help me, im a n00b!
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Posted on Apr 26, 2003 10:44 pm
fredzs
Member Since: Jan 07, 2003
hello everyone,
I have a 6 Piece Pearl Drumset, and a Fat Strat and a Peavey Amp . . i want to start making my own music . . im mainly a drummer, and i really really really! want to record in my computer but cant because i only have one computer and my its in my room, but my room is far from my Music Room, and my music room is outside the house. . so i have to stick with a multitrack . . but ive been looking in to make my own PC. . instead of buying a Multitrack. . is a Pentium III 866mhz with a Seagate 20GB HD, and 512SDRAM enough??? but i dont know what soundcard am i gonna get . . . i want at least 4 mics and 6 at most . . . heeeelllppp!!!!
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Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 26, 2003 10:53 pm Yes fredzs that should be a good start. If you go look at our section called The Gear Bag you will find some recomendations for audio interfaces (sound cards) that will gie you agood place to start.
Good Luck, and let us know how things go. YOu can always come here for some help when you need it.
fredzsMember
Since: Jan 07, 2003
Apr 26, 2003 11:10 pm Im thinking of the M-Audio Delta 44? ? ? it says it has 4 ins and 4 outs, so i can record 4 mics at a time? also if i have a mixer can i return it to the mixer so i can mix it after it is recorded? . . . can i still use mics with XLR plugs?? for example a Shure SM-57 it has a XLR plug . . cant i use it here? cause it has a 1/4" inputs. also, will this suffice for a recording first? can i mix in the computer?? also, what multi track program is the best for starters??
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 27, 2003 06:48 pm Yes, the 44 will record 4 channels at one time, as long as your software is capable of doing so.
I would strongly suggesst using a mixer with the 44 as it will be of great benefit if you are planing on recording all 4 channels at once. And seeing as the 44 does not have XLR ins, the mixer will give you that option.
And yes, mixing in the computer is really the way to go. I know some people prefer to have the option of mixing on a desk, but I like going either way. And truthfully doing it in the PC is much smoother, and you can do things in the PC you simply cant do on a desk.
As far as software goes, I would again suggest looking to our Gear Bag section, but I will also ask a question of you. Are you planning on recording audio only or both audio and midi?
I am parcial to Cakewalks programs as they have something for everyone from the begginer to the proffesional. I use SonarXL 2.2 along with their newly released Project 5 and must say I am quite happy with the combination. There is really nothing I cant do with the 2 programs which actually run as one big program through rewire technology.
fredzsMember
Since: Jan 07, 2003
Apr 27, 2003 10:32 pm can you give me benefits of using a computer for recording? because i will spend more if i buy another computer . . . i only need to record 4 tracks at once . . . i was planning before so i wouldnt spend much is just buy a Fostex Mr-8 and buy a Mixer, so that i can plug all my mics in the mixer and the main outs to the Fostex. . but im not sure . . . i need to buy another computer just to record . . .
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 28, 2003 04:46 pm Well fredz, for the money you will invest in a MR-8 and a fairly decent mixer the size you will need to do what you want. You can build a very decent computer strictly for recording.
The advantages of going with a PC are numerous, but Ill mention just a few. You can visualy see what you are recording and editing. Archiving tracks or bits of a track are very easy to do. You are not limited as far as memory goes, and there is no need to change memory cards or jump through hoops to unload or save a file to work on it later. The processing you can do is virtually unlimited, and most software DAWs now come with many pluggins for FX and also for onboard synths and samplers.
And again back to the price thing. For the money you can buy alot more memory and processing power by goin the PC route then you can with a protable multitrack recorder.
fredzsMember
Since: Jan 07, 2003
Apr 29, 2003 12:07 am would a
P3 866
640MB of SDRAM Pc133
20GB of HD
M-Audio Delta 44
work?? i mean, im going to put 4 mics in . . also, can i plug in Condenser Mics? i just have to buy an XLR to 1/4" converter right? im going to record drums . .
fredzsMember
Since: Jan 07, 2003
Apr 29, 2003 01:56 am and for example, i have a Delta44 . . and i have a 4 XLR input mixer . . for example a Behringer 802. . how would i send the 802 to the Delta 44? via Main out?? if i put it in Main out, then i still have 3 inputs left on the Delta44 right? can i plug different mics in that 3 input? and for example one Mic on a mixer has to be turned up, can i still turn it up AFTER the recording?
Apr 29, 2003 04:10 am The three mics would need some sort of preamp before them, but other than that you have it right. And yes, you can stillplay with volume and panning and such AFTER recording.
Apr 29, 2003 05:37 am hold up, fredz, if you connected both the left and right main outs of the 802 to the Delta 44, you'd only have 2 ins left. or maybe i missed what you're saying
fredzsMember
Since: Jan 07, 2003
Apr 29, 2003 07:50 am oh, i thought there was a "MAIN" out, that is only one .. lol, so its a stereo . .left and right . . four mics in the Mx802 then get the Main OUTS .. left and right, plug it in the Delta44, then the outs of the Delta 44 for the monitors.. i think i got it all figured out. . i think im gonna get the Nady DMK7 , 7 piece. and buy a Behringer 8 input mixer . . think it would work??
fredzsMember
Since: Jan 07, 2003
Apr 29, 2003 08:03 am also, why if i plug the main outs of the Mixer into the delta then record, why can i adjust the volume of EACH mic after recording? where when i do the same procedure but in a Fostex MR8 instead, people tell me it cant happen?
juesContributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002
Apr 29, 2003 08:53 am Right
Think about it this way - you have X amounts of Microphones and X amounts of inputs on your soundcard.
Each Input on your soundcard equates to a track in your DAW software (eg: Sonar, Cubase, etc). This if you plug a signal into inputs 1 and 2 and record, you will have two seperate tracks created within your DAW software.
The idea of a mixing desk is to "mix" signals down. Now depending on the specifications of you mixing desk it can have from 2 outputs (the "main" outputs, let and right) up to say 10 ouputs (the "main" outputs plus 8 "busses" which allow you to send multiple signals out of the board.
Instead of buying a mixing desk with only 2 outputs, you should maybe consider getting one with 4 buss outputs, (so you can feed each input on your Delta 44) or maybe a console that features "direct outputs" - this way you are just using the Pre-Amps on the mixing desk.
Going back to the example - if you have 4 mics plugged into a Behringer MX802a then you would only be able to record 2 tracks in your DAW software via the Delta 44 (because the MX802a doesn't feature any busses other than the "main" outputs (of which there are 2, left and right")
To access these 2 outputs individually you simply have to pan the signal to one of them. So, say for example you want Mic's 1 & 3 to go to one track in your DAW software and Mic's 2 & 4 to go to the other. You would pan Mic's 1 & 3 hard Left and mic's 2 & 4 hard Right. You would then hook up 2 cables from the main ouptuts into your Delta 44's inputs ("left" goes to input 1 and "right" goes to input 2).
As for the physical setup - it is better to have the ouputs of your Delta 44 brought back onto the mixing desk - this gives you more flexibility, you can use the "monitor" ouputs to feed the amplifier / speakers with a signal.
hope that clarifies things.
jues.
fredzsMember
Since: Jan 07, 2003
Apr 29, 2003 10:30 pm what will hapen if i put the outputs of the Delta44 back to the mixer??
Apr 30, 2003 02:15 am depends on how you route it. if you send it to the tape ins and click-on "tape to control room" it will route to your headphones. Or if you send it into a channel to be returned right back to the mix and back to the soundcard again (assuming you have Delta channels 1/2 selected as "monitor mixer") you'll get horrible feedback.
if you're concidering getting a Delta 44 and an MX802, that's what I'm using, I havn't outgrown them yet, and I recommend them as a excellent bargain balancing price and quality.
fredzsMember
Since: Jan 07, 2003
Apr 30, 2003 05:40 am how do u setup your Delta44 and Mx802? i think im going for UB-1604fx-PRO . . . it has 4 XLR and 2 subouts . . so, i plug all my mics in the 4 XLR inputs, then, i program Mic 1&2 for subout 1 and Mic 3&4 for subout 2 . . then i put each of it in the Input 1 and 2 of the Delta 44. . . and then what? pls give me the Exact Detail
Apr 30, 2003 05:51 am OK, well, the UB series has a 1204, an 1804 and a 1622, I didn't see a 1604, and that said, there is one stereo channel of "sub outs" and one stereo channel of main out. You can make them both into a pair of mono outs by panning hard in opposite directions, one to the left and one to the right.
So your theory is flawed in that way, your sub out can have two mics, not 4. UNLESS you are saying to have mics 1 & 2 and mics 3 & 4 record on the same track, then you can, I was assuming you wanted to keep all 4 spearate, but re-reading your post I may have misunderstood it.
Quote:
then i put each of it in the Input 1 and 2 of the Delta 44. . . and then what? pls give me the Exact Detail
Well exact detail may be hard, but ultimately once the mixer outs are plugged in to the Delta ins, than you open whatever program you are using to record on your PC, and assign a couple tracks to listen to those ins for their source and press 'record'.
fredzsMember
Since: Jan 07, 2003
Apr 30, 2003 06:38 am DbMaster : So your theory is flawed in that way, your sub out can have two mics, not 4. UNLESS you are saying to have mics 1 & 2 and mics 3 & 4 record on the same track, then you can, I was assuming you wanted to keep all 4 spearate, but re-reading your post I may have misunderstood it.
...................
wait, so your saying i can seperate all 4 mics on 4 diff tracks so i can adjust the volume of each mic? but i need to record the 4 mics at the same time . . how can i do that? im sooo super confused
Apr 30, 2003 07:06 am That all depends ont he software you are using to record...Cakewalk, Sonar, Cubase, Vegas...whatever, but yes, they all provide a way to record multiple tracks at once from different sources. However, you will need to use different outs, as your sub outs can only make up to 2 tracks, you would then need to use aux outs or something to get the other two...
However, until we know what application you are recording with, any amount of detail is impossible.
Apr 30, 2003 10:46 am If your mixer has two sub outs and two main outs then you would assign say, Channel one to the Left sub out and pan it hard left, channel two to the right sub out and pan it hard right. Now I am assuming that each channel can be asigned to either the subs or the mains or both. You would also assign channels three and four to the main outs and pant them hard left and hard right respectively. You now connect the left sub out to the #1 input on your Delta 44, the right sub out to #2 input, Left main out to #3 input and Right main out to #4 input.
Another way would be to connect the inserts from each channel to the Delta. I'm assuming that the Berry has inserts.
Blessings, Terry
fredzsMember
Since: Jan 07, 2003
May 04, 2003 09:00 am i think ive got it now . .
this is what my setup is gonna be..
Asus CUV-4x mobo
Pentium III 866Mhz
640 Pc133 SDRAM
20 GB Seagate 7200rpm HD
Nvidia GF2 MX400 32mb
M-Audio Delta 44
Nady DMK7 - 7 piece Drum Mic w/ 2 condensers
Behringer Eurorack 1832-FXPRO
is it OK?? will it work?
also, im thinking of getting a 5.1 Speaker system from Altec Lansing, do you guys think it would work good?? also, what software do you guys recommend? i want at least 16 tracks... thanks! Im thinking of Sonar 2.0 XL?
May 04, 2003 09:44 am Very nice. I think that will be very nice. As a possible future upgrade you may want to consider a second harddrive for just audio storage.
As a whole, I think you are on the right track, it look plenty powerful, and Sonar 2 is awesome. If you don't plan to use any MIDI, maybe consider IntuitiveMX as well, it's half the price and very cool if you don't need MIDI.
I hope you buy as much as you can through our Musician's Friend links and PJ Electronics ;-)
May 05, 2003 12:28 am I've listened to some Altec Lansing systems on the stores, and I think they're some of the higher end speakers you can get for computer home entertainment, but they're not going to have a very flat frequency responce, meaning they won't be ideal for precision monitoring. I use a Sony 5.1 system in my room and it adds alot that "isn't there" if you know what I mean. I am sticking with my headphones until i can afford proper monitors.
fredzsMember
Since: Jan 07, 2003
May 05, 2003 12:32 am hmm, i think its gonna cost a lot, $500+ for the mixer, mics, and sound card . . . for example, im gonna play with just 2 guys, Drummer, Guitar and Bass . . would a 4 input mixer suffice? because im kinda short on money and i only have 500 to spend on mixer, soundcard, and mics . . . and i need to record the whole band . . help pls
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
May 05, 2003 06:24 am Dude,
There a lot of ways to skin a cat! A pro studio may use 7 0r 8 mics on the drum set, a couple on the bass and a couple on the getfiddle, another for each vocalist. Right there you are talking 13 channels on the mixer. In the case of a band doing a self recording, it could vary from a simple stereo recording of the band playing a piece to maybe an 8 input mixer recording each instrument or voice seperately. If the drum kit is electronic, you might do a direct input recording of all of the instruments and just use a mic for vocals, if you are including vocals. To start, two mics, an 8 channel mixer with a set of sub outs, and a good sound card should take you a long way!
fredzsMember
Since: Jan 07, 2003
May 05, 2003 10:15 pm i think i just need a 8 input mixer . . . because im gonna use 6 for the drums 1 for the bass and 1 for the guitar . . we dont have vocals, we play Instrumental Progressive Rock . . a.l.a Liquid Tension . . so, maybe thats it . .
im just thinking of getting a Behringer MX2004A . . it has 8 xlr inputs and no effects, since i dont need the effects . . what i wanna do is record the whole band at the same time, im gonna use mics 1-6 for drums, 7 for bass and 8 for guitar . . . but i want to seperate the drums, bass and guitar. is that possible?? im gonna be plugging it into a Delta 44 . . .
fredzsMember
Since: Jan 07, 2003
May 05, 2003 11:01 pm forget it, im gonna get the UB2442-FXPRo . . it has 10 XLR inputs, now, how can i seperate mics 1-6, mics 7 and mic 8 ??? i see the UB2442-FXPRO has 8 Subouts??? it can be seen from the pic from their site . .
fredzsMember
Since: Jan 07, 2003
May 12, 2003 06:48 am Do you guys think the Nady 7 piece kit with condensers will be give me an "ACCEPTABLE" studio sound??
fredzsMember
Since: Jan 07, 2003
May 12, 2003 10:38 am M-Audio - Delta 1010-LT . . . what would u guys rather pick, this one or the Delta 44???? and whats the downside of RCA connectors. . . i kinda like the delta 1010LT cause i can have 8 seperate tracks . . but im not sure .
May 12, 2003 10:47 am Some say RCA's are a bit noisier, because they usually have to be adapted to work with any mixer since mixers generally have 1/4" jacks. That said, I get decent results from my Audiophile 2496 which has RCA's...and I am very happy with it.
fredzsMember
Since: Jan 07, 2003
May 12, 2003 04:54 pm so lets say i get the Delta 1010LT . . . and i use the subouts of my mixer . . and it is 1/4" so i must get a 1/4" to RCA converter???
May 12, 2003 05:09 pm All you'll need to do is use adapters on the cables to change them from 1/4" to RCA. You can pick them up for cheap at Radio Shack or someplace like that.
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
May 15, 2003 03:27 pm I use a yamaha board and the delta 44. All I do is run my out busses into the delta 44, and run each out of the delta back into 4 channels of the desk for mixing. Doing it that way I can get the sound into the computer, then it comes back out, into my desk where I can mix it and use hardware effects and eq it a little, and then I simply press play and arm those four tracks to record on four blank tracks and then I have the edited tracks sitting on top of the unedited tracks, which are then deleted.
As to how do you set it up to record each mic individually: Well lets say you got a mixer with 4 direct outs and the delta 44. You would run your mics into the channels of the mixer, then the direct outs from that channel into the corresponding channels on the delta. With me so far? Alright, now you go into your DAW (Digital Audio Workstation, the software) and you select the input of the first track as Delta 44 input 1, the input for track two to be delta 44 input two, and so on and so forth. If you do it this way you will then record 4 seperate tracks, with each track only having the sound from that channel on it. theoreticly speaking of course, theres always bleeding.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
May 15, 2003 09:01 pm Hosa and others actually make cable that go RCA to 1/4" without adapters. I have several snakes that do the trick for me. You can get a premade 8 channel Hosa snake for about $35.00 US depending on the store. I think even Musicians Friend might carry them but not sure, maybe a differant brand.
mccartyeeeeeeemo.Member
Since: Oct 30, 2003
Mar 09, 2005 01:09 pm hi everyone, apologies for dragging up an old thread but i have been researching into the products mentioned above.
am i right in thinking that using a Delta 44 soundcard with a Behringer UB-1832FXPRO (or any mixer that has at least 4 mic inputs and 4 out busses) would allow the recording of say, a drum kit with 4 mics, each mic going onto a seperate channel in my multitrack software (i use cubase se)?
and one final question... with my current setup, the stereo out on my audiophile soundcard is connected to the stereo tape return on my mixer, which in turn sends that signal to the control room outputs, which feed my monitors.
is it possible to monitor with a simple setup like this using the equipment mentioned before? i'm just a bit confused, as the delta 44 has 4 outputs, but tape returns are stereo....
thanks for any help :)
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Mar 09, 2005 02:59 pm You could use channel inserts as signal taps, instead of looking for a mixer with adequate sub-outs. This way you can use a mixer that has 4 mic inputs, and not need the sub outs. Use the main outs for monitoring and you're all set. Much cheaper than a 1832fxpro.
you would only need 2 outputs to monitor, one for left channel and one for right channel. The mixer on the computer should put them together and send it to output 1 and output 2.
mccartyeeeeeeemo.Member
Since: Oct 30, 2003
Mar 11, 2005 12:08 pm aah ok, so as long as i got a mixer with at least 4 mic inputs, each of which have channel inserts in their strip on the mixer, that would suffice?
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Mar 11, 2005 12:23 pm yes, be sure that they all would have channel inserts. on the mg10/2 i was looking at, it only had inserts on 2 of the channels. on my mg16/4, it had inserts on all 8 mic inputs.
after the 4 inputs go into the computer, you can bring the two (l & r) output channels back into your mixer in a stereo pair (i use the last two). Then you can connect your monitoring system to the main out of your mixer.
This way you have the four input signals still flowing through the mixer, getting mixed into the stereo playback coming from the last two channels, and then all them together exit the board through the mains. You can control you monitoring from the mixer instead of inside the computer, which is a pain to me.
