Tired of playing in E minor scale.

> > > Tired of playing in E minor scale.

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Member Since: Jan 21, 2008

Hi,

I have a melody that I composed in E minor. After listening to a 16 bar variation of it, I don't think I can repeat it anymore because I'm getting tired of hearing the same old noted in the E minor scale.

I want to throw 2 or three notes in there that will surprise the listener. But how can I do so without making those notes sound out of key?

Are there other scales that go with the E minor scale?

Thanks in advance. This forum is amazing.

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http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Feb 06, 2008 09:01 pm

hey man,
honestly from my experience, work the fret board or whatever you use a bit, try some stuff and go by ear instead of whats technicly correct. if you really want to surprise the listener that is the way to do it.
as long as it sounds good or even better, it moves you, then it fits.
try some harmonies or even some diatonics. to me though technical words dont mean much, they are just descriptive, its your canvas, you put on it what you want.
Hope that helps.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003

Feb 06, 2008 09:27 pm

if you tell me what the chords are i can suggest some other notes

Time Waster
Member
Since: Jan 12, 2006

Feb 06, 2008 10:06 pm

There's many minor scales on 'E'... Which ones are you experimenting with? Harmonic, Melodic, Natural, Gypsy, Blues, etc...

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003

Feb 06, 2008 10:23 pm

it really depends on what chords are going on beneath your scale. there should be a few options, but some of them will occur at different times in the progression...

Answer:On a good day, lipstick.
Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004

Feb 07, 2008 12:50 pm

As Deon said, use your ears. I'm not technically gifted or trained. If something sounds cool, I use it. It may very well break all the rules of music and have Handel spinning in his grave.

Music is in the soul, not in books.

Time Waster
Member
Since: Jan 12, 2006

Feb 07, 2008 01:49 pm

Books just store information, it's always been up to the person who uses that information, whether it comes from books, friends, teachers or experimentation. I say use everything you can get...

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003

Feb 07, 2008 04:48 pm

he asked a pretty specific question and there's a way to answer it, so why not?

Answer:On a good day, lipstick.
Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004

Feb 07, 2008 06:10 pm

I hear you, Forty, but there's also the factor of experimenting and using your ears rather than saying 'tell me what to play.' Also, we don't have an idea of the feeling of the song. The genre might mean that a certain note will work, and another might not.

I'm sure Fripp never had that problem. Listen to some of his work. There are some odd notes at odd times in odd meters. They all work. Perhaps not everyone likes them, but they work in the context of the song. Coltrane did it too (perhaps he did it first). If we all stuck to theory, it'd be somewhat dull. Just trying to add some ideas.

The "Blues" scale uses notes from both the Minor and Major scales. That can lead to interesting notes. Harmonic Minor can be pretty cool. Try 'em all. It's what makes you feel good that counts.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003

Feb 07, 2008 07:53 pm

but he can still use his ear even while hearing about some specific effects certain notes could provide at different times.

with certainty i can say that flat 2 will work momentarily whenever the tonic chord is happening, unless it's just wrong for the genre.

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006

Feb 07, 2008 08:47 pm

Try one of these many scales... test some out until you find a scale that works with the feel of your song, then experiment with your ears. There is no wrong way.

jguitar.com/harmonizer/ch...=Em&chord=m

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003

Feb 07, 2008 09:12 pm

there are wrong ways, though. you can look at the chords of the song and write off certain scales right away.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003

Feb 07, 2008 09:14 pm

just a simple example: you COULD play an e major scale over an e minor tonic chord, but most of the time it's going to sound crappy.

either 'dumb' or 'rape me' by nirvana contains a third clash, though, actually. i've seen theory people ask about why it seems to work there, and they were saying that it's because the clashing note is in the voice and that it might not sound *** good if an instrument was playing it. who knows.

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006

Feb 07, 2008 09:45 pm

There is no wrong way to approach it.....

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003

Feb 07, 2008 11:10 pm

no, but there are notes that will tend to sound like crap

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006

Feb 07, 2008 11:19 pm

I simply provided some scales and a technique I use for coming up with harmony parts. "There is no wrong way" simply meant, whatever works for obtaining what you want.

I wasn't trying to join the debate between you and tallchap.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003

Feb 07, 2008 11:30 pm

in fact, if you play certain wrong notes, they shoot you.

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006

Feb 07, 2008 11:57 pm

Somebody should tell Tom Waits that.

I kid, rain dogs rocks!

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003

Feb 08, 2008 12:51 am

tom waits's wrong notes are either right notes mistaken for wrong ones, or else his waitsessness makes wrong notes sound right.

that don't mean you can, tho!

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006

Feb 08, 2008 11:29 am

He is quite genious imo, and I think both cases apply really. I understand notes on the edge of sounding bad, but I swear sometimes he plays a bad note that just works somehow. Rain Dogs the song is actually a good example.

Answer:On a good day, lipstick.
Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004

Feb 08, 2008 11:34 am

Quote:
I wasn't trying to join the debate between you and tallchap.

Were too.

Quote:
in fact, if you play certain wrong notes, they shoot you.

So how come Coltrane didn't get shot?

I played in a band once where one of the girl singers (we had two girl lead singers/acoustic guitar players) had the "perfect pitch" thing. I the guitar player or I ever missed a note her head would snap around. I sometimes got the impression that if she'd had a gun she would have fired.


Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006

Feb 08, 2008 11:46 am

Haha, I have been in band with someone like that, never again. I like things to be tight and sound nice but sometimes a certain level of precision is lost during live shows from simply rocking out.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Feb 08, 2008 11:54 am

Oh, yeah, ya gotta love the band member that makes sure the whole crowd knows it wasn't THEM that hit that bad note...funny thing is, 99% of the crowd never even knew it happened...

The last band I was in, me and the drummer would just look at each other and laugh if we fell out of sync for a second...every now and then I'd reach out and grab a cymbal he just hit and deaden it, his head would snap around wondering what happened, we'd meet eyes and laugh...

Gotta have fun with it...if you have fun, the crowd will have fun, if the crowd see's you pull a joke on a bandmate, they feel like part of the joke...it's all fun.

All in all, I'll take rocking out and having fun over precision perfection any day of the week...precision is for the studio, fun is for the stage.

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006

Feb 08, 2008 12:01 pm

Man DB, you just nailed it. If everyone is standing around making sure that every note\bend is 100% perfect the crowd will stand around too. If a band is having fun on stage, most likely the crowd will enjoy it more as they tend to feed of each other.

Then there are those guys that can nail everything 100% while rocking out, I am not that guy.

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004

Feb 08, 2008 12:04 pm

back on topic, I would suggest to mclir9 to capo at 2, then play everything in F# minor, just to hear it all in a different key.

It may punch a few new ideas, on some parts, that you can then drop back down to Em to see how they fit.


Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006

Feb 08, 2008 12:14 pm

What would you reccomend for sourberry then? :)

Prince CZAR-ming
Member
Since: Apr 08, 2004

Feb 08, 2008 12:22 pm

hee hee, whoops, a little bit of a long 2 days. mucho tired, and brain dead.

Answer:On a good day, lipstick.
Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004

Feb 08, 2008 01:46 pm

Quote:
All in all, I'll take rocking out and having fun over precision perfection any day of the week...precision is for the studio, fun is for the stage.

Exactly. That band is one of the biggest reasons that I don't do bands any more. Too much seriousness can sometimes ruin the mojo.

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003

Feb 08, 2008 06:35 pm

haha grabbing the cymbal...

one time i stood behind our overearnest singer and made faces at him.

MH
Member
Since: Feb 13, 2008

Feb 13, 2008 04:33 pm

E minor - there a couple variations on that scale, of course. I don't know which one you are using, but if it's the natural minor scale, I suggest adding a D# (major 7th) and potentially a Bb, which will give you a blue note.

Also, another thing you can do is alternate the Em scale with a B7 scale. B C# D# E F# G (natural here) A B

You can also play C and D natural in your B7 scale for added tension.

Have fun!

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Feb 14, 2008 06:31 am

those wrong notes that work you guys were talking earlier, they be

anti harmonies?

> > > Tired of playing in E minor scale.

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