Nov 12, 2005 10:22 am I've never understood suicide. I'll likely never understand it. How could he leave a family behind?
Kurt Cobain's Suicide Note
Posted on Nov 11, 2005 09:37 pm
ciinx
Member Since: May 15, 2004
Maybe some of you have got it but I just read it. Entertainer aye..Here it goes...
Speakings from the tongue of an experienced simpleton who obviously would rather be an emasculated, infantile complainee. This note should be pretty easy to understand.
All the warnings from the Punk Rock 101 Courses over the years, it's my first introduction to the, shall we say ethics involved with independence and the embracement of your community has been proven to be very true. I haven't felt the excitement of listening to, as well as creating music, along with really writing something for too many years now. I feel guilty beyond words about these things, for example when we're backstage and the lights go out and the manic roar of the crowd begins.
It doesn't affect me in the way which it did for Freddie Mercury, whoseemed to love and relish the love and admiration from the crowd, which is something I totally admire and envy. The fact is, I can't fool you, any of you. It simply isn't fair to you, or to me. The worst crime can think of would be to pull people off by faking it, pretending as if I'm having one 100% fun. Sometimes I feel as though I should have a punch-in time clock before I walk out on-stage. I've tried everything within my power to appreciate it, and I do, God believe me, I do, but it's not enough.
I appreciate the fact that I, and we, have affected, and entertained a lot of people. I must be one of the narcisists who only appreciate things when they're alone. I'm too sensitive, I need to be slightly numb in order to regain the enthusiasm.But, what's sad is our child. On our last three tours, I've had a much betterappreciation of all the people I've known personally, and as fans of our music. But I still can't get out the frustration, the guilt, and the sympathy I have for everybody. There is good in all of us, and I simply love people too much. So much that it makes me feel too ******* sad. The sad little sensitive unappreciative pisces Jesus man! why don't you just enjoy it? I dont know!
I have a wide who sweats ambition and empathy, and a daughter who reminds me to much of what I use to be. full of love and joy, every person she meets because everyone is good and will do her no harm. And that terrifies me to the point to where I can barely function. I can't stand the thought of Frances becoming the miserable self destructive, deathrocker she become. I have it good, very good, and I'm grateful, but since the age of seven, I've become hateful towards all humans in general. Only because it seems so easy for people to get along and have empathy. Empathy only because I love and feel for people too much I guess.
Thank you from the pit of my burning nauseas stomach for your letters and concern during the last years. I'm too much of a neurotic moody person and I don't have the passion anymore, so remember, it's better to burn out, than to fade away.
Peace, love, empathy,
Kurt Cobain.
Frances and Courtney, I'll be at your altar. Please keep going Courtney for Frances for her life which will be so much happier without me. I LOVE YOU. I LOVE YOU!
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Nov 12, 2005 10:22 am I've never understood suicide. I'll likely never understand it. How could he leave a family behind?
Nov 12, 2005 10:24 am So, what is the merit in this topic? The dude was sick and tormented, I take no pleasure in reading about it...
Nov 12, 2005 11:02 am Must admit...couldn't read it myself...just scrolled down to see what others wrote.
I read Cobain's biography "Heavier than Heaven". Awesome book. Great look into the life of one messed up Mo-Fo.
I had never even heard any Nirvana before reading the book. Now "Nevermind" is one of my all-time favorite albums. Too bad it had to come from such a "sick and tormented" mind, as dB put it.
Nov 12, 2005 11:08 am I love Nirvana, I love Kurt's music, always have, always will, but I won't get in to the whole "life and death" thing.
I am still personally unsure of whether or not his "sick and tormented soul" was real or a well orchestrated stunt...
Nov 12, 2005 11:58 am I haven't alot of patients for people who are into being defeated by their 'issues', completely oblivious to the loving support-structure they have created around them .
GO... get off the earth, there are people fighting cancer/poverty/lonelyness just to live one more day... nice music, don't let the door hit you in the *** .
Nov 12, 2005 12:01 pm Yeah, some people are very prone to saying "I can't" very quickly...
Nov 12, 2005 01:13 pm Which is very sad indeed.
Nov 12, 2005 02:14 pm A famous lyric to a song once stated, Quote:
Suicide is painless. Maybe to the individual commiting the act. But definately not to those who surround him. Including family, friends, and in Kurts case, the millions of fans who put him up on that pedestal.
Nuf said, to me it was senselss and a waste. Nirvana's music was and still is inspiring. But his taking of his own life is nothing more then stupidity!
Nov 12, 2005 02:18 pm I always wondered why they used that song as the MASH tune ?... OH and that hokey ending they stuck on it ! urgh .
Nov 12, 2005 02:20 pm Hokie?!?! Virginia Tech?! lol.. that game against Miami was disappointing.
Nov 12, 2005 02:25 pm heavier than heaven was a good book to get insight on what his life was like, especially pre-fame. i dont like reading about the death though. i did that too much in 1994 because i couldnt believe it had happened and so i read everything and it made and makes me sick.
Nov 12, 2005 04:54 pm For some ppl yes it might be stupidity.. but trying to think of hundreds of thousands of suicide cases anually... makes me wonder.
Is it really a QUICK ESCAPE? and most ppl willing to end their lifes rather than FACING/SOLVING the real burdens of whatever problems they have at work etc...
All of them maybe not so sure of what door theyre opening when theyre pulling the trigger but theyre really willing to take the risk..
www.ogrish.com/archives/s...ov_06_2005.html
Nov 12, 2005 05:05 pm If I were considering suicide, I'd have to have some pretty clear answers on heaven/hell and where I'm going when I hit the bottom before I did something like that.
Nov 12, 2005 05:54 pm In most religions, taking your own life sends you straight to hell...
Nov 12, 2005 10:40 pm Pretty much.. cept for suicide bombing, evidently.
Nov 13, 2005 07:59 pm hahhahahhhhahahhaha that's hillariousken!!! but yup dB! mine clearly states neither the earth nor the sky will accept suiciders until the judgement day..! the will hang around in between them. And whe the day comes STRAIGHT TO THE HELL yess!! no compromise!
i'm not pretty much sure about the suicide bombers tho... but i really believe thats suicide too! hey.. suicides are still suicides right?
Nov 14, 2005 03:20 am Ok, no one elce toutched it, so I shall.
Has anyone read up on the conspiricay theory stuff that Mr. Cobaine was murdered?
There is thought that "El Duce" from "The Mentors" might have made the hit, and his untimely demise might have been the orchistrations of...
Courtney Love!!!
There is a "rider" that goes with all her interviews that "Mr. Cobaine" is not to be mentioned.
I can understand that on a few differant levels. It all depends on where you want to take it.
I so wish I could make crap like this up.
And I so wish I could care about it all.
But I can't.
Realy.
On one hand, you have conspiracy theory. On the other, you have tormented artist. It's food for thought anyways.
Hope someone finds it fun!
Nov 14, 2005 06:35 am Yeah, I'd have a hard time buying the murder theory myself, of course from the distance of any of us, who knows, but it seemed like only a metter of time until he imploded...it's not like that was his first suicide attempt.
Nov 14, 2005 08:09 am I would always be willing to hear out the conspiracy theory, especially with my all time hero John Lennon being the subject of many such theories....
That said, Cobain, was a mixed up and troubled man. His lyrics told us this. His music told us this. HIM/HE/ALL HE WAS told us this.
Man, I was never into Nirvana much and never will be...some of their stuff was OK but thats where my appreciation ended - but, as always, music is SUBJECTIVE so thats all cool...
As for him taking his own life. Can never/Will never/dont want to EVER understand why anyone who has kids/family can be such a cowardly bastard as to leave their family behind and have reached such a low that they would put their family thru such a ringer.....but, as I say, thats just me. There are many who have done it and many more will nae thousands/millions over time I guess.
I personally cant undertsand it, and as I Say, this rubbish about "Being better off without me" - that smacks of self pitty but the flip of that is, he was NOT of sane mind to be so low, and therefore not "himself" (tho he was if you know what I mean) and therefore blew himself away.
Anyways, "better to burn out than fade away" is a nice line, but most of us will indeed fade away. I prefer "Life's a journey...not a destination" than the first lyric...and therefore reckon, there's always something more to find/explore/etc...
Now, that was WAYYYYYYYY to heavy for a Monday lunchtime...
Take it easy folks
Coco.
Nov 14, 2005 10:28 am sort of on the topic of suicide, would any of you consider base jumping some sort of suicide? or doing anything where the risk of death is high?
Nov 14, 2005 10:38 am naw, that's thrill seeking. Totally different. If you knew you were going to die, without a doubt, would you jump? lol... if the answer is yes, then you're committing suicide since you're the one throwing yourself off the cliff.
Nov 14, 2005 10:39 am You are slapping fate square in the face, but commiting suicide? No, I don't think so.
Nov 14, 2005 12:23 pm Quote:
If you knew you were going to die, without a doubt, would you jump? lol
i watched a show on tv about base jumping and for alot of these people that was the mindset, "i can die very easily, this could me my last jump"
Nov 14, 2005 12:59 pm yeah... it's a big risk, but it's not for certain. The difference between suicide and base jumping is one of them has a parachute that they hope will open.
Nov 14, 2005 01:44 pm nice thoughts, coco.
the murder idea is just so messy. most conspiracy theories seem to require countless things to go exactly right. the moon landing conspiracy particularly angers me.
hey db, these little ads at the bottom of the screen here, the 'db stats' one just scared the piss out of me. i saw it out of the corner of my eye and the motion and blackness of it made me perceive a cockroach.
lol
i almost jumped up and swatted
Nov 14, 2005 01:45 pm hehehehe, hope you have a tough monitor :-)
Nov 14, 2005 07:00 pm Base jumping, I would like to give it a try. I did the sky difing thing adn it scared the living crap outa me. So I am guessing base jumping would be even more frightfull.
I was dumb enough to try hang gliding with the first generation of those things. That was even scarier then jumping out of an airplane! A little tiny kite thing is going to hled me up while I jump off this cliff, are you nuts.
But it did. The landing of that thing however was not a piece of cake mind you for a rookie. :-O
Nov 14, 2005 07:07 pm I'm freaking skydiving once I can afford it. lol... then basejumping! (unless I have a family..lol).
Nov 14, 2005 07:23 pm i went skydiving and found it both amazing and ... i dunno. i dont know if i was frightened. there wasnt time. the guy did not give me a chance to look down. he opened the door and then we were in freefall. i didnt even get a glance down first. i blacked out for a few seconds because it was all so sudden and i was upside down immediately and completely disoriented. next thing i knew, my body was like going through the right motions by itself: spread eagle, check the altimeter, etc. i didnt feel entirely conscious until i pulled the cute. it was weird.
i would never base or bungee jump. somehow parachutes seem safer to me. but i will never skydive again. i think. though, god it was fun. but it seems too dangerous or something ultimately. it was just a way to 'wake me up' that year.
hanggliding sounds amazing but i bet id wreck. why cant you start from a lower place! no cliffs right off the bat!
kiteboarding looks awesome, exhilarating, and safe.
Nov 14, 2005 07:40 pm me & my friends at practice the other day were joking around, thinking of funny ways to die... freddie said hed wanna skydive w/out a parachute while having sex (he's still a virgin) and i let him kno that people survive no-chute skydiving. matt couldnt think of one. i said it'd be cool to to sufficate myself in a gynormous tube of banana flavored skiddles (damn i love those!). and kris said he wanted to die in the world's largest cheease burger.
sorry... i hate suicide and talk about it... i had to lighten the mood :)
Nov 14, 2005 07:48 pm They make banana flavored skittles? Crap! I didn't know that... lol.
Nov 14, 2005 08:25 pm wooo awesome expereience forty! i've never read skydiving stories before.. dangerous too if youre not really conscious during that freefall! what if you forgot/failed body mechanisms to pull the chute? Scarry man!
Nov 14, 2005 08:47 pm i shall flesh it out a bit more then...
it was more like a feeling of leaving your consciousness behind you on the plane. everything seemed to go black or just --- visually nonsensical all of a sudden because i would have been spinning wildly and maybe my eyes were closed too. point: vision was useless. i didnt know where i was or what was happening--it was just shocking. then i had this thought: spread eagle! spread eagle!' and as soon as you do that your body automatically faces groundward, belly down, which was pretty cool. then it got fun...it really felt like you were flying. it went by very fast. it seemed like only seconds before i had to pull the chute. then it became less fun. a big dude was strapped to my back. it was eerily quiet up there. no sounds but the wind in the chute.
if i would have failed to pull the chute, the dude would have. in fact, my girlfriend at the time jumped on the next flight up. she later told me she forgot to pull the chute because she was having so much fun. and here i was, neurotically checking that altimeter the whole way down.
but once i was on the ground again, waiting for her to drop down, it was weird hearing her before seeing her. for a few minutes you could hear laughter WAY above you, and not a visible sign of them.
all in all it was a set of really fun experiences. i talked about it for six months. damn it, im still doing it.
Nov 15, 2005 07:47 am Sorry guys - I take the BA Baracus view on this one "I aint goin on no plane fool!"...
I HATE FLYING...!!!
And, my view is, if God had intended me to fly, my house would have been nearer to the airport :-) !!
Ohhhh no man - skydiving, jumping OOT the bloody thing...man, it takes me long enough to want to actually get in the darn thing without the prospect of opening the door and leaping out!!!
Nah, I'll stick to rollercoasters and fast cars thanks...oh aye, and some white water rafting, that was a blast (literaly as I got whacked with an oar but thats another story) - good it was tho!
Cheers
Coco.
Nov 15, 2005 09:14 am Quote:
As for him taking his own life. Can never/Will never/dont want to EVER understand why anyone who has kids/family can be such a cowardly bastard as to leave their family behind and have reached such a low that they would put their family thru such a ringer.....but, as I say, thats just me.
maybe he felt like his daughter was better off without a junkie raising her? which i something i cant relate to.
Nov 15, 2005 09:17 am Quote:
maybe he felt like his daughter was better off without a junkie raising her?
Ya mean like Courtney Love?
Nov 15, 2005 09:48 am I've done a few skydives as well. Static lines. Very fun. Probably won't do it again, being older, and family-ized, but it was certainly worth the time and $$$.
I find it very unfortunate that people are unable to adjust to life, in a usable fashion. Some people take to drugs and alcohol, some take to mental irregularities. Sometimes they can get away from them, to tragic ends.
Some people, though, can get a grip on their demons, and develop ways of coping, and adjusting to their issues, overcoming, and learing new ways of living. I wish more people better luck with things, as there's no honor in suicide.
Nov 15, 2005 10:45 am Coco- The white water rafting thing has been something I've been meaning to do again for a while now . I did a coupl'a days of it,(26mi) a few years ago, and have since logued a few hundred miles in my kayak/canoe trips... but NOTHING touches flying through class III-V rapids in seventeen-foot rafts with 30 of your closest friends ! heh, Yeah, getting whacked with an oar is quite possible, as well as getting pitched from the raft into a turbulant cauldron of H2o... or losing your guide that way ! lol
Nov 15, 2005 02:35 pm I thought it was funny when I was going down the river in 2 man dinghys in class 3-4 rapids... freaking hilarious, and a blast!! We laughed at the people going down in the huge rafts, and they pointed and were laughing at us too....lol.
Nov 15, 2005 08:47 pm does anyone ever die rafting? how common is it?
coco i hear ya on the flying thing. there were a few years here recently where i refused to fly. i drove cross country rather than fly. and whenever family went back north to visit, i would drive that 1000 miles myself while they all flew. and yet i jumped out of a plane somehow. i remember what i was thinking: facing 'death' and surviving = better and quicker buzz of rejuvenation than prozac. it had been a lousy year. i needed something. it sort of worked: the residual buzz lasted six months.
Nov 15, 2005 10:35 pm I also have a rational fear of flying.
Mainly because of past experiences... sudden loss of altitude, bird in engine, lighting strike, and a bomb. I find myself thinking "Can I jump out with and airline blanket and stitch together a parachute using my shoelaces before I hit the ground?" I also always fly with some sort of weapon, though now that they frown on pocket knives I usually just have a sturdy pen. :) ...the old "Never be more than an arms length away from an implement of destruction."
Nov 15, 2005 10:58 pm Take a roll of quarters or nickels (whatever fits your fist better). The innocent man's brass knuckles.
I know of a few incidents where people drown rafting. Most of the time it's from being too drunk and not wearing a life jacket. Statistically, you're probably more likely to die on the way to the river than actually drowning while ON the river.
Nov 16, 2005 05:56 am sudden loss of altitude is scaaaaaryyy. ive had that.
Nov 16, 2005 01:27 pm I was pretty sure I was going to meet my Maker when I was coming into a landing during a snowstorm in Toronto, Ontario in a 16 passenger turboprop. It was a fun landing. I was proud of myself that I didn't puke.
Nov 16, 2005 10:12 pm I gotta say I have never been afraid of flying. But I will admit that flying into a couple lakes in Alaska and Canada to fish, and flying is the only way onto these lakes. These guys that fly in there I think do it on purpose, landing is right accross the tree tops untill the lake suddenly appears and then WHAM, straight down onto the water. Taking off is even worse, 100 friggin miles per hour straight at the tree's and then at the very last second, 10 feet from hetting the tree's straight up into the sky. And these planes were old jalopy's. And yes, I fear for my life every time I have done that.
The pilot's of course just chuckle as everyone on the plane sighs with relief all at the same time.
Nov 17, 2005 02:13 am ahh, alaska. my friend last year was a caretaker at a lodge in alaska. like 'the shining.' alone for like 8 months, nearest person several miles up the river, and that person accessible only via snowmobile, along the frozen river. dude ate and wrote for 8 months in the freezing darkness. caribou pizza and football games with the husband and wife up river, his only social contact.
alaska has got to be one of the most beautiful places on earth. i hope to see it one day.
oh yeah, i killed myself once but didnt like it, so screw that.
Nov 17, 2005 07:26 am [quote]coco i hear ya on the flying thing. there were a few years here recently where i refused to fly. i drove cross country rather than fly. and whenever family went back north to visit, i would drive that 1000 miles myself while they all flew. and yet i jumped out of a plane somehow. i remember what i was thinking: facing 'death' and surviving = better and quicker buzz of rejuvenation than prozac. it had been a lousy year. i needed something. it sort of worked: the residual buzz lasted six months.
[/quote]
Ah Forty - aye, I can relate to that and once considered (after the flight from hell to Tenerife (4 1/2 bloody hours) driving across Europe on holiday!! Then discovered it took like 2 days and thought - sodd it. The chances of me dying in a plane are FAR less likely than me dying in my car on the road...but, the irrational fear of flying is there all the same.
Though, my last flight I busied msyelf with Yahtzee (eletronic) and hammered the *** of it !! 2 1/2 hrs later and we were hitting the ground at Edinburgh Airport...and like the pope, I kissed the tarmac and vowed NEVER to do it again....til the next time :-) !!
Aye - its stupid. Statistically there is FAR less chance of death in a plane over a car. I guess I am a bit of a control freak of sorts - I Know there is a GOOD chance I can have a big part to play in avoiding sure death in my car and I AM in control to a point. I also know in a plane that if something goes horribly wrong, the seatbelt will not save my butt as the plane hits the ocean at 300MPH!!!! That said, I console myself with the fact pilots are well paid, have families and surely want to spend their money when the day is over :-) !!!
Anyways, its a ******* fear (that I never used to have I may add) but, I guess it can only get better huh!!! Maybe hypnotheraphy is the answer tho I would say, I wont be easily hypnotised (has been tried)...
Ach - such is life...maybe I should just get one of them Jet Packs they had on the intro to the "fall guy" and strap my suitcase to my butt and fly myself!! hehehe...
Cheers
Coco.
Nov 17, 2005 05:10 pm what you need, coco, is to hire the A-team to drug your milk and secretly put you on a plane to wherever you're going.
my god what a brilliant little running gag that was in that show. brilliant! the tough guy who wont fly, always waking up confused in new locations.
Nov 17, 2005 06:02 pm forty, that is a good one. It seemed they pulled that on him in every episode. How dumb could he possibly have been? But hey, thats TV for ya.
Nov 17, 2005 06:32 pm heh speaking of drugging... my friend who was in afghanistan took some sleeping pills before his flight to leave...and the plane crashed on takeoff!!! Not bad (blew all 16 or so tires) but everyone was trying to get out and he couldn't stay awake!! :)
Nov 17, 2005 08:10 pm I've never got to skydive, although bungee jumping I have done, as well as rock climbing with no rope or harness,and firebreathing. All of those are fun, and potentionally fatal, but they are not suicide.
I have a hard time believe any judeo-christian religion really believes that suicide sends you straight to hell, after all God is said to forgive all your sins, why not suicide? just because you're dead afterwords doesn't mean that you can't repent... but that's getting deep and the last thing I want is to start a flame war.
But yeah, suicide is messed up, but having dealt with it in my life I can say that I believe the majority of people who commit suicide honestly are insuch a different place that they percieve it as the only logical answer, which is sad. I'd never call someone who committed suicide a coward, since I have no idea what is going in their head psychologically.
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