Good God, someone please help me...
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Posted on Jul 20, 2009 11:37 am
Adam Mutschler
Abomb Muchbaby
Member Since: Jul 02, 2009
So I use Cubase and I cannot for the life of me get a good sound out of my guitar recordings... I don't seem to have much of a problem with power chords or something like that, but if I try to record a distorted guitar, or even a clean or slightly distorted guitar with chords, it just sounds terrible. I do NOT have good microphones, and I think that is one big part of the problem, but could it also have to do with the room? I can't even describe how the guitar sounds on the mix, just terrible and sloppy and all over the place. It sounds horrific.
If someone could recommend a good microphone and/or some good techniques for mic placement and settings, I would really appreciate it. Also, maybe effects or compression? A little bit of compression seems to help slightly but anything else seems to intensify the noise and sloppy sounds... Reverb is the the worst...
Thanks
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pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jul 20, 2009 11:58 am You have to be much more specific, if you want anything helpful.
What microphone? what amp? what cab/speakers? what guitar? what effects?
What's the room like? Real small? hard & boxy? carpet, long and plush? etc.
what specifically does it sound like? is there bad playing style? bad timing? latency on recording? bad guitar setup? bad strings? Overly mushy? bad EQ? room nodes? etc.
I'm gonna guess right off, that too much distortion will garbage up a track. Maybe thin the dist down, and double it up with a little different track, maybe without dist at all, just clean. Put them together in your mix, and adjust to taste.
Other than that, you really gotta come most of the way to us, for us to help you out. I can't 'imagine' up a solution, when I don't even know what the problem is.
That's kinda like saying 'my PC doesn't work' and then expecting someone to fix it based on that over the phone. You gotta give us details to work with.
Jul 20, 2009 01:04 pm Ok, basically I will start with equipment. I feel good about my guitar it's a USA strat. I have a few different amps, I have a vox AC30 and I also have a Line 6 solid state amp. I prefer the vox obviously, and I think the sound coming out of the amp is very good.
As far as microphones go, I don't really have anything worth mentioning, so like I said I am sure that is probably my first problem. The microphone that I get the best results out of is an audix condenser mic. It's probably a 80 or 100 dollar mic.
The room? Well, I have a basement. Probably another big problem. It's a big wide open room, probably about 30 feet by 18 feet, concrete walls and floor, however I do have some carpet on the floor. The ceiling is beams with ventilation ducts lined throughout. I am assuming that this is all starting to come together for you...
That being said, to describe the sound, it just sounds lo-fi I guess. Kind of pingy and scratchy, no real definition, no real beginning or end to the sound if that makes sense, no definition.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jul 20, 2009 02:07 pm THere we go. First thing I'd guess isn't the mic, it's the room. I'd guess that your ears are automagically 'adjusting' themselves for the amount of bounce in the room. You're probably recording the amp pretty loud, and it's causing a TON of slap echo, and quick reverb. This all adds up to make an un-defined, icky recorded signal.
If you can, try hanging packing blankets, or thick quilts around the room, near the walls. This should dampen down some of the mid and high end mud. The low end will take more adjustment, but thick blankets can help.
To really show if it's the room, try and record a few minutes outside, or in a more open and damp room. That may tell you for sure that it's your basement giving you the woes.
How far away from your amp is your mic? you may put a thick pillow-blanket-insulation-dampener behind the mic. This may help keep the mic from hearing 'other' sounds in the room. You could also turn down the volume, and record less dist, to see if that's it.
Experiment is your friend here, i'd think. Try some wacky adjustments, and see which ones do some real changes, then go from there.
hth
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Jul 20, 2009 08:59 pm I guess it also depends on what model the mic is.
and as Tad stated, will depend on how far the mic is away from the cab.
a condenser will pick up everything especially in a room such as yours.
tis why the sm57 is used for close micing, it wont pick up a heap of room noise if you put right up to the grill or there abouts.
again though, it depends on what model your condesner is.
main thing with distortion is, you dont need half as much as you would just jamming out, it will really sound like poo when recorded.(all scratchy, noisy, and as you stated lo-fi)
So turning it down is a BIG step in the righty.
and also be lean on the top end, eq wise and even though mids are key for distortion, dont be too liberal with them.
you basicly wanna eliminate scratch.
and the bass eq, well you'd already know bout that. keep it down.
compression is a touchy subject. some say smash it, others say distrotion is already smashed by nature so dont bother.
its a matter of taste, and how your tracking came out, your gear, mics, room, you know?
as Tad says, try and dampen the sound regardless, make a shield or use blankies or whatever. try and record away from the walls.
let us know your outcome mate.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Jul 20, 2009 09:00 pm oh yeah, putting the amp up a bit off the ground AND putting some sort of dampening on the floor will help big time too.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jul 20, 2009 09:57 pm Yep, getting the amp/cabinet off the ground a bit and on even a small piece of old carpet will help some. And if you have a couple blankets and chairs or anything to kind of build a little damper about 6 to 10 feet in front of it will really help kill some of the echo in the concrete basement. You may even need to put them closer depending on the room. Maybe 3 to 6 feet starting at 3 feet and try that first.
And record at a lower volume then you would normally play at. That will clean things up in a big way.
Jul 21, 2009 07:47 am I would assume that the theory is that the louder the amp, the more buzzing/vibration/slapback you are gonna get? Makes sense, atleast now that you guys spelled it out. There is a lot of discussion about the distance of the mic from the cabinet? What is a good distance? Should I point the front of the mic at the speaker, or try and use the side? Right at the center of the cone, offset or in between the two speakers? I know it's all about taste again, but what would the guys in this forum do? As far as sound dampening goes, I have to be honest, I always thought it was kind of pointless to use blankets and stuff... But then again, I have never really tried it, so I can't say that can I? Thanks for all the great input guys, I appreciate you.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Jul 21, 2009 08:53 am blankets will prevent the mic picking up too much crap from bouncing of the walls.
put the mic either in the centre of the speaker cone or at the edge, what ever your taste.
if putting it on the edge, angle it slightly inwards towrds the dust cap. not too much though, just a tad.
actually having the amp up loud would be better in normal circumstances, but in your room turning it down will work best.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jul 21, 2009 09:55 am Quote:
I always thought it was kind of pointless to use blankets and stuff
The idea is to give something for the sound to work with, instead of bouncing back at you and your mic. Thick blankets will have more mass, which takes more energy to vibrate, and after all, that's what we're really working with here: vibration on mass. The more you give your sound something to work with (other items like thick blankets, cushy chairs / couches, etc) the less the bouncing sound will get back into the mic.
To get the best location for your mic in regards to your speaker cab, you'll have to expirement. Have a friend move the mic around in front of the speaker slowly, while you chunk-a-chunk on guitar with your headphones on. When the sound is the best in headphones, stop playing and tighten up a stand to keep the mic in place. I think it was slipperman that I got that from. Here's a link, but be warned, it's not for the sensitive; he's got a real sailor's mouth, and a bitter engineer's mentality.
www.badmuckingfastard.com/sound/slipperman.html
But it is very informative, and quite entertaining, if you don't mind liberal use of cursing.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Jul 21, 2009 11:38 am Large concrete room with only a condensor to record, that is a tough one. In fact, that is a tough one for me in a decent sounding room. With a dynamic up close and a condensor a little further back, that is the sweet spot imo.
Quincysanhttp://www.unitedmusicians.infoContributor
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Jul 21, 2009 03:14 pm Agree with all.
Look at the sm57 dynamic mic...they're relatively inexpensive and pretty much everyone agrees they are a fantastic value. They shouldn't cost you more than 100 bucks brand new.
Also...fantastic resource located right here on HRC: www.homerecordingconnecti...at&cat_id=1
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Jul 21, 2009 07:27 pm hey man, upload a snipet when you can so we can have a squizer.
Jul 22, 2009 07:52 am I will upload a snippet, but it won't be pretty... ha. The microphone I have is an audix fusion condenser. I think it's decent but probably not compared to the shure sm57. Those seem to be the staple of home recording from talking and reading. I am in the process of moving my things around now so I will get something up when I have a chance.
Thanks guys.
Jul 22, 2009 07:54 am And does anyone know the quality of recording through a firepod? I have gotten some decent sounds out of it, but I know people always talk about preamps and mixers. Would it make sense for me to go into my mixer first, and then out of that into the firepod? Can't really see the benefit, but again, I don't know any better...
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Jul 22, 2009 08:23 am You're fine going into the Firepod, without the mixer.
Not to knock the sm57, but as much as you've read about it being a home recording staple, it doesn't necessarily mean it's the right mic for what you're looking to do... maybe a sm58 would do just as well, and be a better mic for other applications, as well.(I never really cared for the 57 m'self, but that's just me.)
Audix makes ok stuff. I think with what you have for gear, you have what is needed to get a good guitar capture. Take heed to what these guys are tellin' y'a... hooking up the room, blanketing the amp, and the info on that link that PJK gave you will get you going in the right direction, for sure. Also, if that Line6 amp you have has a direct-out for recording, don't be afraid to use it... we use 'em all the time, and the results can not be knocked! = )
Jul 22, 2009 10:57 am Cool man. Yeah, the best success I have had was one time I actually recorded my guitar track with a mic, and then doubled it on a direct track. It sounds a lot fuller, but still not suitable. I am gonna give this a shot the way you guys told me. Thanks.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Jul 22, 2009 12:28 pm The audix F series are there lower end mics, I used to use the 7piece F-series drum mic kit with decent results.
I still say use the condensor and a dynamic (or the direct if that's all you have) and record two signals of one take. Take those two tracks and create a nice blend of the two. Next, arm two more tracks for recording and double the guitar part (a real double, not a copy paste of the first take).
Now you have 4 guitar tracks of two different takes and it will sound much fuller than a copy paste job. Pan them to taste, although I normally will pan take 1 Left and take 2 right I have achieved a decent result by panning the two mics from take 1 L/R 50/50 and the same for take 2 at R/L 50/50.
Like so.. Direct 1 50L, codensor 1 50R - Direct 2 50R, condensor 2 50L. I liked this effect because it emulated a live sound pretty well. If at a show, when I am standing on the left side watching a guitarist it is very direct and in my face, I can still hear the guitarist on the right side, but he is more distant and a little airy. Panning the room mic to the opposite side creates this illusion imo.
Oops, started writing a book. Done for now.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Jul 22, 2009 07:58 pm i agree with ya there Hue about the 57.
its a great mic no doubt, but its not the only one.
in comparison to the condenser, especially in a concrete room though, like ya say, even a 58 would be better.
Jul 27, 2009 11:37 am So I am now using the Shure beta 57. I have pretty much come to the conclusion that it's either my room or my amp setting, or a combination of the two. That being said, I still can't get a good distortion sound. If I take enough distortion out of it to get rid of the scratching sound, it just sounds barely crunchy. Anything more and I get a hissing or something, hard to explain. I am going to play with it and get the best sound I can, then I will upload something for you guys to take a listen to. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Jul 27, 2009 11:54 am See, I like the barely crunchy layered like 4 times. And with a 57 beta up on the grill the room noise should not be that much of an issue.
That being said, you should not need to tweak it massively. I find the tone I like, and then dial it back only 1 or 2 on the gain. Then continue to layer things.
Just curious, how much have you played with mic placement? Do you have the amp in another room and someone to move the mic so you can really hear what's going on? Me personally, I do not.
My workaround for micing in the same room as my monitors (and not having a helper) was to get some sure in-ear monitors and a set of the most gigantic -db reducing hunting muffs I could find. They do not block %100 but enough so I can hear the difference when my mic is moved.
Just a thought.
Jul 28, 2009 11:36 am That is actually a huge problem for me. Unfortunately the sound can be quite different from my amp then what I am actually getting in the microphone. That beta microphone really helped though. Also, someone told me to back off on the distortion a little, which I didn't really want to do, but it actually helped. I also started using a plugin called guitar rig or something? Helps enormously for me. I can get a barely crunchy track, and then put the "fake" distortion on there, and it actually is giving me the sound I am looking for. Like the distortion without the scratchy ridiculous accompaniments... Thanks for all your help everyone. Now I am going to have to try to improve my drum tracks, and I should be in pretty good shape.
Jul 29, 2009 11:33 pm Deleted By StillfireRecords
