Regarding: "Rap- the death of music"
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Posted on Dec 20, 2005 08:19 am
Gog
Member Since: Dec 20, 2005
This was a response posted to the "Music Genre and Composition Theory" article. (over here....)
www.homerecordingconnecti...&id=396#q69
While I respect Mr. Reuben's opinion I would encourage him to think outside his box (sorry, cliche inevitable). There are thousands of rap/hip-hop acts out there that are more true to the culture they are meant to represent. This is an issue that has been brought to my attention fairly recently. Like finding any artists you like --or like finding a good relationship-- it helps tremendously to avoid such generalizations (e.g., all women are sluts; all rap is about sex and violence; all men are ********; all x's are y's; etc.). Like the article implied, it's healthy to approach your music listening habits with an open heart and a more objective mind.
Thank you for reading.
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Dec 20, 2005 08:28 am While I agree to your statement (welcome to HRC by the way), I also agree with some of what that article said. There is not much in this world that is "all" or "nothing", and generalization and stereotypes can be harmful, but also, they often exist for a reason. There is almost always some shred of truth to any stereotype...but again, nothing is 100%.
The majority of hiphop and rap that I see or hear about (that being the key) has been so heavily promoting a negative, self-destructive culture, I can't help but hope my kids don't start listening to it. At the same time, much of popular music as a whole promotes that same self-destructive lifestyle.
This was recently shown during the opening of fiddy cents movie "Get Rich or Die Trying" (which is a stupid message to send in the first place) which ended in a shooting outside the theatre over a disagreement that happened in the theatre.
When THAT is the type of imagery that people not directly in that culture see, what do you really expect people to think? I really find it hard to blame people for feeling the way they do when that is the message and images that the music sends.
Dec 20, 2005 08:30 am Dude, I just read your profile...Medford, Cottage Grove? Are you a Minnesota boy or are there those two towns close in proximity elsewhere?
GogMember
Since: Dec 20, 2005
Dec 20, 2005 08:41 am Agreed.... and agreed... Much of the ***** I hear lately is that what you see/hear in the pop culture is contrary to what was originally intended. I'm still learning about this aspect of it, myself. But that's the beauty of "underground" music in any genre versus their pop counterparts. And I believe it applys to rap as well as avant moog synth polka...
Medford/CG, Oregon. I haven't even been outside the West Coast! Someday, though..... someday....
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Dec 20, 2005 07:18 pm Avant moog synth Polka, that was me. :-)
Welcome to HRC as well. Interesting bio by the way.
Flashmannot the brightest spark...Member
Since: Sep 13, 2005
Dec 20, 2005 08:48 pm Rap? I heard that Bob Dyaln's subterranean homesick blues is the first ever song featuring vocals that could be described as 'rap'. I'm sure there are some blues singers somewhere who did it before him though.
'Rap!' It's a bit like a hip hop producer saying 'rock! ha. what has that got to teach us!'. Take a look at the Neptunes. Wow!. There are some great pieces of urban poetry out there that aren't all about 9mm Pistols. Besides is music not in some way a reflection of the life of the person who makes it?
I hear a lot of people who don't get the opportunity to become exposed to a wide variety of 'underground' music talk about 'rap' and how terrible a force it is. I think they must be referring to some of the heavier gangsta/pop stuff which can be quite lyrically intimidating. Db is right but the pop phenomenon in general is to blame for a decline in morality and musicality not the individual artist. People are still ignorant enough to eat the dirge that is fed to them on the pink spoon of death.
Saying that rap is rubbish is like saying that paint is a horrible colour. There's a lot more too it.
Also, (and I know I'm terribly long winded)it should be remembered that no matter what young people listen to, that they listen not just because of exposure and impressionability but also because there is a part of them that feels drawn to it. Fifties kids felt drawn to rock n roll and apparently that should have been banned too....
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Dec 20, 2005 09:19 pm I had some similar conversations about this with people today. Being a rap artist that does not engage in violent or overly sexualized lyrical content, I feel that I have to educate lots of people that rap or better yet Hip Hop is a broad universe and does not only exist in the gangsta realm. However, this is what most people see (thank you very much major labels), and what most people expect when you tell them you rap.
I was trying to describe compression to one of my coworkers, and we were discussing attack and release times. Somewhere in there he said, "I'm sure you're just saying something like 'Biiiiitch'". I was taken aback and kind of offended, since I can't remember a single time I've ever said the word ***** in a rap song. I had to let him know that that is not the kind of music that I make, and that there are a lot (I mean a lot) of artists that don't make that kind of music, but still make very quality Hip Hop. If you want to find some listen to my internet radio show...www.radioindierock.com/bace135.html
Quote:
This was recently shown during the opening of fiddy cents movie "Get Rich or Die Trying" (which is a stupid message to send in the first place) which ended in a shooting outside the theatre over a disagreement that happened in the theatre.
In all honesty, I don't really think that association is even relevant. Convenient, yes, for those that want to point at rap negatively, but neither the movie, nor the music made the perpetrator pull the trigger. Lets find out all the details about what happened. The only thing I'll say about the movie, is that it likely drew some shady elements to the screening. But that doesn't make it responsible for the crime.
But yes you are right. The majority that you probably hear about, if you hear what is played on the radio, is pretty negative. I blame this on the corporate media (clear channel) and the large record labels, that consistently try to homogenize and pigeon hole Hip Hop into one image and a negative one at that. Too bad, that is not the whole truth.
Dec 20, 2005 09:32 pm Actually, thanks coolo, you sort of helped me prove my point. You do recognize that, thanks to the media, that is what people associate rap and hiphop with. I would never be so ignorant as to think that they are ALL this way, but, that is the image portrayed in the media at large, so it should be very understandable why people get that stereotype.
And you are correct, that whole fiddy cent movie isn't "responsible" in the truest sense of the word for that ignorant action, however, we can all attest to how music that speaks to us, whatever type it may be, does achieve a deep emotional response in the listener...be it mellow and relaxing, or hostile and violent. Add to that a visual of the movie to add to the emotional impact, well, you can see where I am going.
Obviously nobody but the criminal is truly responsible...but the messages sent surely can't help...
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Dec 20, 2005 09:49 pm Quote:
Actually, thanks coolo, you sort of helped me prove my point. You do recognize that, thanks to the media, that is what people associate rap and hiphop with. I would never be so ignorant as to think that they are ALL this way, but, that is the image portrayed in the media at large, so it should be very understandable why people get that stereotype.
I fully understand where you're coming from. I do realize that Hip Hop and Rap music, for the most part, in the public eye, in it's popular form, is only represented in a negative light. The negative side is what most people see if they are lazy and don't take the time to look for the good stuff. I realize this.
But you also have to realize that it is very frustrating for me to have to deal with these negative portrayals, and thereby perceptions of something I am very attached to, and involved in. Everytime I have to educate/enlighten/propagandize someone about the other dimensions of Hip Hop, it's like I have to validate myself, or protest my innocence, because people already make assumptions about what my music is like. Or even what kind of music I like and the reflection that makes on me.
"you like hip hop" - gives me shady look
Dec 21, 2005 05:58 am Let's see a few year back I had hair half way down my ***, tattoos covering my upper arms and earrings and stuff...no, I have no idea what you mean by being unjustly stereotyped... ;-)
Dec 21, 2005 12:22 pm Being that I still enjoy listening to rap every once in a while, I'll leave my comments. Throw them back in my face or not... I don't care. I believe your stereotypical rap artist (who is in the limelight) feels the need to be a badass and "tough" and walk the walk and talk the talk that was previously established by the original rap/gangsters, who were actually gangsters... to a point (I'll use Tupac as an example). If the rap artist isn't tough and cool, then the wannabee gangsters running around in their cadillacs with air suspensions and 20" spinners wouldn't listen to them because they'd be aligning themselves with a weakling and would be harming their "tough guy" image. Obviously the wannabees have something to prove.
The tough guy can't be listening to bumpin music that talks about how good life is. They have to listen to music that talks about how cool they are that they do horrible things to people and smack my bh up and stuff like that. Sort of a pep rally or something?
I think of an exception to the rule: Will Smith. Though some would say he's hip hop, others would argue that. But he raps in some of his songs, so I'm going to call him a rap artist. He's got a family, avoids any sort of profanity in his music, he's a successful actor. Basically the living american dream. But do the wannabees listen to Will Smith? No. Why? Because he's not a badass.
Most deaths associated with rappers and stuff are because somebody had something to prove so they would have approval from some "approval groupies" or something. A pointless way to live life, in my opinion.
When I meet a gangster who also listens to country music at loud volumes, then I'll know I've met a badass and not a wannabee.
Dec 21, 2005 12:28 pm I am having flashbacks to the movie "Malibu's most wanted" funny as hell regarding wannabes and badasses...
I have a lot of respect for Will Smith, he has a lousy taste in women, but I will look past that. He's a stand up guy, a seemingly good person (never met him though) and doesn't bow down to presure of an industry, he does what he does, he does it well and he is rewarded for it.
The first part of your story just proves how stupid people are and how image driven people can be. Do what you enjoy, if people can't deal with it, f'em.
Dec 21, 2005 01:46 pm Don be hatin. =)
Dec 21, 2005 01:48 pm I'm a hater...
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Dec 21, 2005 04:28 pm heh I remember when Will Smith cussed in songs... particularly "You saw my blinker *****!" :) those were the days...days everyone tries hard to forget...
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Dec 21, 2005 11:08 pm Ya but when Will did it he was using it witha bit of humor injected.
GogMember
Since: Dec 20, 2005
Dec 22, 2005 07:57 am A couple other good examples of mainstream Rap/Hip-Hop breaking the mold: Digital Underground and Arrested Development. Profanity and some other issues aside, it wasn't so much about the glamour or the images (not saying it wasn't at all), nor was it always necessarily always optimistic. Most of DU's stuff got some good chuckles, and AD's stuff usually had something constructive to say, too. Both usually made really great, funky songs that invited a diversity of listeners.
Heh.... Will Smith... To this day I still think of that poor old lady who supposedly saw his blinker........ Also my "He's the DJ, I'm the Rapper" tape from the late 80's still survives and I still listen to it!
Dec 22, 2005 10:43 am This whole topic really falls under the same topic as any stereotype/prejudice...no matter what the religion, race, style or general grouping you ever talk about, it's always judged by outsides according to the worst examples that group has to offer...
Religions are judged by the radicals that the religion doesn't even condone...races are judged by the examples of their race that make the news for commiting crimes, music genre's are judged by the ones with the most shock value...
It's unfair, but, well, life ain't fair...
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Dec 22, 2005 10:49 am I'd also add that the consumers have a large part to play. Certainly not all of it, but if people didn't buy stuff that glorified violence in music, then the marketing groups (and the media) wouldn't push it out there.
Certainly the media sells what they want to sell, but the consumers have their part in this too. It's not just the marketing groups fault.
It's a capalist society, and if prod 'A' sells more than prod 'B', then the marketing groups will focus on more of prod 'A'.
Dec 22, 2005 10:50 am very true.
bangbangmofoThecalmlittlecenteroftheuniverseMember
Since: Dec 04, 2005
Dec 30, 2005 02:17 pm has anyone talked about the streets yet?
ok if nobody knows who the streets is
offbeat* british white boy hip hop
and its absolutely amazing
*in both senses of the word.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Dec 30, 2005 10:04 pm Yes, Tuna my son has been listening to the streets since they hit the stretts, (pun intended). I have listened to alot of their stuff as well. Reminds me a bit of Tricky to be honest, the feel and flow of it anyway.
