Is it possible to record big metal guitars with line 6 POD????
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Posted on Jun 28, 2010 06:42 pm
Kaboombox
Member Since: Jun 28, 2010
I've heard that it's possible but what I'm getting isn't anywhere where it needs to be. The sound is too thin. The Guitars definitely need more "Balls".
Any Suggestions????
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pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jun 28, 2010 07:34 pm Maybe play the pod into an amp, then record the output. Put some room 'presence' into the recording. Maybe not.
That said, i also haven't had much thick guitar sound luck with my line6 thing.
I've had some nice results with shred from acmebargig. It's free, and quite spiffy.
Jun 28, 2010 09:00 pm I'm trying to setup a way to do this at home instead of the studio. I just downloaded this recabinet software. I'm thinking I can run through the POD and use the Recab plugin to create that presence.
Layers????
Yay or Nay?
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Jun 28, 2010 09:53 pm i was under the impression the POD was geared almost directly towards metal, i havent used the newer ones but i remember being impressed with their mesa/boogie emus way back on teh first version of the POD already.
Layering definitely, EQ for sure, but remember that heavy music isnt all guitars, which i think is the trap alot of ppl fall into. Get a nice pushing distortion (totally achievable on the line 6) and make sure its ewll mixed wiht ur bass and kick drum and when u chug it will definitely be heavy.
Room presence is an issue i guess, but u can achieve that with a relativley simple setup at home, if u just want some air on ur track. All in all i would say the POD should handle it quite fine.
Jun 28, 2010 10:02 pm Oh, no, it's not geared toward metal at all, while it does have some good dirty models that are well suited for it, there are models for all sorts of styles, most any.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Jun 28, 2010 11:57 pm well im going to layer my tracks with POD and real guitars.
POD is already awesome for metal, that combined with the real thing has got to sound ****hot.
Jun 29, 2010 01:16 am I usually blend POD Layers with Mic'd Cab takes. Still They've been coming out thin
I Mic the cabs with a C414 or a U87 and blend that with less distorted layers
still too thin :(
I guess I'm having trouble deciding the right amount of gain to achieve chunk and clarity
Jun 29, 2010 01:21 am Maybe I'm Cutting too many mids????
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Jun 29, 2010 01:39 am got anything to upload? wouldnt mind a listen.
Jun 29, 2010 02:23 am I threw a track up... go listen and critique the **** out of it!
I need all the help I can get.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Jun 29, 2010 04:20 am had listen. sounds heavy as ****.
i like.
The guitars though, have too much distortion, or maybe too much presence.
thing with mixing is, if you put too much of anything over and above its natural sound, you'll be restricted as to
getting that natural fat sound across.
example, youve got drums all tricked up, and in your mind you want the clickiest and most brutal sound possible. So you crank up the top end on the kicks and O/h's to bring out the crispness.
Thats all fine and good, but now youre limited to how loud you can now get the meat of the sound which is hiding behind the added eq.
So you bring up the level and now its way too clicky and sounds stupid.
same goes here, too much dist, "cant get the meat up." hahaha.
funny ****.
but its true, no meat = no meat, anyway you look at it.
Obviously all this added fizz and stuff takes away the definition too.
Compression is a diffrerent story, me i just take off the peaks and thats it. I wanna hear those strings bouncing in and out, up and down unpredictably and dynamic.
too much compression and bang, the dynamics are gone. nowhere to be found.
i hope this helps.
Jun 29, 2010 06:53 am Thanks a ton dude! I'm working on a session now and will be mixing in a week or so I'm hoping to see some better results :)
I'll post up the new jamz when I'm finished.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Jun 29, 2010 08:12 am sounds good mate.
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Jun 29, 2010 09:56 am yeah i would second deon, the guitars r way heavy already. I think ur jsut looking for more definition, more string attack n such, which u could get from less distortion
id try layering a heavy track say using a mesa emulation with something like an overdriven marshall/tube screamer type sound to give u the clarity on top and ballz on the bottom
Jun 29, 2010 09:59 am One question, are you using the pod farm plug in or one of the devices? Either way, i love line 6's stuff. Takes some tweaking for sure though.
The guitars sound pretty o.k. in my opinion. I know what you mean though, it's not quite *there* yet. The guitar tone sounds better IMO than the bass drum though. I'd say work on that first then find out whats missing with the guitar tone. Can't hear the bass much, but i know often a heavy bass tone will balls up the guitar. Especially when it's got a nice heavy growl distortion going on. Oh, and try using slightly different tones on the different layers. Or even two amp sims on the same guitar track if you're using pod farm.
Jun 29, 2010 03:34 pm Im using an originial POD on this recording and I believe somewhere in there i blended the Rectified sound which emulates the Mesa setup. Maybe for Shits and Giggles next session I'll run the guitar through a channel selector in to 2 cabs to record.
As far as presence and adding air to the guitar.... Does that mean I need more reverb or I need to boost the top end on the guitar EQ?
haha or maybe neither of those things.
another thing.. as far as the individual layers that build up each guitar (let's say I only have 4-5 tracks per guitar, at max, I'm running Pro Tools LE) How much gain or distortion should I use on the separate layers?
......as far as my drums go. That has potential for a whole new thread.
haha
Quincysanhttp://www.unitedmusicians.infoContributor
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Jun 29, 2010 05:11 pm CptTripps would/may tell you to get the distortion where you like it, then back it off 2 or 3. Seems to work well enough for me...but metal isn't my day to day affair
Quincysanhttp://www.unitedmusicians.infoContributor
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Jun 29, 2010 05:18 pm After listening to the track I can agree that you have a dynamics issue with your guitars. I'd re-record them using less aggressive distortion and layer until it sounds heavy enough. All that OD is killing those dynamics...but it does indeed sound big, unfortunately a little TOO big.
Jun 29, 2010 06:06 pm I believe I bussed the GTR tracks to a compressor.
Is it good to compress distorted tracks like that?
Jun 29, 2010 06:08 pm sure, mild compression can help, turn up a higher band of EQ can bring out some sizzle in the distortion, some lower a little more balls...EQ can work wonders.
Quincysanhttp://www.unitedmusicians.infoContributor
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Jun 29, 2010 08:27 pm Compression can help tame a guitar performance if that's what you're after, but I don't believe additional compression is what your mix needs right now. I think cutting the highs on your guitar tracks might help, but that's more like a bandaid then a fix in this scenario.
To me, and I'm a novice, it seems like your guitars are too compressed. I think it could be but is not necessarily appropriate to apply light compression to the guitars through a common bus, like it sounds like you've already done (I assume this is what you did: assign all guitars to "Bus 1-2" then use an Aux track with "Bus 1-2" as the input and a compressor as an insert on the aux track). Someone speak up if I'm wrong but I don't think you should try to compress all your guitars that way unless you can hear a reason in the mix that might compel you to do such a thing. I don't think that applying universal compression will give you the type of crushing tone you're looking for. It will definitely sound huge, but it might sound more like eight 5150's in a concrete tank vs Behemoth.
I should have been more clear about the dynamics comment I made earlier. What I meant to say is that using lots of distortion can defile your guitar performance kind of like a compressor can ruin the dynamics in a mix. Notice how when you record a clean lick on the guitar the waveforms look sparse when compared to a gain heavy lick, which looks more like a block of compressed audio. When you overdub multiple takes of the heavily distorted guitar parts, the waveforms will more or less look like a block of compressed audio (even though a compressor wasn't technically used, the audio will have a compressed quality to it). Visualize what it might look like if you stacked all those already blocky looking heavily distorted guitar regions on top of each other. You'd get a seriously block looking waveform, where each part is more or less the same thing. Now on the other hand, imagine the waveform of a crunchy, yet not quite saturated tone. The region will look less block like...but when it's solo'd it will also sound kind of limp. That's ok. Now imagine 8 guitar overdubs using the crunchy settings. Since each guitar track's performance will (probably) vary a little, there will be nuances in each waveform to make it unique from the last. Now imagine all 8 of these crunchy tracks on top of each other, in their individual parts they might sound/look puny but when you stack them on top of each other you'll get a pretty blocky looking region not unlike the blockiness of a single guitar track recorded with heavy distortion, but the block will be less uniform in it's composition. The result should be just as BIG as the guitars you have on this track now, but it will sound less loud and it will sit in the mix a bit nicer...that's my prediction anyway hah.
Now if you play back those layered guitars and it still doesn't sound good to you, then you'll know next time that you need to distort each individual tone a little bit more. As an alternative, you could try that common bus to a compressor scenario. You should be able to fatten up the guitar parts by compressing them some. If the compression sounds lame, then you would need to re-record using a higher gain setting on each guitar.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Jun 29, 2010 08:31 pm yeah i agree with db.
Alittle comp. just till you see the meter every now and then move a touch.
My guess is, the main prob is too much dist, but this is also combined with too much of the presence setting on the amp head in POD.
The more guitars you put in there, the more you have turn the dist of all of them. it builds up.
main thing that kills a metal recording in my opinion is too much fizz. that goes for all instruments and fx.
Too much tops on everthing, cymbals, gits, vocals, verb with too much decay and or tone, and too heavy a compression can do it and as a total, youre gonna get a fizzer.
Jun 29, 2010 09:12 pm Thanks Guys, I'll play around with that session when I get the chance and see about posting my improvements
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jun 30, 2010 01:12 pm In regards to the original question about it being possible to record big metal guitars using a POD and EZDrummer. Devin Townsend used a POD to record the Ziltoid album. Good enough for him = good enough for me!
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Jun 30, 2010 09:02 pm Dev=God
Hey BH, say hi to him next time you see him for me? hahaha.
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Jul 02, 2010 12:18 pm It may/may not be a good thing to note that there are two different 'engines' for the POD-modelers.
The desktop PODs, Pocket PODs, and the FloorPODs use POD 2.0 engines, where as the XT, X3, Vetta, and Flextone amps are Vetta-based.
We use them both in live, and recording applications, and the difference in gain-staging between the two is pretty huge to my ears(and right hand)... PODs just don't have the 'attack' that the Vetta-stuff can achieve.
GeoffSM7b the Chuck Noris of Mic'sContributor
Since: Jun 20, 2002
Jul 04, 2010 04:22 pm i'd like to say most guitar players are going to think how thin there guitar sounds when recorded as a single track or soloed. what has worked for me is , when i think i have the tone i want , cut back on the distortion, then i layer the guitar parts (not copy, but re-record a 2nd ,3rd pass) , add in a deep bass line and the rest. If you add in too much bass or mids on the gtr , they tend to muddy up the rest of the track .
GeoffSM7b the Chuck Noris of Mic'sContributor
Since: Jun 20, 2002
Jul 04, 2010 04:23 pm oh and Line 6 stuff is quite capable .
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jul 05, 2010 06:32 pm Quote:
Hey BH, say hi to him next time you see him for me? hahaha
Hey Deon, I was lucky enough to get to pick his brain on a few things a couple of years ago. He put on a workshop that I attended.
He is on tour right now in Europe but is doing a North American leg in the fall.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Jul 05, 2010 07:45 pm cool, i saw him here about a month or so ago, his show was absolutely astounding.
The people here really loved it. They dont always with international acts. its depends how they treat the crowds here.
Ive seen shows where the crowds here can turn on the act in 2 seconds.
but they were all just in awe of him. How could you not be really.
he's standing up there sweep picking and smiling while singing. it was truly awe inspiring.
at one point i lost sight of him and then someone touched me on the shoulder, i turned around and Dev's standing right behind me with that evil grin of his, moshin out with that new 7 string V baritone.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jul 05, 2010 09:40 pm Last I heard he had a really cool setup for producing/mixing etc. He bought a farm (haha, bought the farm) in a really nice area of BC. Was going to set it up as a guest ranch kind of deal. He would have a studio where musicians on their off time could ride horses, quads etc.... boating the works. Haven't heard if he got it off the ground.
He is an outstanding musician and a very down to earth person. His on stage appearance is certainly a contrast to his off stage personalitly.
When we spoke he went on to tell me that his Ziltoid project was to see what he could do himself....entirely a solo project. This is what inspired me to comment in this thread. He is a metal master and for him to do the entire album with a SM58, POD and Ezdrummer speaks HUGE as to what can be done with a minimal amount of equipment. I honestly don't remember what interface he used but I'm going to guess at Pro Tools. Also part of this program was Gggarth Richardson (who I still keep in contact with), Kevin Williams, Mike Fraser, Jeff Dawson and a few others. It was a very cool workshop.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Jul 05, 2010 10:14 pm man i would come over form Aus to go to a workshop in a hearbeat.
If you hear of any coming up, could you let me know? I would really appreciate it.
also, the stuff im doing atm is POD, SD2 and SM7b. ironically similar, obviously nothing as close as what he does.
I have some stuff up @myspace if you wanna check it out.
lemme know what you think?
www.myspace.com/2ndgraderenegade
cheers Deon.
