should i work with pro tools?
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Posted on Mar 21, 2008 02:23 pm
capellino
Member Since: Dec 06, 2007
i have been mixing and recording for over two years now..and i am ready to open my own profesional studio...
should i work with pro tools?
i have done a massive research..and i saw that the most powerfull and known studios in the world record with pro tools..should i go with hd1 or hd2 pro tools system..
i dont like hearing an opinion and go for it cause somebody esle tells me ..but every great producer i like works only with pro tools...i must say i never used them.why they are so expensvive?and why the are so much better? to be more spacific..i have a mac pro,cubase 4 and an d rme fireface 800 and lots of mic preamps such as avalon .rme.focusrite and neve...i d like to hear some opinions please
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Mar 21, 2008 02:32 pm Many of them work with it only cuz they have little choice...they don't necessarily want to. High end studios often send project to different studios for different phases of the process...they all use PT cuz they always have and they then have a universal format with which to share.
You can take it or leave it, PT won't do anything for you that any other app won't. It's a matter of personal preference and how deep of pockets you have.
if you don't plan on sharing with other studios, don't bother, even if you do, there are other ways.
Mar 21, 2008 10:01 pm It sounds like you could afford it. I'd say, if you have the space, go for it. You probably won't need more than an HD1 to start but you need an A/D converter along with that. For about $12000. You'd have the HD1 card and a 16 channel I/O or you could spend your money on an Apogee equivalent A/D converter. You've already got some very nice pres.
The RME is already a nice interface though and unless you're working on more than 48 tracks, you could just buy a Mbox2 Mini and use it as a dongle. Import your tracks to a ProTools LE session and mix or export your session file to mix on a full blown ProTools studio.
It's really a matter of necessity at this point. If it's going to make you money, go for it.
Mar 22, 2008 04:14 am i dont wanna brag but yes i can afford it ..but that doesnt mean i want to spend money for things that wont matter at the end...if pro tools wont give me a better result than cubase..why should i buy them?
is pro tools so much expensive cause it has all the plugins for its own...
isnt it the same to work with cubase and basicly the same plugins...?
Mar 22, 2008 07:18 am No, it will not give you a better product. You make the product good, not the gear.
Keith WarrenMans reach exceeds his graspMember
Since: Oct 23, 2007
Mar 22, 2008 12:10 pm No, you don't need pro tools. You've got it good with what you've got.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Mar 22, 2008 12:19 pm True. It's the operator not the equipment but, as I said, many people expect protools. If it will make you money, that is the bottom line. It can give you a better product though IMHO.
2 reasons:
1-track count: With an HD1 or HD2 system you can get insanely high track counts at very high resolutions. 24 tracks at 96kHz on an HD1. I don't know that you could do that with the Firface.
2-Plugins: PERSONALLY, I think the average RTAS plug sounds better than the average VST. That and the dsp power virtually eliminates any latency issues.
But this is just my opinion. Lot's of people don't use ProTools. For compatibilities sake, most Pro studios use them.
DiemusikString benderMember
Since: Unknown
Mar 22, 2008 03:09 pm This is always a very polarized discussion. You always have the folks that maintain ProTools is still king and as far as it being in a lot of pro studios that is true. The reality though is that software like Sonar is far more flexible and will produce results just as professional. With Sonar you are only limited in track count by what your computer can handle, aftermarket plug-ins actually work and almost all aftermarket hardware works with it. You're not stuck with only using "Digi" gear. Frankly I'm one who is ready to put the whole mac/protools superiority myth to bed. They may have had the edge at one time but that time is gone. Yes ProTools will allow you to produce "pro" results but so will just about any other program out there these days. My question is this, is it worth all of that extra money just to be compatible with Joe Blows studio down the street?
Mar 22, 2008 07:59 pm What kind of music are you recording?
I'll say that the Mac/HD2 rig I used to work on crashed A LOT less than my PC Cubase rig, and that I've heard some very crap sounding recordings coming out of a SSL 9K w. a great room, great players, great outboard, great mics, and HD3. One of them was mine :-).
If you've been using something else for 2 years, I'd stick with it, especially if you're happy with the results.
If money was not an option, I'd pick HD 7 and whole lotta plug ins over Cubase SX3 anyday, but thats rarely the case.
Mar 23, 2008 02:47 am i am recording mostly metal punk and rock bands..but i think that is not the issue..i want to make a pro studio...and i see tha every pro studio in the world works with pro tools...i love the new cubase 4 and my preamps...i get i cool sound...but i am asking u guys cause i never worked with pro tools..if i was i will had an opinion.....i see mostly tha is a marketing thing..i am in my final stages to open my studio...and every body ask if i will work with pro tools...most of the doenst know what pro tools can or cant do..they just only heard that they are great and all the band that they hear record with pro tools..i dont know what to do..i just dont want to start all over again...to learn the new gear and the new software..i thing that will take me a little back at my work.
Keith WarrenMans reach exceeds his graspMember
Since: Oct 23, 2007
Mar 23, 2008 04:30 am If you plan on exporting your music to other studios with the intent of then mixing or recording other parts of the song there, ProTools may be a valid option- but only if you're ready to buy all your mixers, plug ins, and other proprietary equipment from vendors who deal with ProTools.
You can get as many tracks out of any software you want, so long as your computer can handle it- that goes for Cubase, Sonar, Adobe, etc. Just as dB said, it's NOT the equipment, it IS the person running it. RTAS has no noticeable edge on VST in my humble opinion. I work with both on a daily basis and there's honestly no difference. I would suggest getting a Waves Bundle, but otherwise it's all about what you put into it.
DieMusik said it best- this is a very polarlized discussion. You're going to hear different thing from everyone, an all of them are right. But they're also wrong. It's a subjective matter.
If ProTools is within your price range and you're seriously considering it, I'd say the best thing for you to do is go to a studio that uses it and watch them for a couple days and ask yourself if there's anything they're accomplishing with ProTools that you can't accomplish with what you've got right now. All other hardware aside, focus on the ProTools. Make your own decision. Personally, you're perfect with what you have. Other may have other input or may not agree, but in the end it's up to you and your wallet. And I know I wouldn't spend that much on it.
That's just me though.
Just sayin.
Mar 23, 2008 05:19 am Protools HD has indeed a lot of advantages over the other softwares, i may seem as a digidesign sales person but believe me im not, ill just name some of them:
1.- DSP proccesing to handle a lot of plug-ins, its very useful for example when you are mixing in 5.1 for video.
2.- Chaining of interfaces, you can buy as many HD accel cards and interfaces and chain them togheter for let say a 160 inputs/160 outputs (physical), you can even mix formats for example 48 TRS outputs + 32 optical + 16 AES/EBU, etc..
3.- Delay compensation: All plug-ins process the signal, in this process a delay or latency occurs, some may have a very short delay of lets say 1 samples, but some others like linear phase eq's and compressors may have up to 6000 samples or more, if you add up, you may have a lot of latency, what happens is that you start having phase problems, in some cases that delay may even be so huge that things go out of tempo. Protools HD has a tool called "delay compensation" what it does is that it compensates this delay caused by plug-ins so no phase shifting occurs.
4.- I dont think AD converters are needed when using a 96i/o or 192, the converters in this interfaces are remarkable, an apogee may help but i think it just may be vanity.
5.- You may use old interfaces such as the digi 888, combined with the new 96i/o or whatever in order to save some $$$.
6.- Digidesigns hardware exchange program lets you upgrade your system to a newer one by paying only the difference and not the total value, this saves you the problem of selling before upgrading (this applies to every Digidesign's product not only the HD, for example you may exchange a digi001 + some money for a digi003).
7.- By using Protools you'll be in the industry standard, in my case, clients always bring protools sessions for mixing and ask for protools sessions when i record something and they want to mix it elsewere.
8.- Plug-ins and new utilities exclusively designed for protools, such as the McDSP plug-ins, the new Elastic Time function found on Protools 7.4, editing functions such as Tab to transient, etc,etc, the list goes on...
Downsides:
1.- The most important of all: Very, very, very, but very expensive (the big versions of Protools HD such as Extended, HD3, etc.., Even the cheapest one!! ha!)
2.- The plug-ins used for Protools HD are TDM (it also uses RTAS) and TDM plug-ins are way more expensive than the RTAS plug-ins, sometimes the same plug-in in TDM may even cost double the value of the RTAS version.
3.- You'll have to spend money for whatever aditional function you may need, for example you need to use midi?, spend big bucks buying the midi interface, you need more PCI inputs for the accel cards?, youll need to buy an external PCI expander and spend big bucks (around 2-2.5k), etc..
4.- Digidesign screws you over and over by selling you software features that some other software companies give for granted, for example the Digitranslator in order to export and import .OMF files, in the case of Protools LE you are voice limited, if you want to use more than 32 voices you'll have to buy the music production toolkit, or the dv toolkit in order to use timecode and this feature costs around 1200dlls, this doesnt applies to Protools HD as it has timecode already, but keep in mind that once you go into Protools you'll be spending ALL the time. You even have to pay in order to import and export MP3 files in Protools LE!!!!!.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 23, 2008 06:22 pm I'll just jump in here with why I don't use PT. I can in Sonar do all of the above without spending any extra cash. I have delay comp and don't have to pay extra for it. I use many top end DSP pluggins and if needed I simply add on the extra card or send the processing over to another PC to lighten the load which I usually don't have to do. I can also stack as many interfaces as I need for unlimited channels into Sonar so that is a moot point as well.
AS to number 6 in the list. Sure they give you trade in dollars. But what they are not telling you is they give you about 10 to 20% of what you can actually sell it for on the open market. Kind of a rip off really.
Number 7. Well that is just idiotic really, Industry Standard is no longer a PT only thing. I have been working with PT sessions for years and don't own PT. There are several ways to get around this without spending tens of thousands of dollars.
AS for all the extras you have to pay for. Well there is my point exactly. I don't have to pay for any of it as it is all inclusive in Sonar so no need to buy 30 extra pluggins to do what I need done.
Mar 23, 2008 11:56 pm Noize, i noticed very often in other threads that you have a certain "anger" against protools, and i think you have your own valid reasons.
Regarding the hardware exchange let me just say that you should get better informed, because i just exchanged an old 888 (400-600 dlls on ebay) plus 5000 dlls, for a Protools HD1 (10,000 retail value), now i think they are not giving me 10-20% of the value, just the opposite they gave me more than i could ever gained by selling it on ebay.
I know we all have our favorite "stuff" call it hardware, plug-ins or software, but the truth is that Protools in fact is the standard, whether you like it or not. Im not saying that you can't work around without protools, its just going to be more problematic and time consuming having to convert Protools sessions to Sonar sessions and viceversa, at least in my experience, everytime i go to any pro studio they have Protools as their main software, even if you find it idiotic.
Mar 24, 2008 04:57 am yeap...that why i ll buy pro tools...there is no other way..i dont want to lose clients..i think that the clients themselves expect to go to the studio and see the pro tools software..most of them dont know the characteristics of pro tools but every body have heard that pro tools is the best..and i think they will find it strange if i dont work with pro tools..i never worked with pro tools i said earlier..but...every pro studio in the world uses pro tools..that gotta tell u something..
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Mar 24, 2008 12:45 pm I have recorded on pro tools, it was a nice setup, just espensive. I will say that most of the "advantages" listed are bogus as other systems do the same thing. Pro Tools setups run really nice from my experience, but it seems many false beliefs are always floating around.
I think of PT as the MAC of DAW systems. Works really well, very proprietary, and expensive.
1. I can buy DSP cards and still have money left over. There DSP processing is nice, don't get me wrong, but it can be had on other setups.
2. Motu, Echo, many interface makers out there allow chaining for a ridiculous amount of inputs without caring what format they are.
3. Adobe Audition has fantastic delay compensation and is $350.
4. Line6 uses the same converters as the Apogee Ensemble in their new UX8.
5. Motu and others do this also.
6. Cool service indeed. Although I think the "some money" would probably be enough to buy a rig (or two) from another company without giving them my old one.
7. True.
I'm not anti-PT, I would love one of those setups. I would rather spend my money elsewhere though.
Also, losing clients because you don't have a pro tools setup is ridiculous. I can tell you as an artist that your CD portfolio (end result) is what's going to make my decision, not which hardware your running.
Mar 24, 2008 01:39 pm You are right CptTripps,your decision should be based on the CD portfolio and not the gear used, but the problem is that some people out there really do not understand the recording process (and dont even want to understand it) so big fat consoles, rack gear, and Protools in fact reinforce the stereotype of good sound and the recording studio they are used to see in magazines and movies.
Capellino, ill say that if you have the money and you feel that you need a Protools HD, go get it , you wont be disappointed.
Mar 24, 2008 01:54 pm yeah..i ll do that..cause that is the case...most people dont know what the recording button does...but the ecpect to work with pro tools....and its so that i wont be disapointed...so i ll go for it...i know that i will find many setup tha will be similliar..but i think that wont be better...but i havent work with pro tools much and i know that i will buy the hd2 system..but i dont know what interface i ll buy?should i ll buy the 192
witch they say its the best converter in the world.. or two 96?
cause i have lots of analoge preamps..and i dont think the 192 will have many inputs..i think it has 8 ..and 8 more if u buy the expansion card...
and i can only record 16 chanels the most i think..and i have also a digital preamp the rme micstasy ..that i ll connect it with adat so i ll have 24 inputs..but i can record 24 chanels or not...that is the thing i dont know..
Mar 24, 2008 02:33 pm I think a 96 is more than enough, if you want the 192, well even better. Just have in mind this, a protools HD interface may have up to 16 channels with the expansion card, each accel card may handle up to 32 channels, the cool thing about this interfaces is that you can customize them for example, you can ask for a 96 with 8 analog ins/outs and 8 digital AES/EBU ins/outs, or 16 digitals or 16 analogs, or whatever. If you want more than 16 ins/outs you'll need to add another interface, and if you want more than 32 tracks you'll need to add another interface and another accel card. To simplify it: 16 channels max per interface, 32 channels max per card, this is the golden rule.
Mar 24, 2008 07:21 pm For more to chew on, Apogee makes the X-HD for the AD/DA 16x's to buy instead of the HD96's/192's and accel cards, if you were going the Apogee route...
www.apogeedigital.com/products/xcards.php
I love radar!!!
DiemusikString benderMember
Since: Unknown
Mar 24, 2008 07:46 pm I really hate to see anyone blow all of that money just for name recognition. To each their own I guess. Either way you will be recording and that whats important in the end. Best of luck!
Mar 24, 2008 07:50 pm Me too, but I knew he'd go for ProTools with his first post, he was suckered into PT long before this post...lots of folks are, it makes me laugh cuz it's not my money...just a waste of theirs.
I find it funny he even asked because he had no intention of buying anything else from the beginning.
Wasn't this the same guy that came here a couple months ago to start a pro studio with virtually no recording knowledge at all but was sure he's run one...admittedly, I may have him confused with somebody else...
Nothing against being a newbie, we all were at one point, but when people continually ask questions, then ignore everything their told, well, it says a lot about the mind set.
ProTools may not turn off prospective clients but a newbie producer that has no idea how to use the tools in front of them will...Protools will not give a professional product, experience and knowhow does.
Mar 24, 2008 08:12 pm Well, i dont think he was ignoring everything you guys told him, i think he was trying to gather different opinions because he was planning on buying a Protools HD, so after all he decided to go on with Protools, so what?, by the way i've noticed that things in this forum start to get hot when a PT threads appears, in a way its cool because its more like watching a football game with a friend from the other team HA!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 24, 2008 08:38 pm Whats really funny is I work in and with some very high end studio from around the globe. Just to put a round number up I'll say out of 50 of them only 5 actually run PT in their main room's. And only a handful actually even run PT at all.
I as well can simply sit back and chuckle at the fact so many seem to think it is the be all end all in DAW's. I along with many others would just as soon put that money into other gear or software to make for a better experience for my clients. And in the long run save them a ton of money as I can do the same things and give them the exact same end product and not have to worry about paying for a system that is the price of a second house.
Mar 24, 2008 09:03 pm Quote:
Well, i dont think he was ignoring everything you guys told him
Yes, he was, and has several times in the past. No, I don't really care that he chose ProTools, I don't really care what anyone uses, if it works, it works, they all do the same things...no big deal to me. I certainly don't care enough to get hot.
What I find annoying is when it's some newbie that bases his opinions on what he reads in a trade mag or hype magazine...which is what this guy does.
If it's an intelligent, well researched choice, it's an entirely different matter.
It doesn't matter to me in the least.
Mar 24, 2008 09:05 pm Quote:
Just to put a round number up I'll say out of 50 of them only 5 actually run PT in their main room's. And only a handful actually even run PT at all.
In my case is the opposite, only some of them use digital performer and none of them uses sonar, thats in my experience. But hey dont worry Noize if Sonar digs you its ok, diversity is what makes us unique.
Mar 24, 2008 09:11 pm Quote:
Yes, he was, and has several times in the past
Sorry i didnt know that he did that in the past, and i agree with you that opinions based on magazines or whatever are just lame, but hey if he is a newbie its very easy to look over different places and in a certain way trust what you read in magazines in order to gain knowledge because its part of the process of learning what you like and what you should do in order to get it.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 24, 2008 10:45 pm I do agree that it depends on where you've been as to who might be using it. Funny enough I don't know any of them that us DP at all. Its almost as bunged up as Logic when it gets right down to it. Very un-intuitive to learn.
I've used just about everything here and always have gone back to Cakewalks stuff because it is all wrapped up int one nice package. I don't need to spend an extra 10k on things I need to add to make it fully functional.
But I digress. As you stated to each his own. And if you have the cash to burn then burn away, it ain't my money.
Mar 24, 2008 11:11 pm Each to their own man's. Once upon a time I would have given my left nut for an HD rig no matter what anyone said, but I learned with experience, and now I'm glad I have two testicles and a radar 24.
Its still hard to believe that PT is not the bees knees when you look at every major studio's inventory.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 24, 2008 11:41 pm I agree completely with CS. If I were to ever leave Sonar or add another form of recording it would be to add Radar. I used to run their older set up when they were owned by Otari. They were the premium digital recording format for years. A Radar system can blow the doors off PT at any level. And its much easier to use and get along with. A much more suitable price as well.
Mar 25, 2008 04:49 am Mmmm Radar. Noize, I've got a 24 classic with controller and I'm saving for a Trident 70's series. Yummy :-D. Btw, shoot me an email if you hear of any 70's/TSM 10K or under for sale. Theres this one up on www.soundbroker.com but I can't get a hold of that Jan Landy character. Eternally grateful.
Mar 25, 2008 06:31 am you should not work with pro tools.
Mar 25, 2008 08:02 am first of all..i am not a newbie...
second.
db masters...i think u have a very high opinion about yourself ..and i dont like people like u....i have seen your gear...and its lousy..and i dont judge cause u dont have the money to buy a better gear..i agree that u make the result and not the software..but a good gear and software is nessecery....u cant make the same result with sonar and a presonus blue tube preamp to sound like the same from with an avalon preamp or neve and pro tools..hardware matter...!if u like it or not...and if know all the things u say u know u ll agree....i dont like u..and u dont like me cause u wish u had my gear...so dont bother helping me anymore..i ll take some advices from people that are not full of themselves..and their eyes are wide open....its a coincidence that every pro producer and studio work with pro tools
and if u must know..the last 2 days i was with a friend that has tha hd1 and the software rocks hard...
i told u i like cubase 4 and i think i canme make great stuff..specially with the gear i will have soon...but i should go with pt cause its the best thing for my studio..
why is there so much hate in here for pro tools...its a recording forum...not an antiprotools recording forum...
pro tools its the most known and best program in the world right know and all of u know it...why all of u are like that..from all the replies...1 or 2 people had good things to say about pro tools
i am not a mean guy..but i dont like the way some of u here treat me..
i open a topic to discuss what u think about pro tools...if i knew that some of u will be like that ...i wouldent have done it..
i love music..and i will the best i can be..and i know that practice and ecpirience does the trick...but i want to have the best stuff too...and the best stuff makes the differece ..
i was recornding the voc for example from and rme mictasy preamp and a shure sm58...and know that i got the avalon tube preamp and a neumann..u87..the vocals are so clear like glass...
and the last thing...i ve heard the sound of the 192 i/0
and believe u me...u cant get a better sound in the world......and thats a fact
Mar 25, 2008 08:52 am hahahahaha
Insulting me with baseless accusations won't change anything...the gear I have is quite nice and I have chosen what I have based on the fact music is a hobby for me, not a profession, I could have ProTools if I chose to, instead, I choose to have a better home, nicer cars, a retirement account, college money for the kids and the like.
The best stuff makes a difference only if the person knows how to use it. I am a mastering engineer, it's what I know best, I won't even begin to claim I know how to get the best from tracking gear. I have worked with most every major application and loads hardware over the last 20 years and am slowly getting out of it in favor of other career directions, I am not trying to convince anyone I am something I am not, and anyone can take or leave my opinion as they see fit, I don't care. I certainly don't claim to know everything, and I won't, but I have developed opinions and I will share them as I see fit.
I never said I don't like you, I don't know you, if you don't like me that's fine, the only thing I don't like is when people waste a lot of people's time by asking questions they already know the answer to.
Many pros (obviously not all) use ProTools today for the same reasons that large tier-1 retailers still have mainframe applications, it's legacy gear they often can't shake...I have no hatred for ProTools at all, because you can get a great sound out of it, it's fine gear, great gear, actually. What I don't like is the obscene money they ask for it because while it is great gear that gives great sound, it gives no better sound than Cubase, Sonar, Vegas and many other apps available for far less, and they were not around when PT got it's start and took the market. PT is losing marketspace to these others, but, like anything, nothing comes quickly. it's not about hating PT here, HRC is, and always has been about the best product for the best price. ProTools IS NOT that. It does make the mark for a "best product" for sure, but not the "best price" category by any stretch.
As far as wishing you I had your gear...well, over the past two years I have sold most of my gear because I don't need it for my mastering work, and I don't track much any more, it's a hobby and I didn't want to waste all the money and room on stuff I don't use.
So, don't bother trying to insult me to try to accomplish anything, even if you are not a newbie, you certainly are acting like one. Based on the questions and opinions you've asked over the last few months, you certainly are a newbie to recording. What you should understand is that THAT ISN'T AN INSULT, it is not a bad thing to be a newbie, the bad thing is pretending your not and yet making yourself look like one. Admit it, ask question, accept answers, get the info, make choices and move on...
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Mar 25, 2008 09:04 am McDonalds makes food that could gag a maget, but people still flock to them. GM has made cars for years that will pre-maturely detonate, but people still heard to Chevy. Harley makes a bike that you have to follow with a truck full of tools, but people need to be seen on one. Most musicians don't hang out on the top branches of the Christmas tree either. Ya got pro tools? No I use Cubase. (dull dissipointed) Oh. Getting your foot in the door as a salesman is the biggest step you have to make. Pro Tools will do a lot in that endevor. You can still turn out a good recording with PT, they havn't degraded in riding their name to the point where they are greatly inferior to others, although I personaly think Cubase is better. Were I to set up shop and try to make any serious money with my studio I would find a way to make the investment.
DiemusikString benderMember
Since: Unknown
Mar 25, 2008 11:36 am "u cant make the same result with sonar and a presonus blue tube preamp to sound like the same from with an avalon preamp or neve and pro tools..hardware matter...!if u like it or not.."
You are absolutely correct with this statement but we were not discussing mic preamps here. If you put that same avalon in front of Sonar as Protools you will not hear the difference. I personally do not hate Protools but I think they are WAY over priced and over hyped. And we haven't even got into the fact that it takes a months worth of tech support to even get close to running an aftermarket soft-synth on Protools. I have read the long painfull grumblings on the BFD boards about that one too. By all means you should spend your money how you will but do it knowing that just because you spent top dollar you did not necessarily get the best gear for your money.
Mar 25, 2008 11:52 am I would like to add that myself, I suspect many people here are not "anti-protools", I am certainly not. The only thing(s) I dislike about it are the price and the stranglehold it places the user in. If you are willing to spend the money on the system, and have no worries about the stranglehold, then it's your call.
For 95% of HOME recording setups (which is what this site is for) ProTools is not a necessity. I dare say the VAST majority of home recording setups could be well served with a M-Audio card and Sonar Home edition.
It's not the choice of protools that got me worked up here, it's the tactics of the chooser...not in this thread but over the months.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Mar 25, 2008 12:18 pm ProTools, Sonar, Cubase, Acid, Reaper & Radar etc. are tools. Thats it. They are just tools. You can go to your hardware store and buy the most expensive hammer you can find but that doesn't mean you can build a great house with it. I suppose you could also say that with the latest version of Photoshop you can be a great graphic artist. Perhaps if you buy a top of the line Les Paul, you would be a better guitar player.
If you require interoperability with other studios that use PT then you will probably need PT. If the other studios are using Sonar or w/e then you will probably need Sonar. If you feel you are going to lose business if you don't have PT then buy it. None of this means you have to use PT as your main workstation. Bottom line is to use whatever "tool" you need to get the job done quickly and professionally.
Mar 25, 2008 12:19 pm i agree that is overpriced..i think i like spending money here and there....but i think its necessery nowdays ..cause people ecpect to work in pro tools...and they dont now what every program does...but they head that pro tools is the best..and besides that..i think there is a reason that they are so much overpriced...maybe cause its the better from the rest..i dont lose anything by giving it a shot..if i see that i doesnt work for me or most of mu clients dont give a **** with what software i work on i ll sell them on ebay..but maybe i ll love it..and will work for me...i ll see and i ll tell u in a few months
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Mar 25, 2008 12:28 pm Quote:
maybe cause its the better from the rest.
Sorry but this is not true. At one time it was true but not any longer.
Keith WarrenMans reach exceeds his graspMember
Since: Oct 23, 2007
Mar 25, 2008 12:56 pm See, this is exactly why we havn't sent BeerHunter to the tribal council yet; we need him on the island.
Couldn't have been put any better BH.
Mar 25, 2008 01:12 pm ProTools is not just Software. It's hardware. 9 dsp chips per HD PCI card. Not just one Power PC chip as in the UAD1 and other similar cards. This is what accounts for the high track numbers at high resolutions. This is also why you can add 4 cards for up to 96 or more tracks at 96kHz or even more tracks at lower resolutions. Your CPU power is almost a non-issue with an HD system.
Yes you can get great quality from any other software. The more tracks you use, the higher the resolution, the more plugins, these are all dependant on your cpu power. A single dsp card won't help you much with this.
I love cubase. I've been using it since it came on two floppies and only worked on the Atari systems. MIDI only. I still use Cubase and moreso Tracktion 3 these days but I don't deal with Pro Studios.
However, EVERY Pro Studio in my area(within a 50 mile radius) uses ProTools. I'm not talkin about "pro" studios. I mean Production studios with a track and client list that you probably own examples of in your cd and dvd collection. Probably several in your classic collection.
Mar 25, 2008 01:25 pm Quote:
maybe cause its the better from the rest.
10 years ago I would have agreed, back then Cakewalk's audio engine sucked ***, Cubase was stupidly complicated, Nuendo didn't even exist...but in the last 10 years the playing field has been totally leveled out and the only difference between software packages (of the major players) is the price and what hardware you put in front of them.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Mar 25, 2008 01:45 pm I had a big post typed up but then I finally read the "you don't like me cause you wish you had my gear" line. I wish there was an ignore feature because 90% of what you say is ridiculous!!
Let's recap...
"I don't judge you because you don't have the money to buy better gear" - By assuming that he can't afford the gear you indeed.... judged him.
"Every pro producer and studio work with pro tools" - Yes they do, in the land of Pro Tools with rainbow waterfalls and gumdrop forests.
"I have been mixing and recording for two years and am ready to open my own professional studio" - That makes sense...
"Why is there such a hate for protools" - There isn't, there is hate for the price and proprietary aspect. Once again, you don't listen to what is said.
"PT is the best recording program in the world and you know it" - I don't think I need to comment on this.
"Hardware Matter" - Haha, my favorite one. Pro Tools is software, nobody is arguing that quality pre's won't make a difference.
Soooo.... If you want to waste your parents money then go ahead, I'm sure they will be proud. (See, I can make assumptions too!)
Sorry all, I am a tad angry and can take it no longer.
Mar 25, 2008 01:48 pm Quote:
Yes they do, in the land of Pro Tools with rainbow waterfalls and gumdrop forests.
Oh jeezuz, I almost peed my pants...
He's right tho, I am totally jealous poor ol' me can't afford the great gear he has, and all the chicks he gets, and the fast car and big house...
Sorry, that was uncalled for, I suppose.
Of course I did notice that my gear is "lousy" by his definition, so I suspect before long he'll be hanging out in those other forums where they sit and insult people that don't have ProTools rigs and Neumann microphones...
Keith WarrenMans reach exceeds his graspMember
Since: Oct 23, 2007
Mar 25, 2008 01:59 pm I vote we lock this thread and bar all "Do you think I should use ProTools" type threads; it almost always ends up with this result. Everyone is just so black and white about it... and people start to get personal as a coping mechanism for their shortcomings.
My ballot is cast.
Mar 25, 2008 02:10 pm hahahahahahah
hahahahahahahahahahah
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaa
u guys make me laugh....when i registerd here
i knew that it was a home recording forum..but i thoughy we could discuss sirious stuff
but i see..that u are indeed home recorders..and u dont know squad about pro stuff..so stay at your litte homes all of u pro wannabes and let the serious stuff for the pro;s
and one day...i ll be a pro....and thats a promise...
so.....so long u losers...i wont be in here anymore..cause u obviously dont know ****
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Mar 25, 2008 02:13 pm I am black and white about it for sure. I would rather link 4 MOTU HD192 interfaces and have 48 inputs with DSP processing all while being able to use any recording application and plugins I desire. All for less money.
That said, I see nothing wrong with protools and know 100% that it kicks *** as it used to dominate for a reason. Thing is, that reason is no longer valid.
P.S. Your "people start to get personal as a coping mechanism for their shortcomings" was you getting personal.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Mar 25, 2008 02:15 pm At least he spelled haha right...
Mar 25, 2008 02:20 pm Well. A poor attitude is a poor attitude and gets you nowhere on any forum. Two years certainly isn't enough to call yourself an engineer much less a pro. It's a tough industry. Only the best and the dirtiest get to the top. Which one would you like to be? That's a question we all like to avoid but one that we should all ask. Being good at what you do takes time. Being dirty creates enemies but get you there in a hurry. Eventually everyone is on to your game though and they drop you.....well. Speaking from experience on both sides of that fence. Not that I've been good or that I could ever claim to be good. I can't. I know I've been dirty before and I've been played dirty to though and I can tell you it doesn't pay.
Mar 25, 2008 02:20 pm Good luck, capellino, with that attitude I am sure you'll go far...and eventually figure out that we were right all along, the playing field is level...
That said, every now and then these threads come out quite good, as it is asked on a regular basis...mostly by people that were completely unaware other options even existed.
Keith WarrenMans reach exceeds his graspMember
Since: Oct 23, 2007
Mar 25, 2008 02:33 pm I disagree Tripps.. it was an observation. lmao
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Mar 25, 2008 02:39 pm Quote:
i wont be in here anymore
I have to say that I haven't been a big fan of his attitude from day 1...maybe its a cultural thing and we Americans/UK people interpret his attitude inaccurately. maybe Greeks just sound like ******** when translated into English. Whatever the reasons for our relationship to get to this point, I have to say that at least something good came out of this thread. Cya.
To quote Patton Oswalt:
Quote:
You're going to miss everything cool and die alone
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Mar 25, 2008 02:43 pm Sorry, last one.
"Let the serious stuff to the pro's"
I won't type as many haha's, but that is funny after doing a search for "capellino recording" and reading his threads in other forums I am at a loss for words.
www.rme-audio.de/forum/vi...id=1748&p=1
I guess in the end, the most genious people I know are very modest and I can't stand attitude from someone who thinks they are.
p.s. I kid man :) You are very observant and your tunes make my heart flutter. Also they sound very good, you must be on a PT system I assume? *zing*
Ok, I am done for real this time.
Keith WarrenMans reach exceeds his graspMember
Since: Oct 23, 2007
Mar 25, 2008 03:09 pm Busted.
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Mar 25, 2008 03:58 pm I already had a good day going, here... this thread just made it a 'great' day !
Mar 25, 2008 03:59 pm OK, I am going to lock this thread because from here it will just be a bash-fest at the expense of this Greek dude. Completely unproductive. Let's just chalk him up on the same list as "Mr ***** killer" is on...for those that remember that dude with the Mad Skillz, or walters who wanted to "hear through" his music.
Like those two, this guy will end up doing the same thing on many other forums...it's too bad, really.
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Mar 25, 2008 04:03 pm Dieing at this entire thread.
"so stay at your litte homes all of u pro wannabes and let the serious stuff for the pro;s"
holy ****, i couldn't stop smiling after reading that.
