overheads mixing question

> > > overheads mixing question

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http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member Since: Nov 27, 2007

Im using EZDrummer for my drums. Wondering what some you guys do for an overheads mix as far as effects go?

so far i've been pulling out the bass freq. and putting some compression and verb on em.
What do you think about a "mono to stereo" If so, should i go for a full width or keep it tightish with rest of the drums?

I know its a matter of taste, but what are some of the things you guys might do in regard to overheads?
If anyone else uses EZDrummer, what do you do about the seemingly excessive Hi-hats volume. I can get them down a bit but in doing so im having to really drop the overheads and the room noise.
Thanks.
Deon.

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Pinnipedal Czar (: 3=
Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004

Jul 21, 2008 09:37 am

This thread has somewhat relevant timing for me... I find getting the overheads right the trickiest part of micing drums, and I spent a good deal of last night trying to do so .

In an attempt to keep our practice volumes at a more tollerable level , we moved our drummer from the middle of the live room, to a corner and baffled him into the corner... which means I had to reroute the overheads, and once again find that sweet spot for them . We also switched mixers, so the different pres and dynamic processors in this mixer are also coming into play . Having the baffles in place is working very well at keeping this jackhammer down to a workable level, however the corner-position is lending some interesting challenges especially on the overheads, and it's going to be a while before I find that sweet spot for them... this may even call for switching from condensers to dynamics, as I am now getting very slight transients on the left overhead from his snare... not sure if a position change will be enough . With the kick and snare, things are pretty cut n' dry... you pretty much have a solid formula for what sounds good, and it's relatively easy to achieve... not so with overheads... much more variables, and the little tweaks are more exagerated due to the distance of mic to kit .

BUT once I get that down, the mixing is easy... 100% left, and right; snare and kick up the middle, and lately I've been adding a 'lil surround articulation(very slight) to the one front(high) tom, just to keep things interesting .

Kaos is only a form of insanity
Member
Since: Feb 03, 2005

Jul 21, 2008 10:28 am

As with everything it is a matter of personal taste and musical style of the music.

Depending on the musical style I either use Pencil condensers or MDC condensers spaced left and right (not central x/y) then pan to sides, i used to do 100% L/R, but now keep it around 50/50 or 60/60.

If using pensils I use the low cut on them and then EQ to required taste normally shaving some more low end and some mids around the Gtrs and the horrible gong sound from cheaper cymbals.

When Using my MDC AudioTech's(which I prefer) I keep more lows in the mix shaving some mids and gong as before and sometimes adjusting the shimmer frequencies.

BeCareful on the mids as I find people take way too much out and leave the drums sounding thin and nasally! Mix the drums with the other music and not just on there own. Another factor is the amount of mics you are using added to this, do you use a room mic??

I tend to EQ and send an effects send to a reverb bus with a little light compression as the room I use seems to have some good verb goin

www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2005

Jul 21, 2008 11:00 am

I'm a bit confused with this thread. It looks to me that Deon is looking for help with EZDrummer and not real drums?? I use EZD for quick drum backtracks. Can't say that I've had a problem with excesive hi hat. Is it still really loud with the HH fader cranked way down? Maybe try swapping out a different hi hat.

As for real drums, I don't add any effects at all to the spaced pair. I don't use overheads when recording drums. All the cymbals are picked up by the spaced pair which are about 8 feet or so from the kit.

In a good room, spaced pair will work well but in a crappy room you'd be better off just close mic'ing. In a good room, most of your sound will come from the spaced pair and the close mic's will work good to add a bit of definition.

For the gong sound you are talking about, try switching the top and bottom hi hat around so the bottom is on the top. Another thing is to use a mic with a low cut filter pointed about 1 inch in from the edge and pointing away from the snare.

All of this of course is for recording drums. For live drums I would use an overhead pair of KSM32's.

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006

Jul 21, 2008 01:36 pm

I pan mine 30/30 as I like to keep the live stereo field going. The drums are never wider than guitars on stage as guitar amps are always to the left and right of the drums. I compress a tiny tiny bit, add some shimmer at 12k and above and cut around 400 to remove some of the gong. If I do roll em off, it's at ~100.

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Jul 21, 2008 08:34 pm

thanks people, very helpful.
also Beerhunter, thanks for reminding me to change the hats, i've been using an open hat which is...well, open and loud, but, by you mentioning this, i remembered something.

I've been taking a loop and moding it myself to fit my riff. When you look at the hats in midi, they are different colours which indicate the power of the hit itself. What i have done is grab any ol hit, in this case from the snare and duplicating it and wacking it in as hats.
So the hats come out with that super intensity of the snare the whole time.
if ya look at the hats in a loop, you'll see hard hit (red) and like a ghost hit (purple) and i think there's one in between that as off red.
So there ya have it, a nice piece of useless/useful info for ya. I think its definatley the wrong choice of hat also. So cheers for that Beerhunter.

Kaos62, yes i do have a room mic on EZD and a couple of others too, they really give the drums that roundy/punch. i like em.
i really should read the documentation of EZD and find out what the others are.
just overheads i would think.

Tim the Enchanter
Member
Since: Feb 17, 2008

Jul 24, 2008 07:25 pm

Well I haven't had a problem with the hi-hat volume. I'm checking one of my better mixes (relatively speaking) and it looks like I'm using the 16" Zildjan crash hats. Yeah you should be able to just turn the hi-hat fader down if it's still too loud.

I have had a problem with the left cymbal being too quiet in EZD though. It only gives me one fader for the OHs so I'm not sure how to turn up the volume for the left side only. I've just been going to the drum roll editor in Cubase and adding more velocity to the hits to make it a little louder. Maybe I'll try to add a bit of compression on the OHs.

I'm still trying to learn this whole drum mixing thing. Even with EZD its not easy!

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Jul 24, 2008 07:56 pm

hey there Redneck Samurai, in your yer drum editor, what colour are the cymbals you say are a bit too soft?


Tim the Enchanter
Member
Since: Feb 17, 2008

Jul 24, 2008 08:39 pm

Everything is red. They're set to the same velocity as the other cymbal but they are much quieter in volume.

I generally try to write an original drum part with the drum editor so all the hits are the same volume. Then I'll manually adjust the volume in certain parts that I think need it to sound more natural. And I throw on a random velocity on the whole track with a minimum of -10 and a maximum of 0.

That one cymbal seems to be so much quieter no matter how I have my EZ mixer set.

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Jul 25, 2008 07:29 am

im using the "drumkit from hell" and i have a cymbal similar. If you use a straight loop with the offending cymbal does it still do it?

Im thinking the one you mentioned, is used for exclusively softer hits.
As long as you have 2, i suppose that's all ya need.
here's a thought, have you tried changing to different cymbals? im yet to try it myself.

Im currently working the editor for a Metallica cover, its a great program but when it comes to really covering a song like this as much as possible, no program is easy.

really gotta buy me some drum mics and just do it the right way.

> > > overheads mixing question

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