Sonar vs. Cubase + Wavelab etc.
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Posted on Nov 09, 2002 11:03 am
PorpoiseMuffins
a.k.a. Porp & Mr. Muffins
Member Since: Oct 09, 2002
I already own Sonar and I've been looking into mastering program options and have downloaded fully functional Wavelab and T-Racks demos to see how things compare. I brought up one of my mixes and fooled around with the settings in both programs for quite a while. I may just be a total fool, but I wasn't impressed with either program. Wavelab looks really, really nice and all, and has some cool audio monitoring stuff, but as for the effects, they fall short of my expectations. I would never pay $400 or whatever for such a minor difference in sound. I like the setup--- but why do I need another whole program just to patch some VST and DirectX effects when I can just do that in Sonar after mixdown? The effects themselves are fairly nice, but some are really plain or just kind of useless. And where is the volume maximizer??? As for T-Racks, I didn't notice any difference in sound quality aside from the stereo expander and the ability to make the mix a little louder. The Eq was pretty hard to work with and the compressor was just weird. Then I decided to check out the compitition as far as recording programs go and downloaded the Cubase SX demo. I love the look and it's all very spiffy and slicked up, with a lot of options, but the track view was hard to work with and it took me quite a while to even figure out how to patch an effect. I love the mixer, except that I would much rather have the EQ in plug-in form. I really like the master effects panel, which effectively turns Cubase into WaveLab. In fact, the effects seemed better than the ones in WaveLab too. So as you might expect, I was starting to question whether or not buying a mastering program was necessary in the slightest. So now I'm thinking about just buying some nice plug-ins such as the BBE Sonic Maximizer, some sort of volume maximizer, and a stereo expander or something. Then I would just patch them in Sonar like you would in Cubase or Wavelab along with some Sonar compression and tape simulation. Anyway, I'd really like to hear some other people's opinions on this issue and what they think of the tools out there in both the recording and mastering world.
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Nov 09, 2002 01:30 pm Yes, you can do a lot of editing inside multitracking apps. I would guess your accessment of WaveLab has come with pretty light use and basic functions. I have never used T-Racks so I cannot comment on that, but WaveLab I have been using for several years now since version 1.5 and I can easily say without a doubt it is superior to anything else I have used. The editing capabilities are phenominal. You can take a pencil (er, the pencil tool) and re-write a sine wave to remove abnormalities. The effect application is far lighter on the system than trying to do it in a multitracking app along with everything else.
Editing can be down to a millesecond of audio data. Last time I check Sonar it could not zoom in nearly as far as either WaveLab of Sound Forge, but then, that is not it's purpose.
WaveLab also support streaming media encoding (for some formats) CD audio extraction, red-book campatible CD burning, VST and DirectX plugins (I thought Sonar could only use DirectX unless you buy a convertion program).
WaveLab may not be necessary for everyone. But for me personally I couldnot live without it.
Nov 09, 2002 02:12 pm Thanks for the reply. Yes, it's true I haven't had a lot of time to look at the program closely, but personally I don't think that i will be needing editing capabilities that are that exact. I'm not sure how far WaveLab can zoom, but Sonar can get up far enough to see the steps in the digital waveform, so that's pretty darn close I'd say :-) If I did use Sonar for mastering, I would have the project exported to a single wav and opened in a new project on one track so the effects wouldn't be too overbearing. Plus, my computer is really fast anyway. What exacly is streaming media encoding? I like the CD burning option, but I could just use any CD burning app, right? Yes, Sonar only supports DirectX, but you can just download a free wrapper and VST works fine. I don't mean to bash WaveLab or anything! I'm just speaking from my limited use.
Nov 09, 2002 08:04 pm Mastering and burning is just one side of what WaveLab can do. I too admit when I first launched it, not only was it a little confusing to a beginner, but it didn't seem to do anything I needed. Now I couldn't live without it. Two years later I'm still discovering things this program can do.
Streaming media is compressed audio formats like mp3 and wma for use on web servers. Useful if you build websites I'm sure.
Myself, I'm a sample freak. I use WaveLab to carefully edit sounds like drum hits and synth stabs with surgical prescision before they ever reach my sequencer. Its true tat not all the plugins that come with WaveLab are useful to everyone, that's where peripheral plugins com ein. Armed with a zillion free VST and DX effects from the net, there's not much I can't do with WaveLab.
I like to compare WaveLab with Adobe's Photoshop. What PhotoShop is to images, WaveLab is to audio. This prog is deep. Very deep. Give it another look, I'm sure you won't be dissapointed :O) -j
Nov 09, 2002 09:17 pm WaveLab is one of those apps (I like the PhotoShop comparison) that is so large-scaled and such a deep app that any typical 30-day trial does not even come close to giving enough time to see everything it can do unless using it is your full-time job.
Like I said before, Ihave been using it since version 1.5 and every now and then I still get one of those "holy crap, it can do that" moments...
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 10, 2002 05:55 pm Yes, you can edit zoom and edit in Sonar just as intricately as in WaveLab. And I know several people who do use it as their only program, and it seem's to be fine for them. Sonar now has one of the largest selection'f of exporting feature's availabe in an application of it's type. And I still use an external CD burning program even though I have access to most of the major mastering and recording program's. And also, the use of VST FX in Sonar is very do-able now thanx to the addapter program's out there.
Nov 11, 2002 11:22 pm I use Sonar (my favorite seq) in tandum with SoundForge 6 Studio. Just click on a clip, run Sforge6 from WITHIN sonar from the 'tools' menu, work on the wav, then sonar will automatically reload the clip back into itself - cool eh!
Art
GMember
Since: Nov 12, 2002
Nov 12, 2002 01:38 pm I would have to agree with both sides to some extent. I have wavelab and wouldn't want to part with it, but I think the plugins should be your first investment. A good set of Waves plugins would allow you to do decent masters with the software you have, but I'm sure at some point down the road you would want to get wavelab.
Nov 16, 2002 06:43 pm Thanks for all the feedback, guys. After trying out a bunch of different things, it looks like I'm going to go for the Sonic Foundry CD Architect. I love the demo! It's much more of the kind of thing that I'm looking for. The CD burning possibilities are endless, and it supports plug-in use on the whole project or each track seperately, plus it comes with some okay effects of its own. It's really cool. By the way-- I finally bought a Behringer "Composer" compressor and I love it! It's the best thing for my studio that I could by with $100! Now I just need the BBE Sonic Maximizer plug-in...
Nov 19, 2002 03:59 am Hello guys!
Have any of you ever seen Cool Edit Pro 2.0?
I don't think, because this is far the best program for audio mastering and editing.
Take a look of this...
Byyyye.
