mixdown volumes
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Posted on Feb 18, 2005 03:25 am
Kaos62
Kaos is only a form of insanity
Member Since: Feb 03, 2005
After all the advise given previously I am getting near to the sound I want for my band but I now have a problem with mixing down to 2 tracks.
The individual sounds are reasonably good with levels not passing -3db, however when I mix down to two tracks the meter goes off the scale. Now I realise that when mixed the overal levels are increased but do I just simply reduce the volume of each track by a lot (i mean a lot) or what.. The main problem is the vocals and guitar which are distorting and saturating the music.
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olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Feb 18, 2005 03:51 am You have a couple of choices.
Once you have your mix sounding the way you like, move each fader down an equal amount ie: if 1 is reading -3dB and another -6 dB etc, and your clipping then reduce both by, for example 2dB so you'd have -5dB & -8dB now. Your mixes balance will still be the same just not as loud and hopefully not clipping. Do that for each track and repeat until your stereo mix isn't hitting the red.
The 2nd option is to simply lower the master fader till your not clipping. I do both usually I get it close by lowering all the individual tracks, then pull it down the rest of the way with the master fader.
Dan
Feb 18, 2005 10:08 am Don't rely on 'O/L' lights or clipping lights to tell you what the individual tracks volume is (they are nowhere near accurate). Use it only as a 'damn that's way too loud' indicator. Solo each track (with aux/inserts/effects for that track included) to find out what's clipping, then drop that one (until it stops clipping) to find out how far you need to drop them all, and do what the dog suggests by dropping each channel by that amount to maintain the overall mix. (NOTE ADDED AFTER: Drop each track a little extra, a few ticks or dB, to give yourself headroom)
If you've got something on a master insert, master aux, or something interupting the main bus, or even something on the outputs (like a compressor), it may also be the cause, check it's/their output levels.
One thing with mixing a live band is you MUST leave some headroom on the individual tracks (not as important on the main mix, although a little helps). Especially with vocalists, their volume tends to fluctuate. One minute they're quiet, the next their loud. If you don't leave headroom, you'll get clipping whenever they decide to go a bit louder... Use a combination between pre and post volumes to get the headroom you require.
W.
Kaos62Kaos is only a form of insanityMember
Since: Feb 03, 2005
Feb 21, 2005 05:14 pm OK that seems to work ok, but now i am faced with the age old problem of the mix not being loud enough when on to CD. This is only for a demo but hey I still want it reasonably loud as we are a punk band..............
Can I pull the final general mix up to higher db than -3 say 0 would be great +12 would be better LOL
olddogMember
Since: Jul 02, 2003
Feb 21, 2005 05:41 pm If you don't have a mastering app such as Ozone, Waves etc, then you can use the hard limiter in your software to get the loudness.
Set the limiter for something like -.3 and experiment with the gain setting. Depending on how loud your mix already is setting the gain to +1 or +2 should get you close. You don't want to completley squash your mix, so be careful how much gain you use.
I wouldn't set the ceiling higher than -.3 though, that will be plenty loud.
Dan
Kaos62Kaos is only a form of insanityMember
Since: Feb 03, 2005
Feb 22, 2005 03:58 pm OK i have tried everything i can imagine. Nothing seems to work well. If i push too hard it gets saturated.
Now I know the saying rubbish in rubbish out but maybe it's me who has done something wrong in the early stages.
before my next follow on question let me explain my set up. Roland VS1680 multitracker to computer to software (cool edit 2 or soundforge) routed out to monitors.
When I play direct from the VS1680 everything is much louder. I have to reduce the output from the VS1680 to achieve -3db from the software, but it is ridiculously quiet. No matter what I do I cannot get the sound back to the levels I can from the VS1680. IS THIS NORMAL OR AM I JUST THICK!!!!! perhaps i have missed something fundamental in my thinking. (yes i am very inexperienced)
SO IF THERE IS A GOD SEND HIM TO ME AND LET ME GET THIS DEMO DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am seriously annoyed with this I want to run before I can walk, have my cake and eat it
Feb 22, 2005 04:01 pm After importing in to software wave you done any compression or maximizing on it?
At the end of the day, your master should peak out at -.3 not -3
Kaos62Kaos is only a form of insanityMember
Since: Feb 03, 2005
Feb 22, 2005 04:08 pm AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Have done eq compression normalising hard limiting every thing but nothing seems to give me that punch and roundness of volume. the -0.3 and not -3 my stupid mistake misread earlier advise and took it to be -3 silly silly boy.
Now I took the master to 0db but still not right.
Is their anything after getting the mix down right good individual sounds with place for every thing so that I can increase that volume level on play back. I know I won't get to commercial CD volumes but I would like to be getting within shooting distance of them.
Feb 22, 2005 04:12 pm Well, you CAN get to commercial volumes...
What I do is maximie using Waves L2 Maximizer plugin(or maybe it's called L1, I forget) that is kind of limiting but adds a lot more punch to the sound, two other things I use almost every time are Steinberg Magento (or PSP Vintage Warmer) and of course, Har-Bal to harmonically balance the sound. I typically get my sound as close to commercial volume as I want to, but, commercial releases tend to compress so hard it crushes the sound, I don't usually WANT that type of production.
Kaos62Kaos is only a form of insanityMember
Since: Feb 03, 2005
Feb 22, 2005 04:25 pm Ok I will certainly look at the waves and the steinberg and Har-Bal (buying thro the site here of course) obviously funds are the question and i will have to buy one buy one. Which do you recommend first.
Thanks for the advice
Kaos62Kaos is only a form of insanityMember
Since: Feb 03, 2005
Feb 23, 2005 03:36 pm Just one other thing in general terms.
'CLIPPING' isthis allowed at all or not at all. The reasonbeing i can incrase the bulk of the sound to say -0.3db but certain freq's are clipped. Now the sound is generally ok and more punchy (but still not what I want - ill have to buy more goodies I kno) so CAN I HAVE SOME CLIPPING PLEASE
Feb 23, 2005 03:37 pm If you want clipping you can certainly have it, however, I do recommend it, it's nasty and generally undesirable. If you can see the frequencies that are clipping, EQ them out.
Kaos62Kaos is only a form of insanityMember
Since: Feb 03, 2005
Feb 23, 2005 03:53 pm ok thanks 4 that. I'll give it another try. If I ever get someting reasonable with the recording can I post it in one of the forums so I can get advise on areas that need attention
Feb 23, 2005 03:55 pm sure, just put it in the music & composition forum...well, you can post a link to it, the only way to upload songs to HRC is by joining HRC Pro.
Kaos62Kaos is only a form of insanityMember
Since: Feb 03, 2005
Feb 23, 2005 04:03 pm AH I don't have a web site so can't do the link and as for PRO well I certainly am not one of those (yet until I have had your advice for the next 15 years)
Kaos62Kaos is only a form of insanityMember
Since: Feb 03, 2005
Feb 23, 2005 04:21 pm Now I understand what the PRO is hat a damn fine idea.
Rest assured you wil have another member tommorow to the pro list. 24 dollars iq certainly not expensive infact it's ridiculously cheap............
You do realise that his ill mean my girlfriend will have to bring me more coffee into my office - studio - dining room - music room (all in one can't afford separate ones.
Thanks for all your advice and patience
Feb 23, 2005 04:23 pm no problem, and if you like, I can raise the price :-)
Oh, and for your wife doing the running, have kids, they are generally very happy to go to the refrigerator for me and come back :)
Kaos62Kaos is only a form of insanityMember
Since: Feb 03, 2005
Feb 23, 2005 04:25 pm lucky sod I jst get verbal cheers for now
