Oct 29, 2006 06:25 am I lived in a haunted house for a few years of my childhood, I saw them, they watched me, we watched them, things moved around my room, it was creepy, my family thinks I'm nuts, I guess none of them saw it, but I did.
Halloween - Ghosts?
Posted on Oct 29, 2006 05:25 am
Hujambo
Member Since: Aug 13, 2005
Do they exist,have you or your family/friends seen one? One day I was fixing something on the car and had the bonnet up,it was misty and just going a bit dark when I felt a hand on my shoulder.When I looked round, nobody there!I was telling the Mrs about it and laughed it off.I was wearing a black T shirt at the time and the strange thing was,when it was washed a yellowy white hand print was on the shoulder! Spooky or what?
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Oct 29, 2006 06:25 am I lived in a haunted house for a few years of my childhood, I saw them, they watched me, we watched them, things moved around my room, it was creepy, my family thinks I'm nuts, I guess none of them saw it, but I did.
Oct 29, 2006 07:17 am I don't believe in ghosts. I still get spooked when I'm alone at night sometimes, but its an unfounded fear. I don't tend to believe in things unless I have first-hand proof.
Oct 29, 2006 08:28 am Well, I can't give you first handed proof, cuz I ain't you, but I can guarantee you without a single doubt or shred of disbelief, there ARE ghosts, spirits, poltergeists, or whatever you want to call them.
No question about it.
Oct 29, 2006 09:02 am [quote]Well, I can't give you first handed proof, cuz I ain't you, but I can guarantee you without a single doubt or shred of disbelief, there ARE ghosts, spirits, poltergeists, or whatever you want to call them.
No question about it.[/quote]
sounds like my wife. she believes in all that stuff. its very amusing.
Oct 29, 2006 09:10 am Wellllllll, ummmm, can't be sure about your wife, but with me it's not just "believing in them", they have stood right in front of me, walked about and moved things...and just generally made nuisances of themselves.
Laugh all you want, I found it all much less than amusing.
Oct 29, 2006 10:32 am then how come it started when we moved there and stopped when we moved out? Did I also imagine the pain I felt after I was struck by one in an event I'd rather not talk about?
It's real easy for people to write stuff off that they have not personally experienced as being in one's imagination, it's an easy to pretend it doesn't exist, well, it does.
Oct 29, 2006 11:35 am to you it does exist. to me it doesnt. there could be a lot of explainations for what you experienced and since it happened when you were a child. id say not to rule out other possibilities(health/mental).
Oct 29, 2006 12:30 pm No, you are wrong, things exist or they don't, the only difference is one's willingness to believe it, or care about it. You choose not to believe it or care about it, that doesn't change the fact of the existence or not.
Oct 29, 2006 12:59 pm Well I'm not one to tell people what to believe.All I know is that there are too mant unexplained things happen in this world.BUT with that being said,until I have first hand proof I will keep out of it
Oct 29, 2006 04:34 pm I believe in both ghosts and aliens. I've had 4 experiences between the two topics, and before they happened, I believed, but I must say, first hand experience will acquiesce most non-believers instantly. No all-out abduction or anything, but perceptive proof that 99% of humans wouldn't simply shrug off, that I can guarantee.
Oct 29, 2006 04:37 pm on the subject aliens, it seems to me anyone who thinks we are the only intelligent lifeforms in this entire cosmos is extremely self-important. I've had no personal "close encounters" but a couple distant ones.
Oct 29, 2006 04:46 pm I here ya, just don't kill us, I highly doubt we are the most cognitively intelligent beings in the universe, let alone most socially advanced.
2 Years ago, I moved out of a house built in 1912 that was out a ways in the country. I had a few ghostly sightings there as well as caught what I'd like to call "angelic voices" during a recording. I would post it but lost it when I lost a Samsung 60GB to bad sectors. Crazy thing is the guy I was recording was a devout Christian and we were recording the wind outside with massive wind screens etc. When he went outside to change the mic position, there were major choral cadences just before he approached, and then later when we were noth monitoring a recording. Tha mic was a condenser with about 200' of cord running out the back door. The story has more detail, but thats the basis. God can't hide well sometimes I guess ?
Oct 29, 2006 04:53 pm Count me on +1 for both.
The missus has seen and had lots of happenings on the ghost front, and i've had a few lesser ones myself.
A friend of mine moved into his house, and across the dirt road, watched a ship of some sort raise up, and leave, all alieny like. He won't speak much of it, though, due to ridicule. His wife was right there too, watched it with him.
Oct 29, 2006 05:02 pm how come there are no credible documented cases of ghosts? or are there? you can see them right? they move stuff right? yet theres no known video that i know of with ghosts in it? seems odd? if they exist wouldnt someone eventually capture some video? are there any sites with videos of ghosts? if so point me to them.
aliens possible.
Oct 29, 2006 05:34 pm xtc, you need to watch some of the educational channels on cable or satalite. There are several series out now dealing with just this subject. And yes, they have it on film, audio and various scanners of anomalies. I as well have had several experiances, both as a child and as an adult. None that threatened my life, or injured me in any way. All were however left a mark in some way.
My parents thought I was nuts as well untill my mother experianced what I had been experiancing for years in my tiny bedroom with one door leading to the attic and one door leading to what used to be a widows walk and was turned into a make shift upper porch. This house was one of the first houses built near the lakes in Minneapolis in Minnesotta. It was an old farmhouse, by then it was surounded by complete neighborhoods. I did not find out untill long after the altercations happened. So my experiances were not influanced by prior knowledge of the events. The things that happened were unexplainable by common everyday happenings. These were as dB stated, things moving, voices, the attic floor being walked on. The back window opening in the middle of the night in the attic. Farm noises, in the middle of the city??
So, you may not believe as you have never been a part of it. But there are and will continue to be things that we cant explian. And those of us who have experianced them allready believe.
Oct 29, 2006 05:43 pm well, there's some contention there. I just watched a thing on cable last week. two guys were sitting in the basement, waiting for this ghost to show itself.
It eventually set off this big blue light, that both of them saw, and watched it leave.
Then they checked the tape, and there was nothing there.
I'm inclined to not have a problem with this, as the ethereal properties may not be something picked up by our normal photography practices. There are other people who claim to have cameras that photograph the aura, and you can see the difference from person to person. Maybe there's something there along those lines.
But I'm like dB, after you have things happen, or you hear things, or see things, you know you didn't imagine it, and basically accepted it as normal, real life, then you realize it was something else, you tend to believe.
One of my experiences:
The missus and myself were living in an upstairs flat in dearborn, suburb of detroit. I was sitting on couch, looking towards the TV, say, staright out in front of me. The kitchen is behind me, mostly. The missus is in the kitchen. As I'm watching TV, I see her (the missus) walk from the kitchen to the baby's room, which is around 30degrees on the right. I didn't look up from the TV, but peripherieally (sp?) I see her walk to the bed room.
I get up and walk into the bed room, and start saying something to her, but once i'm in the room, I realize she's not in the room. She's still in the kitchen, looking perplexedly at me.
This I would consider being a ghost, of some sort, or spirit, walking around our flat, that I happened to be able to see for the minute.
I guess I can understand people's reservations: as easy as it is to assume it's a ghost, one can also assume it's imagination, or something similar.
But, there's other happenings of actual things moving, more that one person seeing things, etc. that, to me, cement the existence of spirits, etc.
=0, fun topic =0
Oct 29, 2006 08:04 pm pjk interesting but whos to say it wasnt a quick dream? you could have dozed off and it could have been a dream. ive had stuff like that happen where you fall asleep really quick and wake up sudden after a visual dream all in the matter of minutes.
Oct 29, 2006 08:21 pm xtc, I know there is nothing to change your skeptacism. But I can tell you this. In my case, it was never a dream playing out in my head. And yes, I'm aware that dreams that seem to be hours, even days long are only seconds long in reality. But seeing as I'm one of those few who actually dream in vivid living color, I have a tendancy to remember clearly what was in a dream. And believe me, I know the differance between what I dreamed, and what happened during waking hours.
So you can remain skeptical, and come up with all the explanations you would like. But it doesn't change the reality of it. Hopefully you wont be one to have a first experiance, with maybe a horribly wicked entity! But maybe that would make a believer out of you. Having some cold abberision touch you and shake you from deep sleep in the middle of night. Possibly tossing a few of your valuables around the house or room. But even playfull spirits can go too far sometimes when trying to seek attention of the living.
Oct 29, 2006 08:38 pm nah, this was in a matter of seconds. like talking to the missus, looking at the tv, noticing her walking to the other room, me getting up to follow her in, to find her not there. pretty much that fast.
matter of, maybe 10 or 20 seconds. and being coherent the whole time, and afterward. me and her were both standing there, kinda dumbfounded.
and no, we weren't on any drug or drink. I heard you thinking it =).
side note: i had a dream in a dream a few nights ago. That was a puzzle trying to remember what was what, because it was layered. I had a hard time keeping things straight.
And I dream in color too, most of the time.
Like I said, the missus has had many more, and much more disturbing experiences with the other side. Some throwing stuff off the walls, or moving chairs, with 2 or 3 people in the room, some standing her up in bed, with her sister in the room watching this, etc.
so you could say we're certainly convinced.
Another neat thought for you'se to ponder. I don't see much difference between aliens and ghosts. Ghosts being ethereal, and aliens being able to be ethereal, so the two can seem similar, to the point of sometimes being hard to discern between which kind you're experiencing.
Not to say all existences are this way, but I do feel that it's possible, and happens.
Oct 29, 2006 09:45 pm ill never believe without evidence simple as that. my wife believes all this stuff along with psychics and yadda. i just laugh at her and i say show me the money baby! i want proof. lets go to a psychic if he predicts one thing ill believe! hahahaha its all b.s. there is no link from the next life to this one and if there was we would all experience it on a regular basis.
i think all of you have dosed at one point and are having flashbacks. i think db just maybe is exaggerating a childhood fear.
Oct 29, 2006 10:56 pm My 2 cents guys, im an athiest, but i do believein ghosts, is that its more scientific to BELIEVE in ghosts and aliens then to not. To think that the energy that makes us live and think just disappears into nothingness without rhyme or reason is something even Einstein didn't believe. No need for abduction to tell you that in the vastness of space, with its stars and systems, all probability is that their is life out there. Its probably trillions of times more probable there is life in space then there isnt.
And as for ghosts, even if you dont believe in spirits and such, ppl's brain work with electricity and energy, when you think ur sending electrical currents through ur body. Electricity is energy and as even skeptics have to agree, energy only changes form and never is destroyed. How is it that the same energy that is working in your body, couldn't work in another medium.
I think its more "supersitious" to not believe in thigns and cast them off so easily, when EVERYDAY science is discovering things we thought were impossible.
Oct 30, 2006 04:17 am ghosts may exist to db. but for db to convince the rest of us, he would need something more than a firsthand account. those by definition prove nothing to anyone, other than to the person who experiences them.
but that, of course, would not equal objective evidence. and there has never been objective evidence. which of course leads me to ask 'why not?' occams razor suggests a more prosaic explanation for supernatural agents.
Oct 30, 2006 04:22 am crux, you can believe in ghosts, but to say it's more scientific to believe in them is nonsense. it is never--ever--more scientific to believe in a thing with no testable evidence at all.
ghosts cannot be disproven by science, and neither can god. these are classes of things that can never be disproven with complete surety (there are an infinite number of things which can never technically be disproven, including pink unicorns and thor). but it is in fact not scientific to believe in ghosts: what you're doing in your post above is something close to stoned speculation. that kind of 'evidence' doesnt count in the world of science. and the properties of energy (that it can neither be created or destroyed) does not automatically lead to a proof for ghosts, sorry.
that said, please realize i'm not criticizing anyone's beliefs here. i'm just criticizing claims about those beliefs as science itself would criticize them. ghjosts might be real: but to say that it's scientific to believe in them now is utter nonsense. not until there's a piece of evidence that science just cannot explain, and which is not based on a first person account.
Oct 30, 2006 07:23 am Couldn't have said it better myself Forty.
Oct 30, 2006 07:27 am I will say this, I do agree with forty that it's kinda silly to say which is more scientific, believing or disbelieving. To me, it some things that have happened to me first hand, something I KNOW to be true based on personal experience more than once. Whether or not somebody else believes is moot as far as that goes.
Nothing to do with science at all, just what I have seen and experienced.
Oct 30, 2006 08:52 am Just for conversation here, forty knows more about science than me, but this is just my own rationale. But if we stopped believing in things just because of science wouldn't that leave out alot of things we already know. Like i said before, there were alot of things 50, 100, 1000 years ago that we just couldn't prove. Coz we didn't have technology for it? Or maybe becoz we all thought it was so impossible we just decided not to explore it. I realize ghosts and ghouls r pretty low on teh list of things we might discover, but to the very first scientist in history, im sure his experiment sounded alot like chasing ghosts at the time.
I guess im just arguing to not close off anything just by the limitations of their definitons and the limits of science at the time.
Oct 30, 2006 11:21 am I grew up in a spiritualist household. I have first hand experience on many occasions where I have seen/felt/talked to/been talked through/captured audio etc. etc. etc.
My personal experience and belief is YES. 100%.
For those interested - www.victorzammit.com
Very cool site.
Oct 30, 2006 11:34 am Carbonic: The "Angelic Voices" were an EVP (Electronic voice phenomena). This is a common occurence. Related is the "instrumental Transcomminication." The film "White Noise" was rubbish. See worlditc.com for the real deal. Even the catholic church are experimenting in EVP!
For those with a little time to kill, Google any/all of the following (this is not 'hocus pocus' new-age hippy trash. This is scientific study!):
AAEVP
WORLDITC
Konstantin Raudive (one of the first to experience EVP)
Leslie Flint
The Scole Experiment
There's hundreds more.
Oct 30, 2006 03:04 pm I have a photo of me out with the dog, but when you look closer there is a ghost of a blond woman standing right behind me. My daughter thinks its up the attic somewhere so I'll try to find it for tomorrow.
Oct 30, 2006 05:33 pm xtc, yer getting kinda carried away there bud!
If you dont have anything good to add other then stating we are all drugged up or nuts. Then please dont add anything to this conversation.
Oct 30, 2006 06:21 pm As a child, nothing. But I grew up in Alaska which does not have much in the way of History. We have tons of land, very few people and minimal occupied space. The majority of houses were built after the 50's so the chances of growing up in a haunted area in my mind is very low.
Now on the other hand, I did have "experiences" while on vacation in greece, I was staying at a friends house who grew up there. I was lying in bed trying to sleep and had the blankets over my face because it was starting to get light out and I hadn't adjusted to the 12 hour time difference. While laying there I felt something (almost like a cat in weight) slowly move up my chest and then came to rest right on top of my face.
I called out to my wife who was sleeping next to me so she could look and see if anything was there because frankly, I was (sad to say) too scared to look. She woke up and asked me what was wrong, I told her and she had seen nothing. Could have been a dream, could have dissapeared as she woke up, no way to tell but I do remember calling/and hearing myself call her name and then her waking up and responding. If it was a transition from sleep to awake is was very smooth as I couldn't tell. I told some of the guys from the village about this and they were scared to death. They proceeded to tell me about a ghost preacher who haunts the village, the preacher had three cats, I was a little unsettled to tell the truth.
Also, in that same house, on those same grounds (which has 1000's of years of history) we kept hearing a noise one night while hanging out in the living room drinking beer. It sounded like high heels honestly (all the floors were marble or stone tile). It was coming from the room where my buddy was sleeping. Everytime we grabbed the handle to open the door and look the noise stopped. Finally we went in the room and woke our suprised friend. The weird part is, he said he woke up a couple hours before and saw someone standing at the end of the bed, this was not weird to him because about 10 of us were on this trip and we had to share rooms, but; none of us had been in there all night. Inconclusive, yes... scary though, indeed.
So that's it, scary yet fun (sometimes being scared is fun).
Oct 30, 2006 07:02 pm "But if we stopped believing in things just because of science wouldn't that leave out alot of things we already know. Like i said before, there were alot of things 50, 100, 1000 years ago that we just couldn't prove. Coz we didn't have technology for it? Or maybe becoz we all thought it was so impossible we just decided not to explore it.
I guess im just arguing to not close off anything just by the limitations of their definitons and the limits of science at the time."
yeah, that is a better way to put it, the last thing you said there. science doesn't rule out ghosts. not technically. this is the great thing about science. if suddenly there were compelling evidence for god or for ghosts--something that could not be explained by any theory that we now have--the phenomenon would suddenly become part of science's domain. if god suddenly quite obviously 'did something' on earth, science would be forced to alter its notions about god. there would be a new scientific field: divinity science or something. anything that happens, science gets on. the door is always open.
but when we have sets of theories that descibe the way the universe works and which don't require any additional assumptions, science goes with those. firsthand accounts make for great reading--who doesn't enjoy a ghost story? many people, myself included, find it easy to suspend disbelief for a little while. but at the end of the day, i have to admit that there are countless people out there who would deceive themselves or who would give a story for attention (not saying you, db) and that when you get right down to it, there is a theory that explains--in the absence of any testable evidence for ghosts--what might be happening in those cases.
science would say that human brain is the most complicated organ/computer in the known universe. it works so well *because* it has the power to deceive us. our entire sensory reality is in some real sense a hallucination. the color red is not red--it is red to eyes alone: there is no actual thing called 'the quality of redness'--there is only a wavelength of light which is perceived as red by eyes and brains. the brain creates a hallucination for us, and that hallucination is how we perceive the world. so what you have is an organ that works so well because it has the ability to basically create impressions out of thin air.
so the scientific explanation for ghosts--until incontrovertible evidence exists--is that the mind is naturally prone to distortions, is in fact built on distortions, and that there are many motives (including willful self-deceit, because the supernatural explanation is so much more interesting than to think that it's all in the mind) for a person to believe s/he's witnessed something supernatural.
again, if there were evidence that could be tested, this would change. but science has to protect its methodological integrity until that day.
Oct 30, 2006 11:08 pm I am mixed.
I used to think I saw some UFO's and then I started being more aware of our actual level of technology. I started being more aware of what was going on in some of the UFO videos. :)
As far as ghosts and aliens, there are some reasonable explanations that would leave the victim completely oblivious... such as electrically induced hallucination which is now known to be stunningly vivid, repeatable, and common.
However I'm a christian who believes in the power of prayer. So either I've been really lucky a number of times and supprisingly accurate a number of other times or something else is at work.
I also believe in dreams. I just found some logs I wrote from a couple months before Sept 11th, that was some crazy stuff... I do make significant life choices based off my dreams and tend to be better off following them strictly.
Now, I do believe in laying beliefs on the line. 6 months before sept11 the dream was basically:
31 March 2001
I dremapt that I woke up and went to feed my fish but the tank was half empty and that many of my fish had escaped and were swimming around on the floor... after putting the fish back in the tank I noticed a freshwater shark (which I don't own) still free on the floor. A fish in the tank then said to me "This must mean things will be changing for us." I looked back at the shark and it was trying to escape. I ended up chasing it into a sewer system that housed german scientists, some monkies, and some white supremacist 'prisioners' who were actually in league with the scientists but still locked in cages. ...The shark grows from about 6 inches to about 3 feet and one of the white supremacit leaders tells it to leave because it's "evolution violates Gods Will" The Scientists try to shoo it away and the shark reluctantly leaves. It then comes upon a room full of monkies... At this point the scientists decide they need to destroy the evidence of one of their experiments and decide the best way to do it was to flood the sewer... just before the shark enters the room of monkies the room floods and sweeps the shark away and kills the monkies... ...During all of this I am in the sewers looking for the shark...at a point I don't remember I picked up an attractive female sidekick [YES!] we notice the flood coming and run in the opposite direction... the water overwhealmed us [and now the important part] as we are swept along I notice writing on the walls, the writing turns out to be names of soldiers and the war they died in (which I couldn't tell) I assumed the sewers turned into a catacomb. The walls got significantly narrower to the point where I could bairly fit though...but the water was forcing me and my partner though... I saw another goup of people on a catacomb tour and assumed there was an exit near by...at that realization I relaxed and let the water carry me to the surface.
Normally my dreams arn't that long... but they can be hysterical... I once drempt I was in a WW2 infantry unit that captured a train... we found a cow... and spent the rest of the dream discussing what the heck we were going to do with a cow... :)
OK My recient dream was I was in an artillery crew with a huge cannon... I got a bad feeling and looked behind me and noticed somone was setting up an nuclear bomb in an apartment/small office... so I dash over and burst in. A receptionist asked what I'm doing and I yell at her "Where is he?!" she replys, "Theres nobody there." I go into the next room and find the bomb... it;s powered by a Mac G3 so I grab it and thow it out the window [heh] and start tossing other bits and piece of it out the window... then the guy walks in fron another room... then I wake up. :P
Oct 31, 2006 01:36 am richarddawkins.net/articl...s--The-Times-UK
religous people: brace yourselves. and perhaps don't read this at all. i post it only because it conveys what i was trying to say better than i was able to. i'm not interested in starting fights about religion. but dawkins tlalks about the veracity of firsthand accounts here, and i cannot doubt those words.
Oct 31, 2006 04:28 am yeah, you can not doubt his words, but you can doubt mine or somebody else's...just because those words more support your personal feelings. Selective.
Oct 31, 2006 09:12 am It's sort of funny... along the lines of "We don't know what caused everything, but it's erroneously attributed to God." and "If you're going to assign a 'Trancendent Cause' you must explain what caused it..." uhh... it has no cause thats why it's a trancendent cause...
Like we're a boxcar in a train that we can't see the begining of. You say there is no engine because the train is infinite... I say theres an engine because we're moving.
Oct 31, 2006 09:24 pm [quote]xtc, yer getting kinda carried away there bud!
If you dont have anything good to add other then stating we are all drugged up or nuts. Then please dont add anything to this conversation[/quote]
i was joking about the lsd thing.
let me rephrase i think ghost experiences are a result of something out of balance with your body as a result of health issues or mental state.(stress/abuse/thought patterns)
for example. i have been a stay at home dad for going on 8 months. i swear to you i hear my daughter crying when shes sound asleep. in fact a couple of times ive been in the shower and heard crying not just any crying her distinct crying! ive even hopped out to check on her. so dont think your mind couldnt play tricks on you, even visual ones.
Oct 31, 2006 09:30 pm i have ta admit, i've ALWAYS welcomed these sort of experiances....i experamented with different religions/cards/boards in search of 'em, and yet have EVER really experienced ANYTHING supernatural....i got into astral projection, terot cards, wicca, and have tried several types of hypnosis, and ALL have come up empty hopes....hence my atheism. gimme a lightning bold god, and i'll reconsider. until then, i remain a non believer, and that goes for EVERYTHING supernatural.....as for ailens, i ain't never seen one, and it seems they pick the dumbest people on earth (no offence to anyone) to witness them....i do think they exist, but i don't believe they've been here.
Oct 31, 2006 09:51 pm "yeah, you can not doubt his words, but you can doubt mine or somebody else's...just because those words more support your personal feelings. Selective."
that's not true, sb. but there is no way to explain to a person who isn't interest why science is nothing like a religion. so i will not try. it is not my wish to start fights. the stuff about firsthand accounts is what i was referring to, anyway. nothing else. undeniably true that science requires (and should definitely require) evidence, not firsthand accounts.
Nov 01, 2006 04:37 am oh, sure, science should require evidence, that's the nature of science, but personally, I put something I have personally seen or experienced WAY above science. Science can say, do or believe whatever it wants, if something completely against happens to me personally, sorry, science looses.
Nov 01, 2006 06:17 am ahh but you're experiance is but a perseption...and your mind can play tricks on you...take a simple 3D picture, you're experiancing an image that your mind says IS 3D but in science terms, it's still two dementional......to me that negates experiance over something that is tried and repeted.
my 24 bits
Nov 01, 2006 06:23 am Quote:
to me that negates experiance over something that is tried and repeted.
Well, not to be rude but "horray for you"...to me, having had multiple experiences that started when we moved in to a certain house, and stopped when we moved out says more to me than some of you give it credit for.
For those of you that have not had this type of thing happen to you (not sure if you have or not), it's pretty easy to write it off...if you have to a certain level, it's much harder. The pain I had for a day or two after one such experience makes it a little tougher to "negate" tho, feel free if you wish...it doesn't change anything.
Nov 01, 2006 06:53 am Quote:
multiple experiences that started when we moved in to a certain house, and stopped when we moved out
That's pretty much the experience that I've had with these things... even lost a sitter because of it . Acoustic guitars being played inarticulately in the attic, unplugged lamps turning on and off, and people(several accounts) being 'kicked' down the attic stairs .
I want to be skeptical about these things, though . Just on the grounds that I don't like the idea of everyone that went before us doesn't have something better to do, than trip my friends, and play bad music .
The lamp, though... I dun'no .
Nov 01, 2006 07:15 am That's what's weird, the people who don't believe is because they are "skeptical" people or whatever, and by nature, I am very skeptical too, ask anyone who knows me, but given the experiences I have had it has surpassed my skepticism.
Nov 01, 2006 07:52 am you were a child. what was going on in your life? how old were you? have you had any experiences as an adult? im not asking answers to these questions im just pointing out that they would factor into the experiences you had. lets face it things we thought as a child were over exaggerated when you look back on them as an adult.
Nov 01, 2006 07:55 am Ignoring or writing off the words, thoughts, feelings or input of a child is a HUGE mistake. Some of the best, unclouded, unbias, honest things come from them. Anyone who writes of a child is a fool and should never be a parent.
Nov 01, 2006 08:01 am how does that relate to what i said? children yes are brutally honest but at the same time there is a certain level of exaggeration.
Nov 01, 2006 08:09 am That TOTALLY relates to what you said, because I was a child you basically are saying my experience is less relevant and that is simply foolish.
Yes, kids exaggerate, you have to know the kid, but you HAVE to listen to the kid.
Nov 01, 2006 08:30 am no thats not what im saying. being a child was part of the equation. then mental state, homelife. etc..
hey guess what when i was 7 i saw sasquatch. he does exist!
Nov 01, 2006 09:10 am Quote:
hey guess what when i was 7 i saw sasquatch. he does exist!
Mocking peoples experiences doesn't help your point much at all .
"You have a right to kill me, but you have no right to judge me ."- Col. Walter E. Kurtz .
Nov 01, 2006 09:18 am Quote:
Mocking peoples experiences doesn't help your point much at all .
Which is precisely why I am just backing out now.
Nov 01, 2006 10:23 am i wasnt mocking. i was merely providing a point about childhood exaggeration. thats all.
[quote]
Which is precisely why I am just backing out now.[/quote]
which is what you do on most discussions that dont go your way. when your not in the majority with your beliefs. you tuck your tail and head to the corner and sulk.
Nov 01, 2006 10:26 am Hey, pal, you can take that comment and stuff it right straight up your ***...what's the point in wasting time on a discussion that nobody listens to anyone it's not like anyone will change their minds. Tucking my tail and running, no, not hardly. I have better things to do regardless of the direction of the convo, I am hardly running and hardly sulking, personally, your opinion means exactly nothing to me as you have on numerous occasions proven what a complete jackass you are.
I haven't been insulting or pushy, just expressing my point of view like everybody else, you sir, are a dick. People can discuss, disagree and even get heated without being a jerk...you should learn that...
Nov 01, 2006 12:07 pm [quote]
when your not in the majority with your beliefs. you tuck your tail and head to the corner and sulk.[/quote]
That could also be interpreted by civilized people as 'not stirring up the pot'. Sometimes, if you're not going to help a person think, then there's no point in continuing to push a point. It's called tact.
Anyway, there seems to be plenty of occasions of multiple people experiencing the same thing, so the 'mental state', or 'enthusiastic youth' wouldn't come in to play. Unless you think that multiple people can has the exact same hallucination at the exact same time. Very unlikely.
Nov 01, 2006 02:03 pm Quote:
...and stuff it right straight up your ***.
Quote:
...your opinion means exactly nothing to me as you have on numerous occasions proven what a complete jackass you are.
Quote:
...you sir, are a dick. People can discuss, disagree and even get heated without being a jerk...you should learn that.
does anyone else see the humor/irony here?....obviously everyone has their own opinion, and there is NO right or wrong on this kinda stuff, much like religion...but the panty bunching gooin' on here is just silly.
Nov 01, 2006 02:09 pm irony, no, humor, yeah, sort of. We have been a rather interesting, sometimes heating up, conversation, without direct insults, then I get ripped because I choose to stop wasting the time and watch instead...
he is a dick, I stand by my statement. He has often been a jerk and I have said nothing over the months...
**** him.
Quote:
obviously everyone has their own opinion, and there is NO right or wrong on this kinda stuff, much like religion
THAT I agree with
Quote:
but the panty bunching gooin' on here is just silly
Can anyone NOT understand why I took offense to the comment? It's people like him that HRC can do without.
Nov 01, 2006 02:42 pm *mexican voice*
Forgive me, Db.
I know that I, wyd, do not have
your superior intellect and education.
But could it be that, once again...
you are angry at something else...
and are looking
to take it out on me?
*end Three Amigos quote*
i can understand, but i think his was a bit more 'respectfull' and it seems to me, you bit his head off...granted it is your site, and you da man here, but he's been a member for almost two years now, and i'd hate to see YOU of all people alienate a member here.
Nov 01, 2006 02:48 pm hee hee, panty bunching, heh, what an image.
Other stuff aside, I think there IS a right and wrong on this stuff. There IS a correct explaination, even if nobody here knows it. Lots claim to know what it is, but there's many such claims, so it gets cloudy.
I s'pose that's why the danders get up.
The truth has to be the truth, even if we're not privy.
Nov 01, 2006 02:53 pm I do find it interesting that out of all of the political, moral, and religious discussions that have happened here, none have generated quite the amount of heat as this discussion about the existence of ghosts. I must say that I'm very surprised!
Now everybody take a deep breath and enjoy a mini-sized Snickers from your leftover halloween candy dishes. Mmmm, candy.
Nov 01, 2006 03:00 pm heh, little screaming balls of disease took all of my candy...$30 worth, and i thought i'd be nice and hook 'em up with the good ****....i had a few highschoolers take a handfull at a time. not that i minded, i was thinkin' the sooner i run out, the sooner i can turn off my porch lights and get back to playin' bass and smokin' weed.
Nov 01, 2006 03:03 pm No, it wasn't respectful at all, whether it's my site or not I backed out of a conversation that was wasteful and silly and was told I slinked away with my tails between my legs to go sulk about it, like it actually affected me beyond what it is, a forum conversation. It doesn't, but the insult does.
**** him, I don't give two shits if I alienate people like that. I haven't liked him from the first time he opened his mouth at HRC and I never have. Now he takes a shot at me after biting my tongue for ages...**** him. He's always been rude and insulting when disagreed with and very condecending, I would lose no sleep seeing him leave.
Nov 01, 2006 03:04 pm Damn Tad, that is almost exactly what I was writing...
The only irony I can see is the fact that with all the intelligent people on this site that are able to to argue thier point(whatever that may be) with respect for eachother, the subject that breaks it all down is about friggin' ghosts . Actually, that's pretty humorous as well . Bah !
... almost . ; )
Nov 01, 2006 06:15 pm Well I'll just toss another log on the fire here.
The statements made about childrens experiances being written off or whatever as possible exageration. Well, to a point it could be, and I mean could be.
Now in my case the experiances continued into my early teen years in that house. We moved out into suburbia, no more ghostly encounters. Untill later setting accross from the graveyard were a fiends older brother was buried earlier in the month. Someone might want to explain how the sound of his guitar playing, his original music could come from a graveyard. And no, there were no drugs being taken at that point, no alcahol or any intoxicants. And waling slowly toward the graveyard only made the sound louder. Then as suddenly as it started it stopped. This did not happen on just one occasion either. And to boot it only happened when a certain group of us would sit on that hill.
I have as well had experiances in my adult life as well.
So to write of the experiance of a child, just wont cut it here.
I do agree, the discusion is a hard one to swallow for those who have never experianced it. But for those who have, or believe those close to them who have. There is alwasy room for skeptasism, but blatant rudeness is not needed, and you know who you are my friend.
Nov 02, 2006 12:59 am "oh, sure, science should require evidence, that's the nature of science, but personally, I put something I have personally seen or experienced WAY above science. Science can say, do or believe whatever it wants, if something completely against happens to me personally, sorry, science looses."
i would have to agree with that for myself, too. i guess i can imagine being 'converted.' but it's hard to say. i'm a skilled lucid dreamer, and on occasion i've had what felt like out-of-body experiences. but i find it more convincing that since my brain creates my everyday perception of reality (a complex illusion which fools me every day of my life) that the organ clearly has the ability to produce kinesthetic hallucinations as well as all the other kinds. heck, i've even had real audio hallucinations before: all it took was 80 milligrams of prozac and i could clearly hear voices coming from my bedside fan. i would shut the thing off and listen, and they would vanish. turn it back on and they'd come back. when i stopped the drugs, so did the voices. when i resumed them, they were back.
so this is my default explanation, and i find it quite convincing indeed. if, however, i had an experience which 'turned me' well then, i would start to say that my experience has proved something to me, and the science just hasn't spotted the phenomenon yet. mind you, i don't have that attitude now, nor do i expeect to in the future. but i can imagine how it happens to people.
Nov 02, 2006 01:02 am in response to WYD and illusions, and to shore up my argument about how the brain is wired to fool you, i offer this from the dawkins website. we've all had these experiences. these get to the heart of my belief about this stuff.
"On the front windowsill of Richard Dawkins' home in north Oxford, there is a hollow mask of Albert Einstein. It features memorably in his latest book, Unweaving the Rainbow, and he obligingly hands it round to the interviewers who have come to call.
On one side of the mask, the features have been molded outward; on the other, of course, they are sunken in, a depression following the outward molding. Yet even when you view it from the inside, looking into the hollowness, your eye perceives a full face, rounded, substantial, thrusting toward you. It doesnit matter if you know that this perception is false; as Dawkins explains in the book, your brain has been hard-wired by evolution to seek out faces, to render almost any likely pattern of images into a mental picture of human physiognomy. "
Nov 02, 2006 01:05 am "obviously everyone has their own opinion, and there is NO right or wrong on this kinda stuff, much like religion"
--ah, but there IS some real answer out there, isn't there. technically there is an answer to all of this stuff. there is a god or there isn't, in an objective sense. ghosts exist or they do not. there are absolute answers to these questions--somewhere. the problem is that two different groups of people claim the truth.
Nov 02, 2006 04:58 am I agree with forty, there is right and wrong, there are answers, we just don't know 'em.
Nov 02, 2006 09:56 am i concure, y'all be right on that i reckon.
Nov 02, 2006 06:41 pm I have to agree as well. Life is full of little and big mysteries. That is what makes being a human interesting indeed. Why do some see, and some dont? Why do some act one way, and others dont? Why do some hear music, and others hear noise?
If we all agreed completely on everything it would be one hell of a boring place.
And that I think we can all agree on.
Nov 02, 2006 09:30 pm "And that I think we can all agree on."
--That's it. This is war.
Nov 03, 2006 02:48 pm [quote]No, it wasn't respectful at all, whether it's my site or not I backed out of a conversation that was wasteful and silly and was told I slinked away with my tails between my legs to go sulk about it, like it actually affected me beyond what it is, a forum conversation. It doesn't, but the insult does.
him, I don't give two s if I alienate people like that. I haven't liked him from the first time he opened his mouth at HRC and I never have. Now he takes a shot at me after biting my tongue for ages... him. He's always been rude and insulting when disagreed with and very condecending, I would lose no sleep seeing him leave.[/quote]
holy shnikeez. ive been away and just saw this. do i really come off like that. i can assure you im not that type of person, i can be a smarty sometimes but i dont think im condecending type or a troller.
i apologize for the remark i made but it was based purely on previous discussions where you have just quit. i guess i get a little carried away with these type of discussions sometimes. throw in the fact that im not good at forum talk period. 90% of what i say gets taken the wrong way. for example it wasnt my intent to say ignore children because they are full of it.
yes you have ever right to hate me.i did make a very rude comment back when i first started here. i guess i felt like i was being ganged up on in that particular thread but still there was no excuse for it. i apologize for that one too. i will no longer post here. im sorry your opinion of me is sheot and ive caused you slight grief. Believe it or not it does bother me when i upset people(excluding the X wife ofcourse) thats the type of person i am. so if i can ever make it up somehow let me know. this may come as a shock to you but i have great respect for you. always have :D
i want to thank everyone on the forum for all the valuable info i have obtained, this site has been such a great help to me and very enjoyable. Its definately a very classy forum, ive started thread questions before and had 30 ppl reply and by the end i was an expert on the topic. how f-ing kewl is that.
anyhow take care ppl
Peace
Aaron
Nov 04, 2006 01:51 am the thing about discussions like this is that there is really no way to have them without someone getting offended.
(this is why, while i'm totally sympathetic to every one of richard dawkin's arguments against supernatural thinking, including deities, i am not really sure he should be doing it. i just don't know. there's no path there but war.)
Nov 04, 2006 06:41 am well, not necessarily true, but on the whole I'd say it's hard to pull off. A face to face conversation would be easier, people tend to be a bit more bold and think less about what they say when behind a keyboard and monitor...
Nov 04, 2006 10:44 pm yeah true but this topic more than any other inflames peeps' passions.
Nov 05, 2006 07:05 am I dunno, abortion, capital punishment, gun control...there are loads of 'em that can get people all wacky...
That said, I do understand your point.
[voice=Linus Van Pelt]"Three things to never discuss with people; religion, politics and the great pumpkin"[/voice]
Nov 06, 2006 04:43 am ehhh...i think it's fun.....i instagate much of the same conversation at m'bar, and i get a kick out of it...ya just can't go into it expecting to 'convert' people to your way of thinkin'....but is sure is fun playin' devils advocate and pushin' peoples buttons....the trick is to keep what's really important in mind.
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