTF goes into Stoops' regimine of preparing for bowl games? Lucky Strikes and funnel cakes?
"...and now, everybody drink your pre-game gallon of whole milk!"
Jan 06, 2005 11:42 am shepherdsam
patron saint of quality footwear
Member
Since: May 30, 2002
Jan 06, 2005 10:23 am
I watched it.
It was like coming upon a bad car accident and finding out all of the victims dressed as clowns, I didn't know whether to laugh or feel sorry for her
I read this and I just finished cracking up about 15 minutes ago, got introuble, im in class, man I saw the SNL video and I felt bad, when I see it I feel natious, I would hate to be in her shoes. Cant wait to see the Orange bowl fiasco.
tonedef231I'm scary! Boo!!!Member
Since: Jul 25, 2004
Jan 06, 2005 12:49 pm I agree with Tadpui and all of you here. I just watched it for myself...and OH MY GOD!!! That was horrible. I was already depressed enough though with the score. I'm glad I didn't see a terrible halftime show on top of it.
Jason H.Jack of all trades master of ___Member
Since: May 28, 2004
Jan 06, 2005 04:08 pm Which is why I cant stand the NFL & the Super Bowl...the halftime show is a hour long...I always walk away...Its never about the game, its about corporate america....its corporate america's christmas so to speak...BASTARDS!
Anytime I see an allstar game or a probowl that has 5 or 6 musicians on the docket...I cringe...I need that during a game like I need a kick in the balls...C'mon...
The only thing that needs to be at midfield is the event's logo...not 1 musician with 400 backup dancers singing half their crappy *** CD...It makes me wanna puke in my soup...
But unlike most blind melons in this fading republic...I don't call up ABC and ***** about how offended I am...I actually TURN THE CHANNEL...CAN ANYONE BELIEVE THAT???
I love myself...
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Jan 06, 2005 05:51 pm If they booked DCI groups to perform then I would probably watch the rest of the game :)
...but without the Super Bowl Curse we'd still have a bunch of hasbeens thinking they still have a career...
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Jan 06, 2005 06:08 pm ok just went through both of the videos... I feel bad for most of the dancers... though a number of them were screwing up too...
Notice the "other voice" again? :) It's still there... though I think she was ...umm... vocalizing live... as no recording could be that bad. However there was a background vocal singing the exact same thing...well at least the same words and different notes would be hit and I don't think stadium reverb can do that.... so she must still have acid reflux...
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Jan 06, 2005 07:18 pm I think the "other voice" was the bass player... Could be wrong. Chap with the coat over his shoulders...
Saw it. Couldn't believe it. Will the real musicians please stand up.
Jan 06, 2005 07:37 pm I just watched the vid. I think the sound engineer had it out for her. Notice that at first her level was quite low. Then about half-way through, (about when her performance took a dive) the level of her voice is brought up.
That HAS to be about the crappiest feeling you could go through. I know I have alot of stage performance issues, but if something like that ever happened to me I think I'd be locked up in a closet for the rest of my life!
Jan 06, 2005 07:40 pm I dunno, I have played for less-than-appreciative crowds a couple times, it sucks, but then the next gig you get a great show and ya just forget all about it...
Jan 06, 2005 07:47 pm Thats true, I've had my share of lemon shows. And yes, the great ones always stick in my mind better. This isn't really related but it always seems like a prerequisit for a good show is a lousy rehearsal the night before.
I just couldn't imagine in front of ~70,000 people. And then all the bad press afterwards. YUCK!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jan 06, 2005 09:20 pm The background voice is the female keyboard player. They put her in there a after the SNL incedent. I am guessing to prevent any more screwups. Not alot of good that did. I saw her perfomr this same tune on Leno, and it still stunk.
Not only is she singing off key, but out of time as well. And if you look at here face during the close ups, she looks completely exhausted from that short little performance. And she didnt even dance that much.
I hope this teaches her a lesson and she gives it up. Some people got it, and she just doesnt.
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Jan 06, 2005 09:55 pm ...that was dancing? :)
They should dump simpson and go with the keyboard player then. They'd have plenty of press for a successful charting campaign and I'd bet they'd have more fun playing good shows.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jan 06, 2005 11:12 pm Ya, cause the pity of it is her band is dang good. Anyone who can play with a straight face while backing that putzy chick gets full credit for being the consumate professional in my book. I loved it on SNL when they just looked at one and other and just kept playing, rockin even harder after she ran off stage.
I am guessing they are getting paid very well for putting up with her.
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Jan 06, 2005 11:19 pm I would assume atleast $30,000 a gig as I once asked a major christian drummer what he earned and he made $~10,000 a gig.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jan 06, 2005 11:33 pm For 30K a gig, I would sing and kiss her out of key backside too.
Jan 06, 2005 11:55 pm i'm just tired of disney reselling all the old m.m.club players to us singing more adult oriented songs wheather than sing,dance,synch or not ...i bet if disney had a porn channel they extend the contract for another five years each ..sorry but i think musicans representing themselves as such in a manner of performing, not pose as actors playing the role of performing musicians who go on the road and struggle for every scrap of respect they can get in hope of someday making a living doing what they love ..but instead we are bombarded by snot nosed rich kids born into the industry with a contract staples to their birth certificate!...whooooa ..was that a rant ?
Jan 07, 2005 02:13 am I'm with you there Noize...nah!...I'm there before you...hahaha...NZ$60 000 per gig? Whoa...I better get practising!
vdalehubbardLost for words with all to say.Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003
Jan 07, 2005 07:19 am Christian Drummer making $10,000 a gig? Geez, if you din't mind me asking, what band did he play for? I'm thinking it had to be one of the ones that has mainstream links too like Switchfoot, POD, or MercyMe. Most popular Christian artist I know maybe pull in as low as $1,000 to $3,000 per whole band per gig! And these are the ones that sell their albums in all the christian stores in this country!
Jan 07, 2005 08:17 am Well, the christian market, while growing, is still WAY smaller than the mainstream, not as much money in it as a whole.
ZX6R1033PerdidoMember
Since: Dec 15, 2004
Jan 07, 2005 09:23 am I am not so sure there is a seperation anymore... as there are about 7 mainstream bands that I can think of right off the top of my head that are christian bands.
Jan 07, 2005 09:26 am Big differences can be had with how they are marketed, the line is getting fuzzier tho, which is good.
ZX6R1033PerdidoMember
Since: Dec 15, 2004
Jan 07, 2005 09:36 am It was a lng time before I realized that some of my most favorite bands were christian. A good chunk of the time, their lyrics dont reflect it. There was a time when I thought of christian music as the church type... where every other word was god, jesus, lord, exc. Now we have bands like Evanescence, 12 Stones, Pillar, POD, Switchfoot... it still amazes me how nieve I was.
Jan 07, 2005 09:38 am There is also a difference between members of a band being Christians and being a Christian band...
vdalehubbardLost for words with all to say.Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003
Jan 07, 2005 10:06 am Very true dB
Evanescence got the title of "Christian Band" and when they heard about that, Amy (Singer)and Moody (Guitar Player)made sure to make it clear during a rolling stones interview that they were not a Christian band. Even went as far as to dropping the F-Bomb a couple times during the interview.
Chevelle has pretty much done the same thing. Are Christians I believe but yet they talk about how much they drink and such. Guess they don't want the label of Christian to hurt their "image".
Makes me sad really, just be honest. Geez, if the music is good it will be bought.
Jan 07, 2005 10:09 am Quote:
Geez, if the music is good it will be bought.
Ya mean like Ashley SImpson and Britney Spears?
Come on, most marketing has nothing to do with music quality...at least in popular music which markets mainly to young peeps, it's all image, you know that...
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Jan 07, 2005 10:09 am He drummed for DC Talk and Amy Grant. I think at the time DC Talk was charging $80,000 per show to promoters. Bands like this don't play as often though and they play to larger audiences and charge more per person. Indie bands get usually $1 per person at the door so an indie band playing the orange bowl could expect $70,000 plus it's being broadcast to a couple million.
Buy yeah, most the signed christian bands I know are $500 to $1000 up to $3000. I could probably get Staple for $500 as I know them and they live in the region... Stavesacre would probably be $1000 as they are out of state... $3000 for bands that bring and setup their own PA.
The big three at the time were DC Talk, Amy Grant, and the Supertones.
heh I have a story about me and POD...
In 97 or 98 they were playing at a church here in columbus with a few other bands. Audience turn out was huge...maybe 400 people :) POD played and I thought they were ok and after the show I bought their demo for Fundemental Elements of Southtown... $5 and the band members were running the table... and I never bothered to get it signed
:(
about 3 years later I hear some friends of mine who arn't into christina music talk about this awsome new band with the new song called Fundemental Elements of Southtown... I was like ..."they're _still_ playing that song?!" The friends were shocked that I;ve even heard of them as I usually only listen to christian metal and miss out on a lot of pop culture... I replyed "Yeah, I bought their demo from them at a show a few years ago and it was all over christian radio... I thought they were ok though..."
Christian Metal Never Dies RAWR!!!!
ZX6R1033PerdidoMember
Since: Dec 15, 2004
Jan 07, 2005 10:11 am I understand this... the lyrics are christian, its just hard to pick them out. 12 stones has a song that I love, and in the second verse, they finally say "lord". until then, I thought he was singing to a girl. Evanescence isnt so blatent, but if you listen to the lyrics, its obvious.
Evanescence - Tourniquet
Do you remember me
lost for so long
will you be waiting on the other side
or will you forget me?
Im dying, praying, bleeding, screaming
am i too lost to be saved?
am I too lost?
My god, my tourniquet
return to me salvation
12 stones - The way I feel
The world I know is pulling me
More and more each day
I feel like the odd man out as I begin to pray
Spiteful eyes are watching me
With everything I do
In the midst of darkness Lord
My spirit calls for you
Jan 07, 2005 10:12 am Yea, DC Talk bridged the gap, they played the BIG venues, I worked security for them at some big arena's, surely they are not the norm though. PFR was on their way at one time, Amy Grant I have a hard time lumping in that group, she played the big rooms, and talked the talk, but did not walk the walk.
Supertones were (or are?) a fun band.
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Jan 07, 2005 10:34 am Evanescence caused a big stir with their "we're not a Christian band" thing. The Christian record stores were trashing their CD's and doing everything to damn them. It's a bit sad, since they never said they were not Christians, just not a Christian band! They we're not denying their faith, just trying to avoid being pigeonholed.
Bring Me To Life was about as obvious as you can get! From what I hear from the lyrics, it's about her finding her god, her faith, and her spirituality.
Collective Soul have been a favourite of mine for a while. I'm not a Christian, but I do love "spiritual" songs. They started as a church band...
I'm so glad all the barriers are finally coming down. There are cross-over bands for every genre in the "mainstream" now. Rock-Rap, Christian-Metal, Jazz-Pop, Big Band-Rock, Let's just call it all MUSIC, and stop trying to label everything. Demographics suck!
Jan 07, 2005 10:36 am People get wacky when you start dealing with religion, at any level...
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jan 07, 2005 12:32 pm Sorry bout being a little late on this one. Not too interested in spectator sports I guess.
That was tragic. She had all the expressions down pat however. I'm supprised the crowd boo'ed. The sheep usualy do what the media tells them to do. "This is big and good and thou shalt clap and spend thine money".
Are people thinking, and listening? Naw...must have been a fluke.
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Jan 07, 2005 04:20 pm maybe what we thought was booing was a weird feedback loop of the stadium reverb? :)
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jan 07, 2005 06:56 pm That must have been it!
After all it's only rock & Roll, It's supposta sound like that......right?
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Jan 07, 2005 07:15 pm ...ehh... I think that only works with jazz...
shepherdsampatron saint of quality footwearMember
Since: May 30, 2002
Jan 07, 2005 10:01 pm Having seen Ms. Simpson's dreadful "performance" (gotta be a better word for what she did out there) a few times now, I retract my previous post.
I no longer see the humour I first saw in it.
It's like the clowns have started to decay and it's just a highway of dead stinking flesh, greasepaint and automobile wreckage.
This poor woman must be stopped, if her family loves her they won't let her continue.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jan 08, 2005 12:01 am And the bad part is about Ashlee is she could become one of those rock and roll statistics who went out too young. She is s train wreck waiting to happen, and if/when it does her greedy father will only hang his head and look for pity even though he wi the one who is driving her into it.
I find it sad to think, and wonder what is going on in her little head after all this ruckus. Maybe she will just find her way to some desert island were no one knows her name or face, and just dissappear.
I guess after some of the bad things I have said about her I now feel a bit guilty. As dB stated earlier it is her father driving her. But she could just say no, I cant do it and walk away. But I guess greed is a powerfull attractant. Pity!
On the cristian band subject. I thinnk our of all the bands in the vein of Evanescance, POD and the like. I have seen POD pay the most respect to accepting that referance. Although they dont push and try to pass themselves off as such, their messages are very clear. My oldest son even has some thrash metal and speed metal christain recordings, the names leave me at the moment. But I was impressed, even though most of the lyrics were very hard to understand, when you read them they are indeed singing about the lord and chritianity.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jan 08, 2005 12:52 am I think the industry is missing the boat. Folks want a show. So, go for it! Make it a modified circus event:
Now showing at halftime....
Bambi the porn star wiggling her butt floss and hanging out itts and bitts to the tunes of the javalovinwhatevertheyare's.
I would not only appreciate the honesty, but what the hey, Bambi could concentrate on what she does best as could the musicians!
Everybody wins!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jan 09, 2005 05:40 pm Ya know Walt, ya got something there when ya think about it.
People go to movies knowing ahead of time they are fantasy for the most part. Why not be honest about the fact you sound really good in the studio, and look better in tight jeans live.
And as long as some one is still buying tickets, and CD's, then it is all good.
I for one would truely appreciate the honesty.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jan 09, 2005 11:52 pm Well, I am just giving in to being old. Played that clip for a local drummer Saturday, and he was like 'Ya she's hot! and that little squeel at the end...wow'. I'm now staring at him like he's from another planet. He says, 'oh they just didn't have her mixed right, should have been further back'. Now I'm looking for signs if gills or a tail or antennas or something. He runs out to his car and brings in a cd of some Brody or something like that. My God, there she was again. Kikda like a Pshcho, Bob Dylan on helium with severe hemroidal problems. And then I get an email asking me if I want to be a talent scout today.
I wrote back and simply said 'sorry, no, I am clueless when it comes to talent'.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jan 10, 2005 12:08 am Not to badger her any more but her goes anyway. Tell yer drummer buddy that I said, How can you have someone who is not only out of tune but out of sync with the rest of the band as well, mixed right?
It wouldnt have mattered unless he shut her mic completely off.
OK, enough badgering.
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Jan 10, 2005 01:05 am Bah ! I'm dyin over here !!!
Walt, I'll bet your e-label guy never seen that one commin' !!!
Noise, we have a guy in the acoustic project that we were just joking about, giving him a dead mic if had even ONE drop of alcohol at the next gig... we even named it the Mike-rophone ! heh Great guy, but his ear goes right out the window with the first beer... physiological thing from drinking for so long... like invoking Dean Martin . BAM !
Hey, maybe Simpson's a lush ! ? 8p
dansaltdoganother day another ray of hopeMember
Since: Oct 14, 2004
Jan 10, 2005 05:54 am Yeah, but Walt, it's not about talent anymore. What with programmes like "pop idol" and "fame academy" notice they didn't call it "talent" academy. People like A. Simpson just want to be famous, and at any cost, no talent required. This is what stops me having sympathy for these fame seekers. If music doesn't work for them they can try films, or TV. it doesn't matter cause all they want is FAME, whilst there are others out there that really believe in what they do, and whether I like their music or not, do not deserve to be booed, and do deserve my sympathy if they are.
Sorry Ashlee, maybe you could try roller skating, or football. But don't give up, there are plenty other ways to get famous that require no talent at all...mass murder, topless modelling, singing (sorry, you tried that one already)... And anyway, you failed fame seekers always end up as some type of chat-show host, or a failed celebrity quiz show contestant, so there's no need to get all upset, with a father like yours, fame will come your way
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jan 10, 2005 08:08 am I think you are right Dan. I had no idea the woman existed until now. By gully there Ashley honney you done did get yerself some oh that there fame stuff. Yesser E D Bob.
And you know something.... It is the most entertainement I have gotton out of any half time show in a very long time. Chatten here about it, meeting a drummer that thinks she's great just in the wrong genre and mixed to high.
So, Congradulations there Ashley! Job well done! Oh yea, cudos to Homer, or Pops, or whoever you are.
ZX6R1033PerdidoMember
Since: Dec 15, 2004
Jan 10, 2005 09:43 am Walt, you should have said yes to the talent scout thing. You know what talent is. the problem is, the current "talent" scouts do not. I am beginning to think they just give recording contracts in turn for sexual favors instead of actual talent. It really is too bad that the world is moving in that direction, and I would love to see some real bands on MTV instead of people like this.
Jan 10, 2005 11:12 am Talent scouts just know what can get them something, talent is a moot point, just like anything else in life, everybody's job is to get something for themeselves, correct? That's what they are doing, it's no different than why I go to work in the morning, to get me something...
I fail to see why people think the entertainment business should operate on some sort of ethical level different from others...they operate just like any other, you put out a product that will make money.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jan 10, 2005 12:35 pm ZX6R,
Thanks for the support! But dB is spot on. Per what is marketed today as entertainment I would not recognize it if it landed on my head. My reaction to a screaming bimbo like that is 'get it out of my living room!'.....'change the channel....fast!'. One must know their limitations. My wife watches TV. I can not for the life of me understand the draw. Nope, a talent scout I am not. I can get the sound these folks want and produce it, but I have yet figgured out why most of them want to do that. Probably as per dB, bring home some bread.
Jan 10, 2005 12:51 pm That seems to be what people don't understand. Musician's (or some anyway), like any art, take their passion as being about the arti itself, and for the creators of the art, that IS what it's about, but the business of said art, is just that, business. It's not about being innovative, not about sending a message, setting an example or any other thing like that. It's about making money, a sellable product.
Why, oh why should the music business be different from other businesses? Why do each of you go to work every day? To make money...why does the company you work for exist? To make money, to find a nich and fill it with your product, hopefully gain a corner on a market and keep it, grow it and profit from it.
That is exactly what the entertainment business does. It finds/creates a nich, convinces people they need their product to fill that nich and keeps the wheel turning.
That's business people. I vividly remember the day that light went on in my head to, rather than fight the good fight from the outside as some avant-garde thinker, to learn the "business" get inside and fight from there...I dunno, my life has improved substantially since that realization and I still believe all the same things I did originally...
think about it.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jan 11, 2005 12:14 am Hey Walt, ya I remembered who she was after seeing her name in that post a second time. The Distillers were better before she came along. I have a demo cassette of her first band Sourpuss, not bad but not my first choice for easy listening. And I like most punk stuff when Im in the mood.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jan 11, 2005 12:45 am Yup, can't agree with you more dB. That is pricesly why I have stayed awaying from direct marketing, although I have had plenty of offers. I am constinly amazed with what people will spend their money on. I could run a marketing dept. into the ground in a heartbeat. Now tell me what to produce and support and I can take over from there. Prosperity is directly perportional and dependant upon the volume of money that is fluid, moving,'medium of exhange'. I hope she sells a million! Unfortunately I can't help.
Ya Noise, I find that is a very rare occurance that I am in the mood to have people jumping around and screaming like that in my presence. Just not my bag.
dansaltdoganother day another ray of hopeMember
Since: Oct 14, 2004
Jan 11, 2005 02:46 am You're right dB. I remember seeing an interview with a member of a boy band, and him saying "I really hope to do well in the music business", not "i'd really like to be a good artist". The music business, apart from a few small labels, has never been about the music, however, the artists, I would like to believe, used to be about the art and not the business. But it seems that no-one cares anymore about the art, least of all the artists. and that's where I feel saddened.
Now if there was a maximum wage that artists were allowed to earn, then maybe, just maybe all the Ashlee Simpsons of the world would never get into music in the first place, which would leave only artists that made music because they want to make music, not because they want to get rich. You only have to visit a few pubs and bars to seek them out. The ones that are our age and have been scraping a living, or just plain enjoying making music for years, or those just starting out... but all of them doing it because they love it... to me that is what the art is about
Jan 11, 2005 08:45 am I think most of the artists are, that being the artists that actually produce the music itself, not the pop stars that perform it. It's a production, just like any other form of entertainment. There is also the factor that many people get into the business for the right reasons and when I degree of success comes their way they tsart looking at it differently.
I remember seeing a bit of Vanilla Ice after his rise and fall. HE was a guy that still loves music and still performs and HATES what happened to him in the past. He had stated that, at the age he was at, you get that kind of money and fame flashed in front of your face, just about anyone would make sacrifices and changes to achieve that level.
We can all sit back in our basement studios and say "no way, not me, it's about the music, man" but I would lay odds more often than not, people would bite at the chance.
Hell, I would...and if you immediately say you wouldn't, then you are not even giving it serious thought.
dansaltdoganother day another ray of hopeMember
Since: Oct 14, 2004
Jan 11, 2005 09:09 am Of course I would, but that isn't my motivation for doing music. To "make it" would be very welcome indeed, but I believe that will not happen for me now, getting on a bit, don't fit into the industry's remit. But the difference is, I will not stop doing it, my musical interest, desire exists despite the industry, unlike Ms Simpson, who's desire to do music exists because of the industry.
Music is something I do because I want to do it. All the other industry crap exists outside of that fact. I didn't start playing in bands etc as a career move, or because I thought about the industry as something that I wanted to be part of. I did it for the fun and the love of it. If there is an industry that will make me rich doing that, then great, bring it on. but if there isn't, hell I don't care, i'm happy regardless... I live like a rich man, but without the money worries
Jan 11, 2005 09:11 am Yes,, I garee, but my point is your motivation and outlook toward the industry, your career and your goals can change based on the environment around you. It wasn't Vanilla Ice's motivation either until it was presented as a very realistic option.
dansaltdoganother day another ray of hopeMember
Since: Oct 14, 2004
Jan 12, 2005 08:00 am I kinda see what you're saying... but that implies that I could mould the industry to suit my plans or goals, when it is more likely to be the other way round. Or that I could change my plans based upon the requirements of the industry.
I have thought about this many times, and it is a very tricky one. Having not been offered a deal (for the want of a better word) it is easy for me to dismiss the notion that I would alter my musical stand point in any way. But if I was offered a substantial amount, would I then change? I'd like to think not. I have, in the past, been offered opportunities to make money or a living from music, but have questioned whether that would increase my happiness, or in actual fact reduce it. If it is not doing music the way that I want to, I'm really not that interested. That's not to say that I won't be flexible. But music is the one thing that i have that will always be mine and personal and hold some meaning, I never want to sell that down the river.
