kurt cobain - 10 years gone today
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Posted on Apr 05, 2004 07:50 pm
flame
...bringing sexy back
Member Since: Jul 01, 2002
the music he never made will be greatly missed.
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Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 05, 2004 10:34 pm Tuna just asked me today about that. As in what do I think Kurt would have been doing musically today if he were still alive.
Sadly, I didnt have an answer. So we just listened to the black disc and pondered what might have been.
Hope the angels like him as much as we all did.
Peace
Apr 06, 2004 04:33 am within this 10 years span, had he not shot himself, he would have died from on O.D. Sadly, I like Kurt, I still listen to his music, but he was a messed up dude...after all, look who he married...
GregorMember
Since: Jan 08, 2004
Apr 06, 2004 09:24 am I'm not a fan of anybody who kills themselves and leaves a child.....and like db said look who he married and left the child with!!
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Apr 06, 2004 10:07 am courtney love is quite attractive : discuss
Apr 06, 2004 10:15 am Yeah, in that "trailer trash ho you can probably get lucky with" sort of way, sure.
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Apr 06, 2004 11:34 am my kinda girl...
Apr 06, 2004 12:15 pm i think courtney is ugly. however, the song 'mono' off her new album is quite good. every album of hers has at least one standout track.
as for kurt, it's still sad. i don't like seeing an idol formed out of him--true, he was all paradoxical and stuff, but it still goes against his essense and has always bothered me. at least if he were alive he could keep protesting it.
Apr 06, 2004 12:18 pm The way I understand it is that his protesting fame was a total sham. I dunno if it's true, but I have read that on several occassions in interviews with peeps that knew him.
Apr 06, 2004 02:19 pm i believe he was probably paradoxical. that is, he was likely against the extreme attention and yet probably couldn't resist it. it seems quite easy to identify with the ethics of a movement--low key underground values for example--and even be inspired by them and take them into you and believe in them, while also being just human and very interested in the success of your own band and music. i imagine it would be a very confusing thing.
i have a hard time understanding how a person becomes a legend. cobain as an idea is bigger than cobain the man or bigger than even cobain's music. that bothers me. he's a huge thing to live up to if you like that kind of music, and his legacy is created by the mass mind: by society deciding to annoint him.
don't get me wrong, i'm a huge fan. but there's an irony in this that drives me mad. his music was successful partly because it held an honest, tongue-in-cheek mirror up to 'commercial' society. and yet he ends up becoming a god within that society. that's what artists do, i guess. but i'd prefer to think of him as just a regular guy. his sense of humor obviously was.
Apr 06, 2004 02:34 pm Well it's typical to become a "legend" after death, in many cases it's part of the greiving process I think, when one dies they become larger than life. If that one person is just a little local boy like me or you, you become a legend, for lack of a better word, among those that knew you. With somebody like Hendrix, Cobain, Morrison, Lennon, etc, they were "known" by the world, and therefore the legend that follows them into death is exponentially larger.
And yes, before anyone pisses on my parade here, YES Cobain's name does belond beside those Hendrix, Morrison and Lennon. While a tortured soul, and of arguable music skills, he is the man responsible for moving the grunge movement into sight of the mainstream, and in my mind, is surely worthy of a legend. The ill-fated life and death just makes it more dramatic and more of a lesson.
Just my opinion, take it for what it's worth.
DanMember
Since: Nov 21, 2002
Apr 06, 2004 02:38 pm well, im not a huge nirvana fan, but i cant deny that what they did changed the face of music. he killed himself, and that is not something that i respect. But i think that he died before his music had a chance to go down the tubes, i think he had already passed his prime, also at that point his voice was already destroyed. and dont get me wrong, i do like them, i like and respect their music, I just dont consider him the tragic hero he is made out to be. I could be totally wrong too, perhaps had he lived he could have made more great music, but i just dont see it. Either way, the music he DID make changed face of music, and its hard to deny that. RIP
Apr 06, 2004 03:43 pm hey db, those are some excellent points. i never really thought about that way before. and of course, i agree that his name belongs up there.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 06, 2004 06:28 pm Totally agree with most points made. I will stand behind dB on the fact that yes, he does belong in that group with Hendrix, Lennon, etc.. He and the band brought life back into a very dead time in music, and I dont mean dead as in dead, I mean new and creative stuff was coming few and far between. It is ashame that he killed himself, or was he drawn into it by the she devil he married. Some hidden facts are coming out and have been, about what really happened to him. He was preparing to rid himself of her from what I read back then, as she was very unhappy about the fact he was not intending to give her anything if he did die. Some believe, and there is also some fact that she was behind the massive amount of herion he was doing at the time. Did she get him so stoned and then verbally drove him into the deepest darkest hole and then suggest he end it all and become a saint? Who knows, but even though I like some of her music, I still think she jumped on him for the wealthy ride whe could have and that is all.
Apr 06, 2004 07:13 pm i think she sucks, but i cant believe any courtney theories unless i see solid evidence. i've seen the case against her, as laid out by that tom-detective fellow and others, but it's often the case with events that are very much in the public eye that alternate theories emerge, some possibly real and some definitely not. kennedy. elvis. "did we actually go to the moon."
Apr 07, 2004 09:46 am damaged goods, both of em.
i can't beleive it was 10 years ago! nirvana as a whole changed the face of music, he was the frontman, there were two others in the band as well. and they both still make music.
his band changed music in a way that hadn't been seen since appetite for destruction (whihc chaged a lot of rock i think) and probably hasn't happened since, or if it has i've missed it!
Apr 07, 2004 09:48 am The only difference there is that Nirvana kept making good music (in my opinion) whereas after Appetite, G 'n R just went downhill...fast...Appetitie rocked, I can not think of one single good song they did after it tho, it all went to hell in a hand cart.
Apr 07, 2004 10:04 am truth! but that album, at least in the UK, hit real hard! there wasn't much actual balls out rock about, not that felt as dirty as appettite... . i was a punker and it was nasty enough for me!
same with bleach, that album really got me, more so than the soundgarden i was listening to at the time.
Apr 07, 2004 10:07 am Oh, ya, Appetite rocked over here too, absolutely kick *** album. It actually made me believe there was still potential for great hard rock...I still rock out to it now and then, but that was the only worthwhile thing they did, from there it was ego driven, drunken idiocy that made them implode.
Nirvana, well, I love them all...and yeah, there were two other guys in the band, but Nirvana was all Kurt...and he made sure of it. David Grohl just sat back and played drums, wrote songs and kept them to himself until his day in the sun arrived, and it did...Chris...well, he'll always play a supporting role...in my opinion.
MauzgrrrrrrrMember
Since: Mar 29, 2004
Apr 07, 2004 11:12 am Nirvana did an amzing thing. I think they are one of the first bands to have a really quiet verse and then a rocking chorus.
I am sure he wanted recognition for his music, but when people began to listen to it just because it was 'cool' this turned him off slightly. After all if you are a messed up artist trying to deliver some twisted message and everyone says 'great, great!' it could become frustrating if you think nobody is really listening. It becomes a mockery. Like modern art where - some famous artist who just throws paint at a canvas and everyone tells him that is genius. And with his friends over tea he giggles at everyone's stupidity. This unconditional praise disturbed him and forced him to write stuff like 'rape me'.
In my opinion the bass and drums were secondary. Because such fantastic emotional and powerful material could only come from a disturbed, twisted and beautiful soul as that of Cobain.
PS - I tihnk he would have been into HRC!
Apr 07, 2004 11:18 am Quote:
I tihnk he would have been into HRC!
That is probably the single coolest thing anyone has ever said about HRC...thanks, it made my day...
We have, on rare occassion had a couple big-shots stop by. And a couple people who thought they were bigger shots then they really were...
MauzgrrrrrrrMember
Since: Mar 29, 2004
Apr 07, 2004 11:24 am Well I am certainly not big as I am just a little Mauz!
Apr 07, 2004 12:15 pm i thought use your illusion I was actually a good album, though a lot of what was on there could be termed 'ballad.' but come on...don't cry? november rain? those are actually lovely songs. it didn't rock like AFD but i think the songwriting was still on the upswing at the time of UYI.
Apr 07, 2004 12:17 pm eh, I thought Use Your Illusion was painful. It was the best of the downhill slide tho, I'll say that for it.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 07, 2004 06:54 pm I own all the G-n-R stuff and The Spagheti Incedent was the absolute worst. Illusion wasnt good but as dB said, it was the best of the downhill slide. To bad the head has to get so big with some of those guys, they might have been something if it hadnt happened that way.
Apr 07, 2004 07:54 pm Argh, the Spaghetti Incedent made me embarrassed for them, since they were too arrognat, drunk and stupid to be embarrassed themselves...
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 08, 2004 10:18 pm I thought that would park an Argh from someone.
Apr 09, 2004 12:29 pm i never heard that album. i just noted the title and wondered what had snapped.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 12, 2004 10:58 pm I will advise ya not to spend the money. It is the most embarassing thing I have ever heard. Although Slashes guitar work is stupendous on the disc, the rest of the band is left behind in his dust. And you can tell by his playing he must have been totally disgusted with himself for even being involved in that.
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Apr 12, 2004 11:46 pm ..."Cool Ranch Dressing"...
Apr 13, 2004 07:32 am they kinda lost it for me when izzy left...
and slash is from stoke!
if anyone's been to stoke, you'll know how funny it is that he was in one of l.a's coolest bands!!
glynbMember
Since: Dec 16, 2002
Apr 13, 2004 08:32 am I don't know.
Would we even be talking about him if he hadn't of topped himself?
Thing is, he didn't live long enough to expereince a backlash, to produce some crap music, to renounce what he'd said in his youth, to get straight , to grow old(er), etc, all the things that happen to rock stars in due course (unless they die during the crazy years like he did).
Case in point, look at Axel Rose today... if he had died in the 'early 90's asnd Cobain had lived maybe he (Rose) would have been the icon for the current generation, but he didn't, he survived.
That's why I ask, if Cobain had survived would he have been as big as he is now - would everyone have paid homage to his music if he'd lived on to make some bad albums? My personal view is that we wouldn't we talking about him much.
Thing is about these rock stars, (and actors etc - Jimmy Dean), is that all the pics of them are as angry young men, so they appeal again and again to successive generations of young people.
Imagine how big Eric Clapton woulkd be now if he'd died during the 'Cream' period and Hendrix had lived on....
We like our rock stars dead, don't we!
Apr 13, 2004 08:39 am Good point all around glnyb. I totally see what you are saying. Axl Rose did live long enough to be exposed as the a-hole that he is. Cobain very well could have done the same thing.
"It's better to burn out, than to fade away"
Apr 13, 2004 09:03 am but for every axl rose, there's a joe strummer, a johnny cash, a willie nelson, an englebert humpedink (ok, so i started to run out...)
Apr 13, 2004 09:08 am I doubt the ratio is that high, but I do see your point.
Apr 13, 2004 09:38 am i did realise i was gonna be clutching at straws if i carried on!!
Apr 13, 2004 09:39 am We're musicians, clutching at straws is a life style.
Apr 13, 2004 12:35 pm i take comfort in the notion of johnny cash and glenn danzig. two old folks who still draw legions of fans, maintain(ed) thier talent--and even got better with time--and kept thier aura of danger.
i think cobain would have kept an iconic place in musical history for spearheading the 'alternative' charge, which was and will always be a huge thing. yet, when he died, i found myself mad at him because i wanted to see him produce a few bad albums here and there, and come back, and change and grow. the last thing i wanted was for my idol to become the world's idol. that was just so wrong on so many levels and i still itch with anger when i see the media making a big deal out of it.
it would have been better to fade away. we might not be talking about him this way. he might have bowed out of music and became a painter, or he may have stuck around and evolved. the memories of the greatness of the early nirvana albums would have been all i woulda required to continue to appreciate cobain. but personally, i like to imagine he would have kept doing music and would have gone down a completely different musical road right at the time post-grunge began erupting in '94, with all these distorted, dynamics-filled blank radio songs (like my own songs). cobain would have by that point been collaborating with beck, doing an original something called junkyard-cabaret expressivo. happy and largely ignored, except for those who chose to continue to listen. and then he would have surfaced again with a fantastic rock album and the media would have proclaimed 'the return of nirvana.'
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Apr 13, 2004 12:46 pm sounds great!
ug2102Member
Since: Feb 03, 2004
Apr 13, 2004 11:22 pm just a quick comment. although i respect nirvana, i find it kind of odd to think of them as revolutionary. i think the term evolution is much more fitting. that comment about the quiet verse, loud chorus had been done before, the pixies are a band that come to mind immediately, as do some older punk acts, though obviously not to the extent that nirvana took the principle. without taking away in any way from nirvana's genius, some of their huge influence also has to do with circumstance and the time that they released their album.
i look at a band like big star, who are absolute pop geniuses in my mind, who were completely glossed over in the 70s, and i think if their stuff had been released by the right people at the right time they would be much bigger and influential than they are now.
nonetheless, nirvana were a great band.
Apr 14, 2004 02:10 am yeah, kurt definitely stole from the pixies. which makes me like him even more. brings him down a bit from that pedestal. plus, i too want to be able to steal. and i will. oh yes.
i've never heard of big star. what are they like?
glynbMember
Since: Dec 16, 2002
Apr 14, 2004 11:02 am "but for every axl rose, there's a joe strummer, a johnny cash, a willie nelson, an englebert humpedink (ok, so i started to run out...)"
Thing about those guys is another principle comes into play, providing you live EVEN LONGER.
First they are cool, very cool, and some **** up and die young and stay forever cool, like Cubain and their place in rock history is assured. However, some live longer, long enough for the backlash and to make some uncool music, get fat, go bald, etc, but then providing they live to be old they suddenly become cool again partly because they've just been around for SO LONG, but also people do look back at the glory days and reappraise them. Occasionaly these artists also have a late period of great creativity and actualy produce some good music again (like Cash did).
McCartney and Bowie are cases in point. Both of them are extremely cool again now, after periods of critical er...criticism eg Bowie - Tin Machine, McCartney Wings/frog chorus - all forgiven now!!!
The only other thing about these guys growing old is that it's important they can still perform live, which both of those mentioned I can personaly testify CAN and How!
Not to mention Tom Jones...
ug2102Member
Since: Feb 03, 2004
Apr 14, 2004 11:44 am big star are an american band from the 70s who have some resemblance to zeppelin but with much more emphasis on pop elements like harmonies and melody. check out #1 record by them. alex chilton, the main creative force behind the band has been worshipped by many musicians including beck and the replacements. if you've ever seen that 70s show, the song at the beginning is a cover of a big star song.
Apr 14, 2004 11:45 am Then there is Dog Star, a lame *** band that has Keanu Reeves on bass guitar...
Why do all actors wanna be rock stars and rock stars wanna be actors? And very few can actually do both...
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Apr 14, 2004 12:07 pm oh, i dunno, look at david bowie...
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 17, 2004 10:42 pm OK, Bowie was an exception to the rule. And you can all hate me for this but John Bonjovi's little stint into acting was heralded as being a great performance and they wished he would do more. He graciously bowed out after the one low budget, very meaningfull movie. Rested for awhile and came back to sold out arena's with another tour with the band.
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Apr 18, 2004 10:50 am if i get rich and famous, i hope id never be in a movie - cos ive never wanted to be an actor and someone struggling to get into the business and who really wants it could have the part instead.
same thing when all these soap stars get signed to recoird labels and people who live and breathe music cant get a look in...
Apr 19, 2004 05:47 am if they made a film of my life i'd get danny devito to play me.....
oh, and glyn, no-ones forgiven mcartney for the frog chorus, it's just been blanked from collective memory to allow peace.
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Apr 19, 2004 06:10 am mojo magazines got a wickeed article on nirvanas last recording session this month, well worth a look
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Apr 21, 2004 10:56 pm Hey pixel and glyn. I am bummed and gotta admit in the day whan that first came out I thought the frog chorus was kinda kool. It was differant and kinda fit the tune. And it was very differant so it got attention.
el musicoFreeleance Producer/Engineer/GtrMember
Since: Aug 11, 2002
Apr 22, 2004 12:34 am I lost the lead singer of my then favorite band and the girl i had a crush on that same week. that was a tough time as a young teen.
