Sub-mix, FOH-mix, Monitor-mix, Recording-mix, mix, mix, mix
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Posted on Aug 25, 2004 03:09 am
Hue
Pinnipedal Czar (: 3=
Member Since: Apr 11, 2004
The term "bottle-necked" comes to mind...
1x 12-string acoustic
2x 6-string acoustics
2x 6-string electrics
1x 4-string bass
1x 8-string mandolin
2x mics for various percussion
3x vocal mics
Keys
Drum Machine
Sampler
Three singing guitarists, and two percussion/keys/sampler guys ...
What I propose to do, is to use an 8-channel snake to get this to four different places . Two of which are monitor mixes, for the vox and one for instruments, one is the front of house speakers, and the fourth is a recorded, sterio mix . (whew)
I plan on making a submix for the keys, sampler, drum machine, two percussion mics, and the bass... and plugging them into 2 of the snake channels for a L/R mix, then using the other six channles for 3 vocal mics, and 3 guitar submix's . These 8 lines would then go into a UB2442, and used to route the monitor mix's and the front of house mix . Also, the 8 direct outs of the UB will be fed to another mixer (TDM-1000) for a recording-mix .
I've had mixed results with this method,(no pun intended), so maybe somebody could help point out some of the weaker points of this .
Also, I only have one compressor, and one BBEMax462... where would those suit me best in the line(s) ? Should I seek another compressor... maybe a 4 channel model ? Should I seek help ? :)
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WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Aug 25, 2004 10:51 pm Ya, seek help. Not for your proposed plan, but for your sanity post implementation! You aught to be bussier than a one armed wallpaper hanger. As far as compression....WoW...what a concept! For clip protection the inserts of the front of house mixer would be best. Once into the mixer stream you should be ok fine. As far as blend, as you are mixing "on the fly" ...... eeee gad.. so much depends on the musicians. What is their dynamic range? What is there dynamic control? Have they worked with compressed signals or are they going to fight with the diminished output at spike levels? I guess I would either use the maximizer just prior to amplification to the house speakers for the crowd, or if you want to try to pre-master "real time" I guess you could put it at the feed to tape point.
Good luck anyway! Be interesting to hear what you learned from the experience.
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Aug 29, 2004 08:21 pm Thanks for the reply Walt . We will have some help on the mixing bit, while the performance goes on, but I still have to set things up... which makes-up my love/hate relationship of playing in a band, and also why we don't do it often enough for me to lose my sanity, I have taken the precaution this time of being able to set-up the night before, taking into consideration the changes a room full of peeps will do to the sound .
I will have two extra channels on the main mix board, do you think I should use these for some condenser mics to pick-up the room, and audience ? Maybe some of the aux returns on the recording mixer would be better for this ?
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Aug 30, 2004 08:33 pm I hear the love / hate relationship. I feel this way with the swing band often when trying to record. They are definately interesting to work with. I am becoming more understanding of their paradyme and mine as time goes on, but it is easy to become frustrated. As per the extra mics, why not? See what you can capture. Costs nothing. Could realy make a vibrant live album if things go well.
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Aug 30, 2004 11:13 pm IF... what a great word ! lol It's only two letters long, and can completely hinge two VERY different realities without any effort at all . heh heh Nobody ever sets out to try to record the worst gig that they had the pleasure of being part of . 'Gig's gone-awry' do happen though, which is why I really want this one to go well... we played the same event three years ago, and were plagued with technical difficulties, but 'pulled things through'... as-apposed to 'had a good time, and made a good recording' . I'm feeling somewhat confident this time though, as I have somewhat better gear, and a much better mind-set to run with . Plus, there's the fact that I have since realized that I would be doing this all reguardless of the results . :) BUT the odds are against us, as we have two newbies on the crew this year ! heh heh
Sooo...
On that room-mic tip : Do you think it would be a good idea to run those mics to one side of the recording, and pan the stage mix to the other ? To keep them sepparate... just in case . heh heh Maybe that's too much for mono though ?
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Aug 31, 2004 09:45 am Oooops, sorry Hue, totaly forgot your mix crieteria for this gig. I just popped in and read your last post late last night. Forgot you are totaly mixing on the fly. Two thoughts come to mind. If you get audiance through the stage mics you may end up with the perception to the listener that the audiance was just not into the gig. If this is the case I would consider using audiance mics and try to ride them real close. If you do not get audiance through the stage mics it is a real judgement call. Personally I would not seperate the audiance from the group per stereo seperation. That could make a real mess. One thing about audiance mics, and you are most likely on top of this, but just in case; watch (actually listen) the reflected sound from the band. Can make mud pies real quick!
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Aug 31, 2004 08:13 pm No ooop's Walt, I think that the other points of the recording process are so interresting, and rellevant to how things turn out, even if the recording is bad, it's like documentaion of what IS there... the whole process of going through the motions, and finding out what works best for what situation, and making the best of what'tcha got . It's mint to find-out how people always seem to get more out of it than JUST an audio recording product . Be that the pride of someone who just caught their first band's, first gig, through a boom-box someone brought to the party; or the brave tales of trial, and error one get's around here . It's a ride ! Having said that, we all want the best recordings we can get for our money an effort, which makes me re-think the whole audiance mic'ing thing... I don't think I will, as those reflections will surely be something I don't want on the recording, or anything I want to deal with in the cleaning-up process . Good point Walt, thanks !
