Dec 09, 2004 08:11 am Man, I have been reading about him in GuitarWorld. Cool guy. What a total shame.
"Dime Bag" Darrel Abbott Dead
Posted on Dec 09, 2004 08:06 am
dbmasters
Administrator Since: Apr 03, 2002
abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=314575
and apparantly he was the first target of athe crazed gunman at their show.
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Dec 09, 2004 08:11 am Man, I have been reading about him in GuitarWorld. Cool guy. What a total shame.
Dec 09, 2004 08:48 am My birthday is not a good day for musicians...
John Lennon 1980...my 1st B-Day
This incident
And let not forget Jim Morrison's dead...he was born on the same day as me too...
Sad thing...It will now strike fear into every performer...
Dec 09, 2004 08:51 am So, is this offically HRC's "Dime Bag Day"?
Dec 09, 2004 08:57 am Dick Clark had a stroke too...the ageless man has aged.
Dec 09, 2004 09:04 am Ya know, this does make me think though, with the messages of violence and mayhem that heavy metal often sends, notably with Pantera as well as Damageplan, in their own words "Damageplan carries on the tradition Pantera started, the … hell-raising tradition we were all about".
Is this case of live by the sword, die by the sword?
Interesting to think about, but still, very sad, a very dark day for Heavy Metal, but perhaps could be an awakening...maybe...
Dec 09, 2004 09:12 am That's such a shame... what a terrible waste. He was a terrific guitarist.
Dec 09, 2004 09:24 am QUOTE:Is this a case of live by the sword, die by the sword?
Fair point dB...but what gives the right to one individual to decide who lives and who dies? I mean...whats that about?
But I think you're right...it is an interesting point.
BM :-(
Dec 09, 2004 09:31 am Oh, I am in NO WAY defending the killer, totally wrong. My point is that the black metal, heavy metal (call it what you want) music often promotes such thought with the music's messages. Often talking about and/or glorifiying anarchy, self-rule, murder, mayhem, rioting, gov't overthrows and the like...
It has become pretty apparant, long before this happened, that many of the people listening take it to heart.
Dec 09, 2004 09:33 am its the mark chapman effect...except with clearer messages
Dec 09, 2004 09:51 am I never thought I'd ever say this, but : Good shot, officer ! I don't care what 'reason' the guy had for shooting Dimebag, or anyone else... he got his . There is something to be said for the swift reprisal of this incredibly senseless, and wasteful act . Good shot, sir !
Dec 09, 2004 09:54 am Yeah...no...sorry...I wasn't clear...I didn't mean to imply I thought you were defending a killer...nope. So sorry...that didn't get across well dB.
But it is a very sad thing when people take matters in to their own hands and actually end peoples lives...
:-(
Dec 09, 2004 09:54 am What a tragedy. Dimebag definately wrote a lot of chapters in the book of metal guitar.
He'll be missed.
Dec 09, 2004 01:03 pm Ya know, this does make me think though, with the messages of violence and mayhem that heavy metal often sends, notably with Pantera as well as Damageplan, in their own words "Damageplan carries on the tradition Pantera started, the … hell-raising tradition we were all about".
Is this case of live by the sword, die by the sword?
I just half to say this DB and my emotions are high right now. If you knew Pantera or Darrell Abbott you'd know that most of there songs were a metaphor for the way they lived. "Lived by the sword"??? You really haven't got any clue of what you are talking about man.
Dimbag Darrell was probably one of the coolest people in the rock industry. All he ever wanted was to play his guitar and have a good time. If you actually read Pantera lyrics and knew how they treated people you'd realize this. This is a sad day for metal fans. He and Pantera gave so many people something to live for and it was all taken away by a selfish mentally deranged person.
Your comments are totally unjustified man, really. Most metal artists sing about this stuff not because they want to kill and want war. They usually sing about it in a third person perspective that when objectively read usually educates and inspires people to be more creative and to be an individual instead of trend hopping.
I totally respect you man but in this instance you really have no idea of what you speak. (And I'm saying this in the most un-egotistical way and trying not to be condescending)
It's funny though if this were true then why did John Lennon (who died on this same date) get shot? He wanted nothing but peace.
Dec 09, 2004 01:12 pm yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever.
I am not singling out this guy, I am talking about the industry at large, which does promote violence and mayhem, to argue that is just a waste of time...
And of course, saying something even the least bit controvertial about somebody right after their death will obviously lead to an emotionally charged debate, since once a person dies, they are suddenly liften onto a pedestal by those that knew/idolized that person.
I know very well of what I speak, and I am sure metalheads everywhere will bash me for it, but I don't care, I know it's true. I never met the man so I can't say anything about him specifically, cuz I never met him, but I can talk about the message the music sends, whether in third person or not is a completely moot point. And if he was as you say, that is also moot (in a way) as he was still a part of that community, and that community was ultimately responsible for his death...sadly
And comparing it to John Lennon, is just well, I won't even respond.
You can disagree with me all you want, but much like religion and politics, odds are it will be fruitless, because you are not going to change my mind. And it is condesending to tell anyone they don't know what they are talking about because they are expressing a thought that you don't happen to agree with, and you do not even KNOW that person. I have more than enough experience in the heavy metal community to know exactly what I am talking about, that community being MUCH quicker to resort to violence in a given situation than many groups of people. I have seen fights, stabbing and other stupidity happen in that community often for things as stupid as "disrespecting you", "looking at your girlfriend", "liking the wrong type of music", "bumping you while they pass you in a bar" it's utterly stupid.
Dec 09, 2004 01:15 pm Don't let this thread turn into a debate on this subject, it's not the point, I was simply stating an observation...that isn't alltogether unfounded regarding the industry/genre at large.
Regardless of my opinion, your opinion or anyone elses, it is a tragic loss.
And don't get me wrong, I like the music (or a lot of it anyway), I just prefer not to hang out with people that act the way most of my friends from the past that are still part of that scene do. Trouble seems to follow them, and of course, it's because their labelled by police, with no doing on their part...
Dec 09, 2004 01:29 pm you are correct. Here is lyrics from a Pantera song.......Hollow
What's left inside him?
Don't he remember us?
Can't he believe me?
We seemed like bothers
Talked for hours last month
About what we wanna be
I sit now with his hand in mine
But I know he can't feel...
No one knows
What's done is done
It's as if he were dead
I'm close with his mother
And she cries endlessly
Lord how we miss him
At least what's remembered
It's so important to make best friends in life
But it's hard when my friend sits with blank expressions
No one knows
What's done is done
It's as if he were dead
He as hollow as I alone now
He as hollow as I alone
A shell of my friend
Just flesh and bone
There's no soul
He sees no love
I shake my fists at skies above
Mad at God
He as hollow as I converse
I wish he'd waken from this curse
Hear my words before it's through
I want to come in after you
My best friend
He as hollow as I alone
Dec 09, 2004 01:33 pm And here is another (classy, not promoting or glorifying violence at all):
Under the lights where we stand tall
Nobody touches us at all
Showdown, shootout, spread fear within, without
We're gonna take what's ours to have
Spread the word throughout the land
They say the bad guys wear black
We're tagged and can't turn back
You see us comin'
And you all together run for cover
We're takin over this town
Here we come reach for your gun
And you better listen my friend, you see
It's been slow down below,
Aimed at you we're the cowboys from hell
Deed is done again, we've won
Ain't talking no tall tales friend
'Cause high noon, your doom
Comin' for you we're the cowboys from hell
Pillage the village, trash the scene
But better not take it out on me
'Cause a ghost town is found
Where your city used to be
So out of the darkness and into the light
Sparks fly everywhere in sight
From my double barrel, 12 gauge,
Can't lock me in your cage
You see us comin'
And you all together run for cover
We're takin over this town
Here we come reach for your gun
And you better listen my friend, you see
It's been slow down below,
Aimed at you we're the cowboys from hell
Deed is done again, we've won
Ain't talking no tall tales friend
'Cause high noon, your doom
Comin' for you we're the cowboys from hell
Dec 09, 2004 01:34 pm should we just go round and round all day, or just stop now?
I say we stop now and leave it alone.
I am not trying to belittle the loss of a great guitar player and a heavy metal legend, what I am trying to do is call attention to artists maybe think about more the messages they are sending and the influence it may have on the people listening to it...nothing more, it IS worthy of consideration.
Dec 09, 2004 01:58 pm I said you are correct. I'm not continuing this. I only posted the lyrics as a tribute to him and how haunting those lyrics are to this situation.
Dec 09, 2004 03:21 pm does anyone ever really consider the idea that we would be a lot worse off, with even more violence and such, if we were more repressed as a society than we are? singing about violent acts instead of committing them is a form of exorcising the demons sometimes i'm sure.
Dec 09, 2004 03:24 pm It's not necessarily the people singing about, it's also the people listening to it, and often people that admire them and take their words, opinion and such very seriously...
Personally, I like playing shoot-em up video games, lifting weights or running on the treadmill to release stress, we all do it different ways.
As a whole tho, I agree, healthy agression release is needed in this world that is WAY too fast paced...I think the whole world would be better off to slow down a bit...
Dec 09, 2004 03:43 pm "It's not necessarily the people singing about, it's also the people listening to it, and often people that admire them and take their words, opinion and such very seriously..."
i think this is a problem--a very specific one that takes too long to go into--that relates very much to the way our society is set up, maybe not to the contents of its "public mind." the same thing you are saying about music, db, has been said about shoot-em-up video games.
this world is too fast-paced. thats the thing i was saying it takes too long to go into. the pace of the world, the amount of effort it takes just to feel "ok" about things financially, and the way that constant stress takes the focus off the family and personal relationships---gah! there is no rest. that is the pressure cooker. where's the time when it all stops and people come together and can drop the stress and strain? some people don't have that at all, and it's essential to well being. essential. i think the violence springs a lot from this: young men, very alone in the world, breeding anger out of thier thwarted ego-needs. that is a societal problem.
Dec 09, 2004 03:47 pm agreed, but beyond that it's also an issue of personal accountability.
Yep, video games, dungeons and dragons, when I was young it was Kiss and Black Sabbath, later Ozzy Osbourne, if it's enjoyable it'll send you straight to hell.
Ultimately, I think most of the issues come down to your upbringing and how you are taught to act and react...assuming your parent taught you anything, which is another societal problem, too many lame parents...
Dec 09, 2004 03:51 pm man, just a big loss of a guitar player there period that will hit the music world... My friends in the local band Mowtown Rage were actually on the bill to play with Damage Plan tonight at the Machine Shop over in Flint, MI also and they were personal friends with Pantera.... not to mention I just got word earlier today that one of my younger brothers friends committed suicide by jumping off of a mountain out in california.
Messed up day.... bleh...
Dec 09, 2004 03:52 pm oh, dude, I'm so sorry to hear that, my deepest sympathies to his family and friends, that just...argh...suicide confuses me.
Dec 09, 2004 04:08 pm Thanks DB, yeah I think the dude was a little messed up in the head and had a lot of messed up stuff going on in his life.... thing is that suicide should never be the answer....
Dec 09, 2004 04:08 pm aggh, i too am sorry to hear that. it's hard to even imagine things like that, the family, etc.
Dec 09, 2004 04:11 pm yeah, I really gotta get to my bro and tell him that its not his fault... him and this guy that committed suicide had a falling out several months ago, and in the guys suicide note he said that he didn't have any friends and my bro thinks that he could have done something to help now... *rolls eyes* sounds like to me that the guy alienated all of his friends caus he was pretty popular according to my bro. *shrugs* supposedly he was wanted by the law and what not also for some messed up stuff...
Dec 09, 2004 04:11 pm I had a childhood friend of mine kill himself last new years eve. He had a rough couple years, it was very sad, still hurts to think about.
I agree tho, killing yourself is never it. I have been pretty friggin down and out a couple of times, but I can't relate, I have never personally saw suicide as an answer...I just don't understand it. Very sad.
And the person left with guilt about it the biggest victim, nobody killed him but him, I hope your brother can understand that thru the grief.
Dec 09, 2004 04:13 pm yeah, I hear ya DB. I think we all have been down and out at one point or another, but its only us that can change our path in life and look for a better road to take ya know. Everyone has choices....
Dec 09, 2004 04:13 pm Sorry to hear about your childhood friend also man. Had that one happen before sort of also when a best friend got messed up when I was 16 and was killed in a car accident...
Dec 09, 2004 04:16 pm yep, too many people take the wrong one, but I guess it's the easiest, just be done with it.
I remember many years ago my "best friend" (whom I haven't seen in 10+ years now) was dating a girl, got hung up with some other chick, got busted by the first chick and, well, he was busted cold.
He came over, we were talking and and stuff and he mentioned he felt like killing himself. I remember, while maybe not being the most sensitive thing to say, I kinda laughed and said something like "over a chick?"
I dunno, it's just hard to relate to that kind of thinking, people are weird.
I've been pretty surrounded by death, most everyone from my early adulthood is is dead or in prison, I guess I am sort of used to stuff like that happening.
Dec 09, 2004 06:02 pm Hate to hear that riffgod and dB.
My uncle also killed himself a while back. He came home to find a note from his wife, she was leaving him. Went outside and put a shotgun in his mouth. What made it worse was my Granny, his mother, hearing the gun shot from across the road, came over there and found him.
Suicide is never the answer. Talk to someone and get help because suicide is not the way. There is more to life then anything in this world can offer. It's sad when people think there is no way out.
Sorry for bringing the forum down, just been on my mind lately too.
Dec 09, 2004 06:21 pm vdalehubbard,
Don't think for a minute that you brought this thread down man. Suicide needs to be talked about. I know, I've gone through a deep depression after my grandfather died. People need to release emotions and if you don't you go on a killing spree much like this person did at this concert.
That's why I think that most hard rock and metal is snubbed and thought of as adolescent music. They sing about the things other people don't and won't talk about and some people cannot grasp that. Life isn't some fairy tale and you close the book. Talking about this stuff is good! Expressing yourself is good and it shouldn't be harmful to you or others.
Being a metal head, I can't say I worshiped Dimebag or worship anyone for that matter but the guy made an impact and loved life. He did what most people only dream about and wasn't in any way letting it go to his head. I really cannot explain why I feel such remorse and sadness for someone I didn't even know or talk with. But I do and needed to talk so thanks for listening.
Dec 09, 2004 06:33 pm Yeah know, it this exact sort of thing that prompted flame to start www.artistswithissues.org I want to encourage anyone needing a helping hand, or words of support, to visit that site, it's new, but it's needed, it's a great idea and I was glad to play a part in getting it started.
Dec 09, 2004 08:07 pm Being that this occured in my home town I suppose I should comment :)
I've never played the alrosia villa though I've had some friends open for some acts there. It looks like a dump but it's the best venue that unsigned artists can get in here in columbus. However it's prone to violence... I think this is the 3rd or 4th shooting there this year... though most take it outside :p
I saw the interview of the shooters band..or prior band (they wern't exactly clear) but the guy was somehow deeply affected by pantaras demise to the point of trying to start a band (band being interviewed) useing pantara material and claiming it as his own.
As such I don't think this really involes encouragement of violence but dissociative personality issues that could happen to any band.
He was basically a stalker.
Dec 10, 2004 07:38 am Violence is not new in America or the world for that matter. The problem is that people use music, movies or even religion as an excuse to kill. There really is nothing to talk about with music glorifying violence. It is glorified everyday from any one of different places. It is unfortunate for his family, friends and heavy metal that this happened. I listen to Pantera and I'm about as clean cut as they come. The band breaking up did nothing to upset me. I'm also an Acid Bath fan. But I will not go out on a shooting spree at a Goatwhore show (awful band by the way) because Acid Bath is no more. It doesn't make any sense and it probably never will.
I wish all the the family and friends of Darrel the best. He will be missed.
Dec 10, 2004 09:08 am This is insane, what a pathetic effed up world we live in.
Rest in peace Darrell Abbott, we will miss you.
Dec 10, 2004 03:27 pm I can't stop thinking about this, I have less and less faith in humanity every day.
Thought maybe I'd share my Pantera story in an effort to vent a little bit.
Me and a few buddies went to see Pantera at Copps coliseum in Hamilton, Ontario years back. It was supposed to be the deftones opening, then Pantera, with White Zombie as the headliner. We went to see Pantera, couldn't care less about the other bands (not to slag them, we're just crazy guitar players who wanted to see dimebag do his thing).
So we show up a little late and it's intermission, when the curtain went up and we saw White Zombie I freaked out, we thought maybe Pantera's set was so short that we missed it. But Rob Zombie sings the first tune and then tells us he's not feeling to good and that they were only going to play a short set and then let Pantera close.
Pantera goes through their regular set for the tour which was maybe 45 minutes and then started jamming on different things to stretch it out a bit, they played some Slayer with Phil playing guitar and they even whipped out some old Van Halen and Cream. They even had some roadie come out and do shots with them. They played for almost two and a half hours by the time it was all over.
I have no idea how much of that was just spur of the moment or if they did that at other shows as headliners but that show in Hamilton was a very pleasant suprise and I'll never forget it.
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