Sep 12, 2003 02:31 pm oh and im considering adding compression and reverb by mastering it in cool edit-is this a good idea?
decent drum sounds
Posted on Sep 12, 2003 02:30 pm
aongodavo
Member Since: Jan 21, 2003
i want to record some of my own material onto a tascam 414. im aware if the bad pre-amps but want to know d best possible drum sound i can get with 2 dynamic mics. also does anyone have any tips for bass simulation, i can do it on my zoom 505 pedal but it doesnt sound great, just want something to give it some oomph!
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Sep 12, 2003 02:31 pm oh and im considering adding compression and reverb by mastering it in cool edit-is this a good idea?
Sep 12, 2003 04:56 pm I see three possibilities: The two dynamic mics could go a few feet in front of the kit in an X-Y configuration.
Or you could do one overhead (pointed at the snare head) and one a few feet in front of the kick drum.
Or one in front of the kit, at approximately bellybutton height, and one on the snare.
Try it each of these ways, and see whether you like the sound.
I think I understand the situation: you can only do two simultaneous tracks on the 414. If you want to spend more money (ha ha), and add mics, you could get a cheap mixer ($60 for a six-channel Behringer) and run this submix as two tracks--left and right--into your Portastudio. There's no harm in doing it as a submix (rather than running both mics directly into the 414), because you aren't going to be able to get a lot of separation in either case. Three or four mics, submixed, will probably give you a rounder sound than the two.
By "bass sound," do you mean bass guitar or bass drum?
Oh, and yes--a compressor is a good idea.
Sep 12, 2003 05:25 pm I like the X-Y idea. That's the stereo image trick right? Where both mic capsules are really close together but pointing at perpendicular directions?
Two mics are fine but if add more or start moving them around I think you'll encounted some phase issues. Certain positions will cancel and reenforce certain frequencies.
Sep 12, 2003 06:52 pm Let me give you my personal opinion on the two mic thing (I've had to do this before and have actually achieve great results):
Place one mic completely within the Bass drum (On a stand) pointing at the beater (about half-way between both heads).
Now, imagine you're sitting at the drum set. Place the second mic on a stand right behind your back and to your left (The snare side) at about shoulder hight. Have it point downwards slightly at the snare drum, facing slightly away from the hi-hat and more towards the toms.
This should make the snare a bit more present and louder than the toms, while at the same time soften the sound of the cymbals.
Although you won't get much of any stereo interaction, you really need to mic the bass drum to get a decent sound out of it in my opinion. Make sure you load the bass drum with tons of eq in cool edit. Scoop out a lot of the mids and leave the bass at around 80hz, and keep most of the highs too. Experiment a bit.
Reverb is good, although you don't want to overdo it, and I wouldn't recommend using it on the bass drum as it may subtract from its punchiness. Eq is a necessity as the set will probably not sound very tight without it. Go through the mid-frequencies and cut out what sounds bad-- but don't overdo it. Compression is great and always makes a huge difference, ESPECIALLY on the bass drum and snare drum. A ratio of about 4:1 is usually good and a fairly quick attack with slighty longer release. Fool around with the threshold until it sounds good-- It depends on what kind of a sound you want. Anyways, good luck!
Sep 13, 2003 05:47 am Porp got there before me.
Always mic the Kick ('cos you have to) and then run one from behind the drummer, as high as the stand will permit, pointing at the rack toms. Don't worry about the snare, it can take care of itself from the overhead mic.
Also remember to run a mix of the kick and the overhead through a compressor, have a 4:1+ ratio with fast attack and release times, this will make things sound a lot more punchy.
jues.
Sep 13, 2003 07:08 am thanks for all the help, its great! madpuffin i mean a bass guitar simulator, i can do it with my zoom505 pedal but it doesnt sound great-more like an amp about to blow-i want something a bit more chunky, prob not possible without a bass!!
Sep 13, 2003 07:13 am Here's what I do
Play in the bass line on your guitar and then pitch-shift it down an octave or 2, it works suprisingly well!
jues.
Sep 14, 2003 09:02 am madpuffin-where can i get an 6 channel behringer for $60? was looking on ebay and they're more expensive-i can only buy on sites that accept money orders cos i aint got a credit card, and where shipping to ireland isnt too expensive
Sep 14, 2003 09:05 am i seached on "behringer mixer" and found two MX 602's right away
high bid $30 with 5 hours to go cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI...;category=41472
high bid $42 with 7 hours to go cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI...;category=41472
i think the trick it to buy used. here's the MX 802, same one I have, high bid $53 with 11 hours to go cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI...;category=41472
Sep 14, 2003 09:35 am Brand new here is the 602 for $59.99 service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear
Or an 802 for...wait...$49.99! service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear get it while you can! That is a great price...
Sep 14, 2003 09:56 am of course those that dB mentioned are the newer UB series which are supposed to have better sounding preamps than the MX series.
dB, what's the difference between the UB602 and the UB802? They seem to have the same # of ins/outs
Sep 14, 2003 09:57 am oh nevermind, that 602 you linked to is an MX. the MX602 is the MX equivalent to the UB802.
confusing
Sep 14, 2003 10:52 am Thats a weird naming convention, I didn't even notice that they are so similar.
Dude, for $49.99 I'd get that UB802, seriously, that is a good little mixer for a really good price.
Sep 15, 2003 11:28 am My mixer is an MX602A: service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear
I understand that the UB mixers are supposed to have better preamps, but the MX is all right for most of my purposes. When I want to warm up a signal I run it through my ART tube preamp (which includes a phase reversing button to take care of Jamie's phase concern). Snares sound nice when run through the tube.
I also liked jues's solution for the bass--playing the bass line on the guitar and pitch-shifting. There are stomp pedals that do this, if you're not interested in doing it with your computer.
Sep 15, 2003 04:15 pm Quote:
(which includes a phase reversing button to take care of Jamie's phase concern).
not necessarily. i think that's only assuming that the mics are the same distance from the sound source, and with something as large as and having as many different points of sound source as a drum set, the phase switch will simply flip which freqs are being boosted and cut.
but i'm only beginning to get into the intricacies of acoustics. i say this not from personal expereince, but just from my understanding of math and the propagation of soundwaves
err.. what a mind@%#$ this early in the morning
Sep 15, 2003 04:34 pm <quote>this early in the morning</quote>
Sep 15, 2003 04:15 pm
omg, what time zone are you in that 4:15 central is early in the morning? :-D
I bought a Boss OC-2 dual octave pedal in hopes of doing exactly that (use it for recording). It has independant control over the dry signal, a note that's 1 octave below, and a note that's 2 octaves below. Excellent idea in theory, but not really in practice. In order for the pedal to track the notes with any consistency, you need to have your guitar on the neck pickup with the tone knob all the way down, just like you would when tuning. The notes that are then produced sound more like a low-frequency sine wave than the complex tone that comes from a bass guitar. I was rather disappointed.
I did have good results micing my acoustic guitar, playing a bass line on it, then pitch shifting in cool edit. The problem there is that you can only "dial in" up to 11 half tones up or down. Past that, you need to know the mathematical "multiplier" that represents how many semi-tones you want it raised or dropped. so I ended up with almost an octave below what I wanted, but the attack and tone sounded very similar to a dry, picked bass guitar!
Sep 15, 2003 05:05 pm I'm east coast US, I just can't be in the sunlight
the pitch shifting in WaveLab is prettty precise
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