If you had $1300 for PC recording, what would you suggest?
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Posted on Jan 03, 2006 12:58 pm
launchpad67a
Member Since: Jan 03, 2006
Hello, I have been asked to build a recording PC for a friend. I am very computer savy but need some expert advise on how to approach this.
Here is what I´ve been given to work with and what I would like to have:
*Can Spend Amount = $1200-$1300
*2.8 to 3.+ GHz processor
*2 GB Ram
*200G drive @ 10,000rpm
*Great Soundcard
*Interface for multiple audio inputs from mixing board
*He currently uses Sonar 4
*Great computer speakers
*17"+ monitor
Now, I´ve seen some smokin´ machines out there with 3GHz, 1GB Ram, ect...for around $700. I am hesitant to just buy one of these and then install the extras that I need, which is the reason for this post.
* This friend is very novice at recording but I want to give him something he can grow into. He´s smart enough.
So any help is appreciated. Thanks so much.
Mike
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pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jan 03, 2006 01:12 pm The PC stuff seems decent, but I'd focus on some of the audio areas.
What's your (his) definition of a 'great' sound card. Some have said that, and later regretted their purchase.
What is the interface for multiple audio inputs from mixing board? a preamp? console? like a maudio I/O?
Great computer speakers are not recommended for audio work. They color and flavor the sound, so you're not hearing the real deal. They can be used, but there's lots to be heard wrong, until you learn them. Studio monitors are more the norm.
Is your friend going to be recording 1 or 2 sources at a time? or is a band setting in the future (multiple mics, 2 guitars, etc) maybe up to 8 inputs, or maybe more?
Lots of people here buy the parts and build the machine themselves. Some use AMD (i have) as well as Intel. One person uses Linux even. 2 gig may be overkill, as you could spend 100$ on a better component somewhere else, like a better sound interface, or better mic(s).
Hope that helps.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jan 03, 2006 01:12 pm Oh yeah, welcome to HRC.
Jan 03, 2006 01:18 pm Welcome to HRC.
Yeah, I agree with PJK, "computer speakers" even great ones, aren't the best solution, but can do, some do it.
"great soundcard" is very subjective we do need to know how he records, full band or one instrument at a time...live drums or drum machine?
2GB RAM may seem a bit overkill, but if he plans on using lots of softsynths or software based drums machines and such, it may be a worthy investment.
I would suggest a couple hard drives, one smaller one for apps and OS and one for audio projects.
Buying a prebuilt system is fine and just adding in a decent sound card.
$700 for the system you described with a sound card being extra would be a very nice setup.
Jan 03, 2006 01:24 pm Thanks.
*Great soundcard...well that's why I was looking for suggestions from you guys that know better that I.
*Interface...I guess this would be something that could handle multiple inputs and send those to record multiple tracks at once.
*I know about the computer speakers, obviously nice studio monitors and a clean amp are the way to go, BUT, he's on a budget for the time being and I thonk he could get away with a nice set of comp speakers for now(I know, but what can I do).
*200GB is overkill? Would you suggest 2 seperate drives, 1 for OS and other for storage, or is that not the right way to go?
His outboard/external gear is not something I'm gonna get into here. I just want him to have a great platform to record onto. He can upgrade mics/pres/ect...later as he learns that's where the real sound comes from!
Thanks so much for the reply.
Jan 03, 2006 01:27 pm no, no, I didn't mean to imply 200 is overkill by any means, 200 gb would be great for the audio projects drive (audio takes loads of space, or can anyway), but a smaller one (in the interest of saving money) for the OS and apps.
"multiple inputs" is also relative, 2 inputs is multiple so is 8, but there would be massive differences in the prices of the card that handle 2 input or 8. Which is why we need more specifics. Does he have a mixer or will he need preamps on the sound card, if he has a mixer, what model, how many subouts does he have, that will indicate how many inputs he can use...
The common cards I recommend, and have used are M-Audio and ESI
www.m-audio.com and esi-pro.com
each card has it's own features and config, you need to know what the max number of inputs you will need at any one time, as well as if S/PDIF digital inputs will ever be needed or MIDI...
Jan 03, 2006 01:42 pm Right, I know what you were saying and I understand totally.
I just wrote him and asked some important questions. Hopefully he will write back soon with these answers.
So there are soundcards that have say 4 inputs on them? And 8 also? Wow, I did not know this. How would they fit in the computer?? LOL
Thanks again, this is very helpful!
Jan 03, 2006 01:44 pm Most of the bigger ones have a large cable that looks like an old-scool printer cable from the back of the PC into a rack mounted breakout box that has all the ins and outs in them. or at the very least a big nasty cable that splits into all the I/O (input/output).
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jan 03, 2006 02:03 pm a video card that can support two monitors is also a good idea. the extra real estate is a very good time/sanity saver.
i'd also recommend the two hard drives. no need to have swap file action going on when you're laying tracks.
I've heard newegg is a good direction for buying the pieces-parts, if you're inclined to build it yourself. I've used tigerdirect as well.
I'd say if you can do the building, then he'd be further ahead than if he purchased a pre-built system. Prebuilt systems have all the added software and stuff on them, which wouldn't be wanted with an audio recording PC. Also, there may be a problem with voiding the warranty if you install your own card. I've seen it in the past, but don't know now-a-days.
But certainly, it can be done both ways, and has.
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Jan 03, 2006 05:42 pm I would also say 2 hard drives maybe an 80GB and a 160GB? Might save you some money too. 2GB RAM may be more than necessary, but it's always nice to have. I'm going to upgrade myself up to 1GB here any day now, and I generally do ok with my current 640GB. I will agree with PJK that 2 monitors is super nice to have, though honestly not necessary (I use two though). Go ahead and follow the links db listed to ESI and M-Audio to get a better idea of what the soundcards/interfaces are like. Many just fit into a PCI slot. or some will use a Firewire or USB port.
Jan 03, 2006 05:48 pm launchpad,
Probably wouldn't void the warranty if he was using a firewire interface of some sort rather than a pci card.
I looked at some of the prices of the things you spec'd out from www.pricewatch.com ... the total cost of everything would be roughly $1120 give or take $100. that doesn't include a "great soundcard" and has a crt monitor instead of lcd and stuff.
Find out what he's going to do with it first. Then you could probably go with 1gb of ram and use two 7200rpm discs instead of the mondo 10k disc (very spendy, a 76gb was close to $200 alone). You could purchase a prebuilt system from Dell or somebody like that with the relaxed specs relatively cheaply. I just got a Dell, and they got everything right the first time. However, I HIGHLY recommend wiping out the hard drive before you do anything with it as they load so much extra crap on these things i get pissed off every time I start it up and see all the dumb icons on the taskbar...lol.
Jan 03, 2006 06:06 pm Exactly. The first thing I would do anyhow is install a clean copy of XP Pro after fdisking the drive. Even if I bought a brand new machine.
So could I get away with 2 drives, 1 being mabey 20GB for the OS and all programs, then the other being mabey 160GB for storage? I can't see why I would need even 20GB on the main drive. That's a lot of programs to use up that space.
I'm still waiting for him to answer my questions on the exact use of this machine, so bare with me.
Thanks!
Jan 03, 2006 06:09 pm You'd be surprised, many applications, particularily softsynths and drum machines, come with gigs and gigs of high resolution samples for the user to be able to pick from different drum set sounds or synth pads and such, that system drive can get pretty packed, I outgrew a 20GB and I don't even use that much softsynth...I have a 60 now (maybe 80, I forget) and I am breathing easier...
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jan 03, 2006 09:56 pm Good point, I was thinking of using the audio drive for audio proggies, but it would make sense to only use the large one for tracking.
I'm thinking one could put use to three drives, 1 for OS (20g), 1 for mass storage (200g, for tracks, and audio proggies), and the third for receiving audio tracks while tracking. I'm thinking 10k rpm here. Maybe a smaller drive, 40g or so, and only use it for current tracking, then move the files off after the project tracking is done. Then the next tracking could be done onto a completely clean drive.
just thinking out loud here =)
Jan 04, 2006 09:38 am Ok, I got a few answers from my friend.
1) He only records 1 track at a time.
2) No synths, drum machines or anything like that is ever used.
3) His goal is to make good demo or home studio recordings.
4) He currently has a BEHRINGER Eurorack UB1202 as his mixer (blah, junk!).
5) Says he already has expensive computer speakers, so we'll leave it at that.
Realize this: Total novice, uses terrible microphones (ie:radio shack and the likes), no outboard gear (ie: preamps, effects, ect...)
SO, as you can see he is very novice and either has a lot to learn or a lot of money to save to buy decent gear.
I didn't realize he had such bad stuff....
I think I know what to do for this guy. I'm going with less computer and recommend some decent mics and a good preamp. He just doesn't need all the computer I wanted to get him, what he needs is good outboard gear first!
Jan 04, 2006 09:44 am I would say the M-Audiophile 2496 or the ESI juli@ would be perfect sound cards for that situation.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jan 04, 2006 10:10 am good sense there, launchpad, good signal going in, and it'll sound good when it comes out. And you don't need the high horsepower for a 1 man show.
Mics and preamp is a good place to start, along with the recording card, like dB mentioned above.
Jan 04, 2006 10:12 am having less than great gear will force the user to become better at his craft...the bad mics and crap can help, when he gets good stuff he will be able to make stellar recordings...it's not always the quality of the gear but the quality of the engineer.
like pjk said, being a one input at a time guy, it's easier to pick a card, less horsepower needed one the PC, etc. You are on the right track. And that little UB1202 isn't abad mixer, not big and pro, but not bad, the preamps in that will do the job just fine for now. it's the same pres as my UB1622 and they work for me...though, admittedly I use mics less and less these days...
Jan 04, 2006 10:13 am Actually I'm think in the other direction now.
Stand alone DAW, like the Korg D1600. Used on ebay for around $400. Then a few SM57's and a good condenser mic like an AT 4033 or the likes.
I've owned a D1600 for 4 years and produced 2 cd's for artists that were picked up by small record labels and released without changing a thing. They sound great, but I also own a bunch of killer outboard gear and have quite a bit of experience with recording. So I think I will recommend this route for him. He can get the recorder plus some decent mics and a preamp, all for the same price.
What do you think?
Jan 04, 2006 10:15 am I am personally not a big fane of standalone DAW's, especially for somebody growing. PC based offers more flexability for growth. If it works for you, that's awesome, I just know I couldn't do it, I like the dual monitors and more user-friendly displays than most DAW's have...the ease of use and ease of expandability.
but thats just me...I am also not a fan of eBay at all...
Jan 04, 2006 11:01 am I understand. I am just going by his experience level which is nearly 0, and thinking he can actually make some decent recordings and pick up some good gear for the price of the computer he wants. If you priced out all that he really needs to get started it would be way more than he can afford right now...After all, the computer is just the recording medium, it really depends on what you send into it.
As for me, I love plug-ins but it's the source sound that I always focus on.
I proposed this idea to him, he might not like it and decide to go with the comp system. We'll see, but I do understand your point.
Thanks again, I'll be back!
Jan 04, 2006 11:05 am Quote:
the computer he wants
To me, thats the key, if he wants a computer...well, it's his money :-)
Also, realize there is a difference between what is NEEDED, WANTED or RECOMMENDED. he has mics (though not the best) he has a mixer (though not the biggest) with preamps...etc...he just NEEDS the computer and decent sound card...hell, being a one track at a time guy, he doesn't even NEED the better sound device...
know what I mean?
Jan 04, 2006 01:26 pm I'd still vote for getting a computer. You're so much more versatile with a PC than with a standalone DAW, not to mention he'll need a computer at some point which would make having a DAW a bit redundant at that point except for portability reasons....
Get a reasonable computer for the $700, and get a good soundcard that won't be the bottleneck in the future. There's TONS of free stuff out there for PC too, which you won't find for a DAW. (Not that I'm aware of anyways).
Jan 04, 2006 04:41 pm I totally agree guys, I really do. I proposed the DAW idea to him and he really feels comportable with that route...Like I said, this guy really has no idea what he's doing and giving him a computer and asking him to sort through all that seems like a bad idea at this point. He is 17 yrs old and doesn't know anything about music, recording or computers yet. He barely plays the guitar well enough to claim that he plays!
With the stand alone he will easily be able to read a manual to get started, plug something into the back of it and record. Then add effects, ect... without struggling. Even burn a cd when it all said and done. I think it's the perfect way for him to get started in recording.
I appreciate all the info and the time you guys have taken to help me. I'll keep you posted on his decision.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jan 04, 2006 05:00 pm good points, good luck.
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Jan 04, 2006 05:45 pm the PC would need 2 physical hard drives one for OS and one for Data...
