I want a job, not an internship!
Home > Home Recording Forum > Talkin' Smack > I want a job, not an internship!
Posted on Jul 05, 2004 10:34 pm
FunkDadyP
No Commercial Appeal.
Member Since: Jan 09, 2003
I just moved to Chicago from Kansas City and want to get any sort of job (even 10 hours a week) at a recording studio. Everyone keeps telling me that unless I have a degree in recording I can't get a job, but I can intern. Man, I just don't have time for an internship, plus a job, plus personal music.
What have you guys witnessed as far as this goes? Is the only way to get in the business with a degree or internship?
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HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Jul 05, 2004 11:15 pm Intern for yourself ! @#%^ the system ! Study by any and all means possible with every moment of spare time... while you work, while you eat, while you, er... breath ! Use credible, objective sources like HRC, and the right books . Apply all applicable knowledge to your music, and you have effectively reduced three tasks down to two . If the stuff you make sells, (and you still like to play it), then you have reduced the three to one, and that my friend, is the elusive holy grail of the "small-lable-from-a-band-thing" . Ah...
I guess I should've asked why you feel the 'need' to intern ?
There's alot more than what I could ever mention from my small perspective, but that scenario bares a strange resemblance to the reason some of us come here ... not enough time, or money, but we luvs music . btw, Chicago rocks .
Jul 06, 2004 01:12 am hail chicago!
Jul 06, 2004 06:53 am Well, let me ask you this...have you actually talked to any studio or are you not bothering because everybody keeps telling you you can't? Go bang on some doors...
I know very few in the bsuiness personally that has any formal education in the field.
If they do require it, bottom line is you are not in the position to tell a studio what you want, they are in that position...if you don't have time to intern you have two choices:
1- make the time, nothing good comes from anything without effort.
2- start hiring our yourself to bads and undercut the prices of the studio that won't take you.
FunkDadyPNo Commercial Appeal.Member
Since: Jan 09, 2003
Jul 06, 2004 07:05 am Well dB, I have bothered, but the nearly 10 studios I've called all seem to think I'm insane for trying to get in the door without any "professional" experience. I've called around and I've heard this a few times:
"What school did you go too?"
It tell them northwest missouri state, major in broadcasting. then they say:
"Ok, this is a PROFESSIONAL studio that uses PROFESSIONAL gear." Their tone reminds me of the popular kids in high school telling you why you can't hang out with them. Then they tell me that I can get on their intern list, which apparantly is six miles long.
I guess I knew I would have to start recording my own stuff more heavily in order to get started. Maybe I figured since chicago is such a huge city there would be at least one studio that needs help from a young, motivated start-up. Oh well, who needs 'em.
Jul 06, 2004 07:16 am OK, good, I am glad to hear you have tried, and if it's like it sounds, the people that are telling you this are credible...sadly...
Fortunately you don't need them...while it would be a great learning experience, I would suggest you do what many here have, and that is to get your own kickin.
Jul 06, 2004 07:20 am Don't lose your hope. I have no education, but somehow managed to get a job in a studio without that. It was very hard work in the beginning though, since I could not expect to get paid for all the time I spent learning.
Good Luck
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jul 06, 2004 09:28 am It is that day in age. Most folks now moving in to controling positions have degrees and that is their orientation. Quality systems are also most often misunderstood to mandate college degree. There are a lot of missed opurtinities on the part of companies in general per their near sighted, narrow vision. It's a pitty, but it is the way the "game" has evolved. I could get off on a real rant here. Even the term "professional" has been basterdized to fit the voge meaning of the time. Has little or nothing to do with college. Often times the instance of hiring young educated folks only diminishes the overall quality of an organization. Nuff said.
Did you walk in with a portfolio? This can sometimes help. Hard to agrue with imperical data. Good work is good work!
Jul 06, 2004 09:43 am While I hold no degrees or anything beyond a simple A+ certification as a PC technician, I do understand, partly, why things have went this direction. If somebody has a degree or diploma in some specific area, you can be a bit safer in assuming they have a good round knowledge of that topic. Of course, not always the case, but more often than just hiring somebody off the street. People like us, that have learned on their own often have large gaps in their knowledge that would need to spend time filling. Hence, the internships. While I have churned out several good albums for people in a few different genres of music, I would bet you put me, or almost anyone here, in a serious, professional studio, it would be pretty quick to see where those gaps lie, I am sure I have a ton of them.
With my chosen "career", that being web development, I got lucky, it was new enough that degrees did not exist when I first got into it. I found I did have large gaps in my knowledge...but the .com market was so ripe and people wanted developers so badly that they were willing to allow me the time to study and improve. Not so for the music industry, it's a long standing industry, controlled by corporate elite, and many time even the lower ends of the scale suffer from serious elitist tendensies....the best way to combate this is to go indie, and do it with quality.
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Jul 06, 2004 12:26 pm ...being that I'm unemployed I have perfect perspective on this subject....
People hire their own kind.
If they have a college degree then they see the value of a college degree. Some senators value their Eagle Scout more than their college degree but someone without it isn't going to value it at all.
Back in the day, I've heard of tech companies viewing college degrees as a liability... mainly because most of the owners were college dropouts and wanted people like themselves.
essentially one major company would hire highsckool grads with basic knowledge outright and put them on a basic integration line. The same company would take college grads, run them through a basic integration course and then put them on the basic integration line.
guitwizzNothing doesnt give me gasMember
Since: May 25, 2004
Jul 06, 2004 01:00 pm My producer abilities look like a fragmented hard drive.
My main computer geek who does my machines, repairs and new ones, has no degree at all. Hes around 27 or so, and has had a mouse in his hand since he was 2. He has "outgeeked" 4 other guys at different points in time, in front of me that have ITT tech degrees,....... Sometimes the self learned can schmoke the elite.
Also, their is someone at my work that has a degree from MI (musicians Institute, L.A.), and another that does not...... same scenario.
*ScHmOkE* ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ffffftt..
Thats not always the case, of course. It happens more than you might think though.
Jul 06, 2004 01:08 pm Yes, it's always a risk, and you could always miss out on that diamond in the rough, but I do think the law of averages puts the advantage in those that go for degrees...of course, then they have to be willing to pay for it too...all those degrees also come with an added salary requirement much of the time...
el musicoFreeleance Producer/Engineer/GtrMember
Since: Aug 11, 2002
Jul 06, 2004 01:26 pm Hey, i agree with dB. I have spent the last four years recording with my DAW and building up a project studio. I spent a lot of time learning on my own and found this site to be a huge help. However, even with all that experience i didn't expect to be able to get a job at a pro studio. I decided to go to school and i've seen the gaps in my knowledge of recording and know they are being filled.
one thing to remember is that this industry was built on people being 'grandfathered' into the field. Even when i graduate school here i will have to fulfill an internship requirement. Not to mention, that someone without a degree/experience looking for a job will lose out to someone with a degree/experience.
I don't know your experience level but maybe this will help get your foot in the door. Keep in mind what kind of gear the studio has... i had no idea how to operate a Neve console to track to an Otari MTR90 tape machine and i wouldn't expect to be paid while learning how to do it. So if they use analog tape then find out what model of tape machine and mixer they have and study up. If they run Pro Tools, learn Pro Tools. Just learn all you can about their setup. Also, find out their rates and if they have a different fee if you bring in your own engineer. Then once you have a working knowledge of the gear and how the studio operates bring a band in to record there, with you being the engineer. Studios can't argue with you if you are bringing in money especially if the work you do is good.
Jul 06, 2004 02:08 pm LetMeBeat, can you elaborate on your story a bit? how did you get your foot in the door?
yeah, so, i know nothing about how to get jobs in a studio. though i would love to, its just something i don't believe is possible for someone like me without a lot more motivation than i have. but for you, funkdady, you seem to have that.
seems to me, though, that cold calling someone is not effective. they can't see you or your body language, your dedication, the way you present yourself. you're some dude calling about a job, with no experience. you could literally be anyone. some homeless dude. i'd call and set up an informational meeting, where you go in and ask these people what they look for in someone they hire. what would it take, if you weren't formally educated in recording. as you call to set up the brief meeting, stress that it's just an informational meeting and that you're not there for a job. you just want to talk for a few minutes. make friends with the guy. show him you're serious. you'll at least learn how they think, and if there's any chinks in his armor. then go out and, if its realistic, do all the things that the guy told you to do. then show up again a few months later with the evidence and say 'hire me.' he'll be impressed with the initiative.
also, maybe start doing the recording yourself and get really good at socializing and networking. it will take some time--give it a year at least--but you should start making contacts, other people that do this sort of thing. if you come across as knowing what you are talking about, and you keep your ear to the street, and people know you, then you havce a better chance of getting recommended to someone by someone.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jul 07, 2004 12:27 am There are a lot of paradymes to be fought. I can see where a studio would have a lot concern about hiring "sight unseen". I know I have asked a number of folks to help out on recording gigs. They all have a rap that may be real to them about all the recording they have done and etc. I have yet to find one who has any real application skills. I usually don't ask them back. That is not to indite you. I know better, however HRC is not yet acredited in any way, obviously. There are a lot of folks in bands, however, it's a fairly rare individual that can walk into a studio and play their instrument as a studio musician. I can only say keep banging. Look up the studios ahead of time and elaberate in your resume' about the time in you have on the equipment they use. Send a demo of your work in the resume. I know for sure that I would have great difficulty with a studio and a studio with me. I can blow away most of the studio work done in this area, but that is with attention to detail, control over the whole job, and pretty much unlimited time. I have no intrest in "production" music. I would be frustrated in a heart beat with "get em in and get em out". Good enough...next drummer please!
guitwizzNothing doesnt give me gasMember
Since: May 25, 2004
Jul 07, 2004 12:48 am Drummer, whats that?? Is that software, or freeware? Hardware? "No"where??/ heheh
FunkDadyPNo Commercial Appeal.Member
Since: Jan 09, 2003
Jul 07, 2004 01:49 am fortymile, great idea. I'll give it a try. As I said above, I have a degree in broadcasting from a state school. I actually went into school wanting to do television or film production, so most of my experience is in television production up until the last two years or so. There is a lot of crossover between the two media, but some studio managers don't see that connection when presented on a resume. fortymile, I think if I had a face-to-face meeting with a manager I would be able to explain myself better and maybe ask him where my "gaps in knowledge" would be.
I guess this brings up a different topic, I'll post a different topic in a second, but first: how long do you think an adequate demo should be to send to a studio manager? two songs? five? or just enough to show your stuff doesn't suck?
thanks for the responses guys, you really got me motivated again.
