Feb 17, 2004 09:25 am This one has now been added to the Member's Music section, pro instrumental category.
New Song --> "Train Song" by TheTincanbug
Posted on Feb 17, 2004 07:58 am
TheTincanbug
sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member Since: Aug 05, 2003
2/22/04 - I just went back and remastered the song. Check it out...
this is the old version...
paganwisdomcd.getmehosted...2nd_mixdown.mp3
Edit: here's the link to the mastered version, just finished it...
paganwisdomcd.getmehosted.org/train_song_remixed
.mp3
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Feb 17, 2004 09:25 am This one has now been added to the Member's Music section, pro instrumental category.
Feb 17, 2004 10:56 am nice. yeha i hear the train too hehe. fun and organic song. as for the recording, i notice alot of lots of things happening in the mid and low mid range that all seem a little squeezed together with no individuality, as well as a real lack of any high crispness. I know the 012 can pick that sort of thing up so i hope you havn't EQed the highs out destructively (the drum is really begging for more upper clickiness to shine thru). as the guitar is just a bit too mids heavy. this is what could be preventing you from bringing it up in the mix. as for overall loudness do you have any kind of maximizer plugin? for that matter what software are you using? i might be able to recommend some free plugins or something :O)
listening for the third time now on headphones. beautiful solo
Feb 17, 2004 11:19 am Thanks for the input. I use Cool Edit Pro and the standard plugs that come with it, and no, I don't have any maximizer plug-ins save for hard limiting. I agree with you about the action being in the mids, mostly. I'll be adding some nice crisp highs when I get the chance, on pretty much everything but the bass and maybe the acoustic guitar in the background. I haven't removed highs from anything, so that's not a problem.
Yeah, I'm just loving that mk012... I'm just so impressed with the difference in what I can capture now and what I could capture before, with only the dynamic mic.
Musically speaking, I tried to capture the feel of a freight train rushing along clackity-clackity-clack in the quiet countryside. The specific parts I tried to do this with were the fast, steady drumming, as well as the "train whistle" in the bass part of the chorus. Anyone hear what I'm talking about?
Feel free to include your comments in the Reviews for the song displayed in Member's Music. (hint, hint)
Feb 17, 2004 01:25 pm I have left you a review. Some comments on the mix:
I do agree with Jamie that the highs could come out a bit. Also, it seems to me that the bass is present at times, and kind of goes away at other times. I'm not sure if this is on purpose. I really like the guitar on this track. Nice and mellow, but riding at the same time. I didn't hear the bass train whistling but at the end, it sounded like it said "all aboard".
Feb 17, 2004 02:16 pm "I didn't hear the bass train whistling but at the end, it sounded like it said "all aboard"."
Really? I'm floored... there's nothing like that in there... :) The bass thing is really just a - uh, whaddaya call it when an instrument imitates a non-musically-occuring sound? (I should know this, I took Music History) An allusion? I don't think that's the word I want. Anyway, that's what it is... It's where the bass, in the chorus, goes "boop - boooooooooooooo....." Well maybe it just sounds like a train whistle's cadence to me... hahahaha
uh, coolo... I see a new review from you for my song "Wiggle & Twitch", but not for "Train Song"... crossed wires?
Thanks for the comments! I'll have to look into that bass problem... It shouldn't be going away like that. Nice call. I've got a few cascading bass tracks from where I "punched in" at different points, they probably got compressed unequally or something.
Feb 17, 2004 03:44 pm yeah, the bass does the all aboard thing (in my ears anyway) at 4:21. Actually it doesn't really sound like the stereotypical all aboooooooarrd. Its more like all-a-board. Um, yeah, I guess I did miss my target on the review. But you know what I mean right?
Feb 17, 2004 05:20 pm Good one Tincan! I think you've captured the train theme pretty well there. All the levels sound pretty good to me, the lead *might* be a little loud but by the time you finish adding some hi's and stuff in the mix I think it's gonna be about right. I didn't notice the bass problem but my phones tend to be bass heavy anyhow, so thats probably why. :)
choo choooo...
Dan
Feb 17, 2004 10:36 pm Here's the mastered version, I just finished it:
paganwisdomcd.getmehosted...nal_mixdown.mp3
Feb 17, 2004 11:27 pm I really like the sound of the hand drums here. mine always sound twangy. These have a nice pop to them. How all did you treat the drums?
Feb 18, 2004 08:48 am Let's see... They were recorded with the Oktava mk012 mic. I ran the drums through an external compressor initially, then into the sound card. Then, I used compression on them again, to smooth out the signal even further (which is pretty much the key, I've found - compress the hell out of 'em and then bring out the definition by giving it an eq boost). Finally, I gave the highs and lows a fairly big boost, and added a small eq boost to the mids.
Initially I tried recording them with two mics, using an sm57 as well, hoping to get a richer, thicker sound - they ended up sounding weird and wavery, "not all there."
Feb 18, 2004 08:52 am What kind of attack/release are you using on the compressor?
Oh, and on the 2 mic thing, weren't you putting 1 above and 1 below the drums? If so, then you might try inverting the phase of 1 of the mics since they'd be facing each other.
Feb 18, 2004 08:59 am coolo: "yeah, the bass does the all aboard thing (in my ears anyway) at 4:21."
Ok, I just heard what you're talking about... That wasn't meant to be "all aboard", though it's kind of cool that you heard that in there. Instead, the bass at that point has just begun carrying the melody along with the guitars, as the melody has dropped into the bass range. It happens twice prior to that as well, in the first and second verses.
Feb 18, 2004 09:07 am "What kind of attack/release are you using on the compressor?"
uh... real fast? :) sorry... the attack is just about as quick as it'll go, I think the release is at the halfway point on my unit.
"Oh, and on the 2 mic thing, weren't you putting 1 above and 1 below the drums? If so, then you might try inverting the phase of 1 of the mics since they'd be facing each other."
Well, yeah, but that was my old "pre-mk012" 2-dynamic-mic configuration. I tried with two above this time, using a ceramic drum that was closed at the bottom anyhow. The mk012 was about 2 feet above the head, and the sm57 was about 7-9 inches above. It sounded surprisingly crappy. The mk012 sounded a lot better by itself - although it's sensitive enough that you can hear me panting on the drum track, heh heh heh... you try playing that without panting after a few minutes! hahaha :)
Feb 19, 2004 01:47 am Final mix sounds real good Tincan. Man I don't know how you kept up that pace on the hand drums thru the whole song without screwing up! :) Real sweet job!
As far as tips to get the guitar stronger, you can do most of what programs like Ozone do in CEP. It's a bit of a pain in the you know what but works pretty well.
For example you can do multi-band compression up to 8 bands (though I think 3 or 4 is about the most you'd want to mess with). Just insert your mix (pre hard limited) into multi-track, then Effects->Frequency Band Splitter. That will split the track into how ever many bands you told it too and insert them into separate tracks (don't forget to remove or mute the original mix). Then apply compression and what ever other effects such as reverb, you'd like to play with to each track. When done mix the tracks back down.
Dan
Feb 19, 2004 02:44 pm olddog, that's really good advice. I think I may play around with that a little more. I don't think I've ever used multiband compression in my life - sounds like it could be really useful to me. Thanks for the tip.
See, this is what I get for using presets... I gotta really delve into the capabilities of cool edit pro and figure out how I can make my stuff sound, if not pro, at least like an amateur with too much time on his hands. If I can't actually be the guy with too much time, I can at least sound like him... :)
Feb 19, 2004 03:01 pm "Final mix sounds real good Tincan. Man I don't know how you kept up that pace on the hand drums thru the whole song without screwing up!"
Thanks - but I did screw up. That's why you're hearing the best parts of 5 different takes, chained together... oops, I've said too much.... now I gotta kill ya...
:)
Feb 19, 2004 09:46 pm Yeah there is a ton of stuff in CEP/AA. Some of it is pain to make use of such as the frequency splitter compared to Ozone where it lets you work on the mix rather than have to split the frequency's, but it does work well.
You can also create a stereo buss and send all the tracks to it and apply the limiter on the buss so you can see how it sounds with Hard Limiting applied as well. I wait to apply the limiting till after you've mixed back down and done whatever you want to do in wave editor like normal.
Dan
Feb 20, 2004 11:44 am Final mix-first i really enjoyed it. really like the guitar work. it did sound like the insturments were- mixed too close together eq wise. if that makes sense. hmm, sounds dumb but i dont know how else to explain it.......its really nit picky overall it had a pleasing relaxing feel though.
keep up the good stuff
Feb 22, 2004 08:18 am I just went back and remastered the song, based keeping your tips in mind. I think this final mix adds a lot of punch and clarity not heard in the first one. I was liberal with the eq, trying to cut out a space for all the instruments in the mix, and even ended up cutting out some of the hiss in the guitar solo. The guitars are also more compressed, which made the song less airy and more punchy, which I like.
Check it out...
this is the old version...
paganwisdomcd.getmehosted...2nd_mixdown.mp3
Here's the final version...
paganwisdomcd.getmehosted.org/train_song_remixed
.mp3
Feb 22, 2004 02:47 pm Indeed it is a bit more punchy. The guitars stick out better and everything seems a bit settled in the mix now. Not a huge differance but noticable to me at least. I cranked it up along with the old version and the new version did sound better loud then the old version.
Feb 23, 2004 02:26 am Yeah, I didn't listen to your second mix, but I like this 3rd one better than your first. I really like the guitar in the second half of the song. Really thick (and creamy). My sister was in the room and said she liked the song too (she got a kick out of the woot woot touch).
Feb 23, 2004 02:38 am Yep I think this is the best mix TCB, really sounds good to me. :)
Dan
Feb 23, 2004 08:59 am Thanks, guys, I really appreciate your comments. I think my mixing/master skills are starting to develop. Maybe one of these days I'll revisit my old stuff.
I'm thinking that my next tune may be a radical departure from this style... I'm getting bored with mellow, stable songs. I have no idea what I'm doing next, but it probably won't sound anything like this...
Feb 23, 2004 02:35 pm I hear ya there TCB, my next one is gonna break the mold for me (or at least bend it), I have 20 more years of influences to work with and release. <G>
Dan
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