I'm buying a 12-string - any tips
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Posted on Jul 25, 2007 01:33 pm
BeerHunter
www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member Since: Feb 07, 2005
Hey all,
I'm heading down to Tacoma this weekend and I'm going to buy a 12-string acoustic. Our dollar is almost par with the US dollar right now so there are some good deals to be found. 12-strings up here are almost twice the price.
I'm interested in this one but I'm wondering what I should be watching out for when I'm selecting one.
www.guitarcenter.com/shop...ku=517575%2e010
I know that GC doensn't have the best reputation so if there is another place to purchase I would probably buy it from them instead. ZZSounds won't work for me because I want to be able to play it before buying.
Does anyone know of a good music shop to buy from in the Seatlle/Tacoma area?
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TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Jul 25, 2007 03:50 pm I have yet to hear a Fender acoustic that I liked. I've never heard one of their 12 strings, but I have a general dislike for Fender acoustics. They all seem boxy and cardboard-sounding to me.
The good part is that since you're going to shop in person and not on the internet, you can judge for yourself. Just play everything you can get your hands on, then the decision will probably make itself when the time comes.
Good luck!
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jul 25, 2007 03:59 pm Yup, shopping online for this sort of thing sucks. I will have a few days to shop so I should be able to try out quite a few before deciding. Thanks for the headups. I've never played a Fender acoustic so I don't know what to expect.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Jul 25, 2007 04:10 pm Oh well that's awesome that it's not just a day trip. There's always the pressure to pick something before you go. Now you can at least sleep on it before pulling the trigger.
Its strange...for all of the opinions I've gathered on acoustic guitars, I can't say that I've heard much about preferences or trends for 12-strings. I'd probably better just shut my mouth :)
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jul 25, 2007 04:17 pm I hear ya... 12-strings are not well spoken of. However, we have had a need for a 12-string on the occasional piece and you simply can't (IMO) replace that sound of a mic'd up 12-string.
I'm sure that this lack of interest has driven the price down however as you can pick them up (even good ones) for cheap.
Jul 25, 2007 04:26 pm Hell, I love 12-strings, I just don't have enough of a valid opinion or knowledge base to speak with any authority at all...
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jul 25, 2007 04:29 pm I picked up a taylor 454ce to replace my punky crap one that burned in the fire.
I bought it unseen from sweetwater, and have not regretted it one bit.
I find myself having more fun playing this than I do playing my j50.
Although, their price is not in the range of the fender 12, but i just figured i'd throw that out there =).
I know somebody that has a fender 12 string from either the late 70s or early 80s, and it's a great sounding guitar. A little hard to play, but the sound is very nice. Different than my taylor, but very nice overall.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jul 25, 2007 04:37 pm Can't say that I'm expecting it to sound like a Taylor but I'm hoping it at least will sound ok. I have a small $350 budget so no Taylors or Martins.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Jul 25, 2007 05:25 pm That's a tough budget for a 12-string. In doing a bit of online browsing, I see that Yamaha, Washburn and Alvarez all offer 12-strings in your price range, all right around that $350 mark. For entry-level acoustic guitars, I love all 3 of those brands. I wouldn't balk at any of those 3 in that price range.
Jul 25, 2007 08:02 pm i've been hugely impressed with a brand called "Jay Turser" www.jayturserguitars.com/
workin' at my parents shop, they were the best 'entry level' brand i've ever seen...everything we got from them was awesome quality on the cheap.
they beat out entry-level epiphone, squire, american, and even dean's cheapest.
which brings me to my next point...
DEAN makes killer acoustics! who'da thunk it? if you have the extra cash, i'd go for a dean.
Jul 25, 2007 08:45 pm i have a nagoya 12 string that i bought for 125 dollars at this pawn shop. it's got awesome action and tone for a twelve, best one i've ever played. never seen anything else from the company though. don't buy takanime-they're super bright as it is, too much as a 12. i learned on a yamaha 12 that i picked up for 50 bucks from an acquaintance at work. high action, thick neck, wonderful, deep sound. hard as hell to play though, surprised i didn't quit. i've always had good experience w/ fenders, actually, though both i've owned haven't exactly been off the floor models either. i don't like buying guitars in the shop-can ya tell? anywho, i'd go with the alvarez. i traded the graphite martin that was the only one i ever bought in gc for my alvarez. look for just enough space between strings to be comfortable, low action and minimal space btwn the two strings together-if there's too much the strings will pinch you eventually, and it makes switching any style to the 12 harder. for a recording instrument, make sure it's not too bright sounding and also look for smaller body style. i would stay away from ovation as well as takanimie cause they're bright as **** too.hope this helps
peace.
jen
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Jul 26, 2007 12:29 am I'd also suggest getting a friend or a salesman to play it for you so you can stand back and hear it. You can get some nice sounding stuff from alvarez... or it can be total crap... each guitar is different. :)
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jul 26, 2007 10:23 am Thanks everyone for the great info.
WYD - I can't afford the cash for a Dean. I'm stretching my budget as it is even coming up with $350. The holiday itself is going to eat up some of my cash.
Jen- great tips on the string spacing and such - thx
zek - I will have my wife with me when I buy so she can help by listening and such. Cool idea though cause I know that you don't hear the real voice of the guitar from behind the body.
tad - hopefully the dudes at GC have a variety of 12's in my price range. I'd like to try out a Washburn and the Alvarez. I have a Yamaha 6-string acoustic right now and I'm pleased with it but I don't have that "love" thing going on with it so I probably won't go for another Yamaha.
Cheers all!
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Jul 26, 2007 04:51 pm The Washburn's are nice. I think Washburn is a great manufacturer.
I once had a lovely Shaftsbury (cheap) 12er. The bridge pulled through the body somehow after being in storage (possibly a combination of humidity and string gauge). Sounded great. Have a look at Seagull (hey, they're Canadian...). Nice stuff, and quite affordable.
Keep an eye out for cheap tuners (you'll thank me later) as 12ers are a bugger to tune. Also there are some you might see (not sure if it still happens...) where the fret markers are offset to allow for playing detuned with a capo (less string tension). Guild make pretty ones, but the prices are not where you are.
By the way I have a white painted Fender (Korea or something) acoustic that sounds lovely. Quiet, but nice sounding. I buy with my ears.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jul 26, 2007 05:20 pm I love the Seagulls but round here they start at $650 and while it is a great bargain on a quality instrument it is unfortunately too much for me to dish out on one right now.
I'll be picking one up in a couple of days and now armed with some great HRC knowledge, I think I will come out of it ok.
Cheers
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jul 26, 2007 06:06 pm I'll toss this in as well. I have owned about 8 twelve strings through out my life. My favorite was a 1974 Alverez Yari. I don't remember the exact model number but it was probably the sweetest one I had ever owned. Wish I still owned it. I sold it around 89 or 90. It had a huge sound to it. I think the only other 12 that I ever played that came close was a Taylor, but it was also an $1800.00 guitar and I would never put that much out on a guitar since it isn't my main instrument.
From the newer Alverez guitars I have played I think they still make their guitars with the same care as they did back then. I am sure the cheaper models lack what the mid and upper range have but still are good sounding guitars.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jul 26, 2007 06:11 pm You know the really sad thing is that I must have played at least 20 different 12-strings at the NAMM show and I couldn't tell the difference between any of them. Sure the looks and feel I could tell a difference but it's so noisy there that I couldn't "hear" the difference. NAMM show is just not the right place to shop for a guitar... surprisingly.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jul 28, 2007 09:28 pm Well Guitar Center (Tacoma) didn't have a Fender. Actually they didn't have a Fender, Washburn, Alvarez or even an Ibanez. All they had was a Taylor, Martin (ouch - $'s) a Mitchell and couple of other low end 12-string guitars.... so as fate has it I ended up getting the guitar I've been drooling over for quite some time (about 2 years)... a Seagull S12. Yup went the extra distance and got the one I wanted in the first place. I guess that will teach me for trying to cheap out when all along I knew I wanted a Seagull.
Here's one for ya. Why can I buy a Canadian made guitar in the US for cheaper than I can buy it in Canada? I bought it for $439 and in Canada they are $659!!
Sweet! I love it!
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Jul 28, 2007 10:15 pm Horray for the Seagull! I think you made a great choice. I hear a lot of good things about that brand. I've always wanted to play one to see what the fuss is about.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jul 28, 2007 11:05 pm Tad, I think a big part of the Seagull thing is that they weren't always the greatest. They have had to shake a crappy reputation. In the last say, 5 years (maybe 10) they have turned everything around and now make (IMO) guitars that will compete with any Martin or Taylor. They each have their own characteristics however but there is quite a price difference.
We will be tracking the new tunes that we have been working on with the 12-string. I'll post them sometime later in the week so you can hear it in action.
Man, my finger are already sore. 12-strings are a whole new world for me.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jul 31, 2007 08:24 pm BH, congrats on the Seagull. Indeed they were black balled for a long time for charging a pretty heavy price for a very cheaply built guitar. But as stated they are now at the top of their game.
5 years ago you could go into any pawnshop and buy one so cheap. And I have to admit that one out of maybe 50 or so would sound stellar.
As for the sore fingers, When I still played a lot of guitar I used one of those finger spring things and it worked pretty well. I think I have a Pecturci video that has some good exercises in it if I can find it.
Aug 01, 2007 12:10 pm noize, not so sure it's the hand strength as much as the revising and deepening of calluses. you can burn your fingertips to speed it along, but ad long as you play your 12 30 minutes a day, you don't need too.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Aug 01, 2007 12:35 pm Oh yeah, the labor of love, playing a 12.
I justify buying a spendy guitar by looking at the numbers:
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Aug 01, 2007 04:24 pm Quote:
NAMM show is just not the right place to shop for a guitar... surprisingly.
Nope, it's a good place to buy 800 guitars to sell off...Not the place to go for a single guitar.
Glad you went with the Seagull. If I were not getting a custom guitar built for me (...update: spoke to friend/luthier - "Yeah, I've been giving it a lot of thought...." - It might be a while...) I'd probably be getting one of their upscale models.
As for callousing (revising and deepening...I like it!), it's something that comes with time. I pull out my Mandola/Irish Bouzouki/Octave Mandolin thing occasionally, and then spend the evening wondering where the tramlines in my fingers came from. I do wish I still had a 12er, though. Good sound.
Congrats on the new [Canadian] guitar!
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Aug 04, 2007 04:15 am Here she is. Doesn't have a name yet but she has a home.
glnflwrsHead KnockerContributor
Since: May 20, 2007
Aug 04, 2007 04:28 am Whoa! She's beeeautiful!!
I've found that a sandpad used to sharpen pencil points is a good way to help keep callouses tough and not cracking. I sand my tips anytime the callous shows an outline or starts to crack.
Go to a drafting/stationery store. The paper is pretty fine and it has about 50 sheets on each one, and is small as a comb. ($2 - $3)
Aug 04, 2007 04:46 am [quote]Quote:
NAMM show is just not the right place to shop for a guitar... surprisingly.
Nope, it's a good place to buy 800 guitars to sell off...[/quote]
he's right, we go to NAMM and offer to buy the whole booth for cheap...they don't have to ship it back...it's a win/win deal.
as for sanding and burning the fingertips in the name of 'love'....i donno....i 'earn' my callous's....i'm a bass player.
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Aug 15, 2007 11:49 am Quote:
.i 'earn' my callous's....i'm a bass player.
Love it!
Pretty 12er there BH. Nice stuff. Congrats.
glnflwrsHead KnockerContributor
Since: May 20, 2007
Aug 15, 2007 08:17 pm WYD,
I'm a bass player too, but I wasn't always. When I was playing acoustic a lot back in the days, I had callouses that got so thick they would split open occasionally. Believe me, that will put a major kink in your style.
I used the sandpad (300 grit) to keep the callouses from getting that thick. I'd notice small lines appearing perpendicular to my fingerprints and I'd sand just till they disappeared. If you've never had a callous split, pray you don't. It is painful. (But I'm a wimp so whatta' ya' expect? Hehehe...)
Aug 16, 2007 05:13 am nah, i havn't but i've swiched to flatwounds (i play a fretless that's wearing away, and can't afford a new coat of some kinda poly-bla-bla stuf....now i love them, and my bass is happy too. but the callouses don't take such a 'sever' beating as they used to with a .140 B roundwound ribbed bridge cable on it.
Aug 17, 2007 03:55 pm BH,
nice choice. I've been thinking of replacing my 20 yr old yamaki custom with something from seagul. Only thing that has sounded close to the old one was a martin, but I ain't got th $$$$. I can't explain why the Seagul would be cheaper in the states. Maybe GC buys them in Volume and gets a decent discount. That's all I can think of.
As for Ovation, that tone is pretty distinctive, almost plastic sounding. Maybe I've only heard the Cheap ones, but not a fan of that tone at all.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Aug 17, 2007 04:16 pm Ya, I'm pretty sure it is GC's buying power vs the fact that we don't have any mega stores that carry Seagulls. Only small mom and pop shops carry them here.
I've been on this quest for about 2 years now and IMO Seagull is right up there in terms of quality and sound.
Aug 17, 2007 05:47 pm You must be in my Hood BH, but I've seen them at Tom Lee!!!!!
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Aug 17, 2007 05:52 pm Ya, Tom Lee has 6-string Seagulls (as of yesterday) but they (Surrey store) would have had to order the 12-string and it was going to cost me more.
Aug 17, 2007 06:34 pm I don't venture out to that hood very often. I don't recall if they had a 12 in the mix. I'm sure downtown would have atleast 1
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Aug 17, 2007 06:44 pm Ya,I haven't really been able to get into Tom Lee downtown for quite awhile. Last time I was there I just about walked out with a Martin so my wife has banned me (not quite, but almost) from going there.
jmailjimmie neutronMember
Since: Feb 14, 2005
Aug 20, 2007 10:30 am I'm late to the discussion, but another idea when you're recording for that 12-string sound is to use 2 guitars. One, a regular 6-string. The 2nd, a regular 6-stringer, but that you've strung with the upper strings of a 12-string set... *IF* you can play the part cleanly 2 or 3 times, do 2 regular guitar parts panned somewhat left & right, and do the high-strung one somewhat down the middle.
A bit of advice concerning 12-string guitars is to tune them down a whole step all the way across (D-G-C-F-A-D) and use a clamp to get to where you want. That way, there's not quite as much stress on the bridge assembly of the guitar top... Some folks just go down 1/2 step on the tuning.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Aug 20, 2007 10:37 am Hey jmail, havn't seen you around in awhile. Good to see you back.
Thanks for the tips. It is actaully tuned down 1/2 step as I've heard your recommendation before. All of our guitars are tuned down for our jam nights just so it is easier to sing cover tunes and such. We do use standard tuning when we record our own stuff however.
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Aug 20, 2007 11:01 am Jmail's things about the 6er with the octave strings can be heard on nearly every Tom Petty album. Sounds good.
Quote:
Last time I was there I just about walked out with a Martin so my wife has banned me (not quite, but almost) from going there.
Why does that scenario seem familiar?...
