eq advice

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Enter title here
Member Since: Apr 13, 2009

Deleted By armack5

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Enter title here
Member
Since: Apr 13, 2009

May 01, 2009 02:35 pm

hello all, i am new to the board.

i just posted a song and i am looking for mastering advice. i want to know in general if you would make any changes to level/compression/eq.

song is called 'the blame is mine' and can be found under my profile. (sorry my links to it will not work)

i am especially concerned about the eq since my room is very small and therefore lacking in any bass frequencies.

i have listened to this master in all of the places i have access too (car, living room, cpu speakers, headphones) and i am looking to get some more ears in different environments give me advice on this.

the song is (rock) and has a few F-bombs so beware.

thanks for any advice
armack

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006

May 01, 2009 02:36 pm

I'll try and get to this after work.

Enter title here
Member
Since: Apr 13, 2009

May 01, 2009 02:39 pm

awesome thanks!

Pinnipedal Czar (: 3=
Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004

May 01, 2009 03:50 pm

Eq-wise... I couldn't suggest a thing. All the instruments are sharing space together nicely. Nobody's stepping on anyone else in the mix whatsoever.

Well done!

It took a bit to get used to the mix, but by half way through the song, my ears had grown to like it. Again, nicely done.

Enter title here
Member
Since: Apr 13, 2009

May 01, 2009 07:40 pm

excellent!

thanks for listening

MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2008

May 02, 2009 01:23 am

(Keeping in mind that it's basically impossible to comment on mastering issues without hearing the original mix)

You've got the opposite of what usually happens in rooms with bad treatment - There's no low end. There's low mids - But there's no "meat" on the bottom. Not the kicks, not the toms, not the bass guitar.

(Granted - this is the better of the two potential problems - by a long shot)

As a matter of personal taste, the kick's "clicky" frequency isn't flattering to the song... It sounds disjointed from the "air" (as in, the impact - the "poof") of the kick. Again, personal taste, but it's very "pointy" at on odd frequency and that makes it distracting to my ears.

That snare is a lot to live up to... It's really a focal point. For the snare, it's great. For the rest of the mix, it almost sounds "too good."

Nothing particularly "irritating" though - That's a good thing.

(Another "granted" - These are all mixing issues)

Enter title here
Member
Since: Apr 13, 2009

May 02, 2009 12:44 pm

cool thanks for the advice MassiveMaster

so do you think i should bump up the eq in the low range, say around 50 hz. maybe i could put the waves max base plugin in before the limiter.

also for the high part of the kick, i could remix it and eq just the kick track to remove some of the click. also in the remix what would you suggest with the snare, a general lowering of the snare volume,, or something else.

i can post the pre master of this song if you want it, just let me know.

thanks again

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

May 02, 2009 09:28 pm

cool song.

i can see what ya mean on the snare and kick.
kick just seems to be missing low end body.
as for the click of the kick, it might sort itself out once there's some bottom end on it. the click of the kick seems to be too much towards the mid range. like at 2hz or around there.

i would go for a less clicky kick for this song anyway, but tis just me.

the snare seems to be apart from the rest of the kit somehow. maybe somethin to do with O/H positioning.

all this, is of course if you are going for a traditonal run of the mill mix.

its different, to me different is good.

MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2008

May 03, 2009 01:08 am

The snare just plain sounds bad-***... I don't know if it's a copper badge or a free-floater or just dumb luck, but it makes the rest of the mix want to be as cool as it is. It might have to be "sacrificed" a bit for the betterment of the whole.

The kick... It's not the "amount" of the click - It's the wrong frequency and it's way too "pointy" - I'm all over a nice 1991 Lars click - But "clickies" are a fairly broad-spectrum sound. I used to trigger band-passed white noise samples along with muddy kicks to get those clickies. Making a tight-Q "point" makes it sound very synthetic.

And speaking of "synthetic" (nice segue, I know...), I'd avoid the MaxxBass if at all possible... Never liked that thing. If there *is no* low end available (bad kick, bad mic, whatever) and you *need* to synthesize it, there you go. If you can bump the fundamental a little (or cut/shelf it less than it is now if that's the case), it's the shortest distance between two points.

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

May 03, 2009 01:58 am

after a second listen, i reckon its the bass guitar making all the extra clack.
it more a clack than a click. its very well disguised, but there at the same time.

did you use just one kick mic on the inside of drum?


Hey MM, whats the go with the white noise sample you mentioned for kicks?
whats the theory behind it? sounds interesting.

im doing the whole muddy kicks on one channel and real clicky ones on another wth drum software atm and it works well. is the white noise thing designed to cut thru more? would like to try it.

MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2008

May 03, 2009 08:45 am

Just a burst of white noise (several milliseconds - depending on the kick) that you could tailor to the mix. Triggered by the kick.

Not as ideal as getting a good kick sound, but you can put some attack on a "fluffy" kick with it.

Enter title here
Member
Since: Apr 13, 2009

May 03, 2009 01:19 pm

for the drums i recorded them in a extra terrible small room. i used close mics and then overheads for cymbals. i converted the close mics for the snare toms and kick to midi, then i triggered Strike to get the drum sounds. i kept the original cymbals from the live drumming.

so do you think i should pick different samples from Strike and that that would fix the problems with the kick and the snare? i am confused about what you dont like about the snare, but i want to fix it!!

thanks for the help

MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2008

May 03, 2009 04:41 pm

No - The *snare* sounds *fantastic* -- It's making the rest of the mix sound small in comparison.

Enter title here
Member
Since: Apr 13, 2009

May 03, 2009 05:46 pm

ok cool, so i will work on the kick sample and try to give a boost (or stop attenuating) the ultra low.

i will post a new thread with a different song once i have these corrections made.

thanks for the tips guys

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

May 03, 2009 10:10 pm

what softy are you using f drums?

my snares in BFD sound similar. they have 3 close mics, it sounds really big.

do you have bleed control on the O/H's?

if you could get some room ambience or something like that on the rest of the kit i think it might pull it in line more. like i was saying before, it sounds like its a little out of sorts with the rest of the kit.( not too much though)
you could duplicate the original drum track as a kinda room mic track.

thats just my spin on it though. try before you buy i guess.




Enter title here
Member
Since: Apr 13, 2009

May 03, 2009 10:26 pm

i am using digidesign strike for my drum samples. it has a bunch of options mic wise. i will try adding some more of the room mics to see what that does.

i think my problem is that i am using the actual overheads from the live drummer session, then replacing his toms,kick,snare with Strike. when both are mixed together i think it doesn't mesh well.

i cut quite a bit of low-end out of the overheads to try and get rid of everything but the cymbals, but you know how that goes.

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

May 03, 2009 10:38 pm

use a "gate" on the O/H's so the mics only pick up signal when the cymbals are hit.

takes a bit of tweaking but that will fix that issue.

just throwing some ideas out there that ive tried before, have a shot at using the original drum sounds, very softly behind your triggered sounds. so effectivley you are layering the drums.


whether ya do it on this mix or not is your choice. just an idea for future stuff.


Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006

May 04, 2009 12:08 pm

First off, nice song. Well sung, catchy and well written.

Now I can't comment on the drums specifically as my work speakers have no lows but will offer some triggering advice.

I have used drumagog to replace kick, snare, toms while leaving the overheads in place. Much of this simply relies on using samples that are not insanely different from the original sounds.

Also, the overheads are usually the heart and soul of a drum track. I would not try to make them work with the drums, but make the drums work with them.

I will listen again tonight and try to offer some specifics.

Enter title here
Member
Since: Apr 13, 2009

May 04, 2009 12:10 pm

i had to do allot of time correction to the midi drum notes, so they dont line up perfectly with the original hits. so i slid the cymbal hits around to put them back in time but of-course it didn't fix the hits that were happening during a cymbal hit decay.

but i will try that gate idea, may sound better than eq'ing out the low end of the overheads.

thanks!

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006

May 04, 2009 12:47 pm

Oooooh, I see what you did. They are not triggered drums but programmed drums that have a live track played over the top of them (or vice versa).

That is a tricky one for sure. You should check out the drumagog demo, might be something that interests you. It is a software .vst triggering program that replaces (or mixes with) hits with sampled acoustic drums.

Frisco's Most Underrated
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003

May 04, 2009 01:45 pm

This is an interesting excercise.

To go back to the original question, just listening in headphones, there is definitely a lack of low end in the master. Also I feel like there's some frequency range that could be boosted and I'm guessing it is somewhere around 2.5 kHz to 4kHz, to give a bit more crispness esp in the vocals. I wouldn't exactly be able to pinpoint the frequency without doing a sweep though.

laugh out loud at a "few" f bombs.

Pinnipedal Czar (: 3=
Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004

May 04, 2009 02:16 pm

I've got to get a grip on my monitoring situation! Just how much low end did this mix need added to it?(How much low end have I missed-missing on my listen?) Are we talking more than a dB, or two?

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

May 04, 2009 05:50 pm

Is it just me or does anyone else get a very Tool like vibe from this????

OH man, that will be one hell of a tune once you get some low end back in the mix. The bass guitar is there yet just not ballsy enough. Same with the kick.

Its almost as if something in you final mix down chain sucked the low and low mids out of everything.

I gotta agree with Massive though on that snare!

I'd love to hear this when you get it tweaked. It some kick arse stuff.

Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006

May 04, 2009 05:56 pm

It reminds me a bit of older Tool but my speakers are so crappy at work I can barely make out anything. But yes, Tool indeed, especially towards the end.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

May 04, 2009 09:01 pm

More then a dB or two Hue.

Yes, Cpt. older Tool is what I was thinking as well.

Enter title here
Member
Since: Apr 13, 2009

May 04, 2009 09:43 pm

hey i love tool so awesome thanks for the compliments!

and drumagog, nice call that is exactly what i used to convert the live drummers close mics into midi which i then fed into digidesign strike (after fixing timing issues)

i have used the drum samples that come with drumagog for other recordings but i wanted to try strike this time. drumagog is sweet to use but i was having difficulties with this particular drummer because he is a very soft hitter, so drumagog was having some problems. i had to remove the false triggers out of the midi track that drumagog put out. after that it was easier to just put it through Strike.

i am working on some new eq curves and kick samples tonight. hopefully i can post a new track tomorrow after work.

thanks all!

Enter title here
Member
Since: Apr 13, 2009

May 04, 2009 11:13 pm

ok i changed the eq curve of my master, but i did not change the kick sample or do any other remixing.

i have the new full tack called
blame_new_eq

and a snippet of the old track called
blame_old_eq

see if you think this fixes the problem of not having enough low end. if not i will try a remix!

thanks all

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

May 05, 2009 01:30 am

to me it dunt sound that much different, im more aware of the bass guitar now though, the kick if anything seems too much out there.

im on computer speakers though.
the more i hear the song the more i like it too.

Enter title here
Member
Since: Apr 13, 2009

May 06, 2009 12:36 pm

thanks for the compliment!

yea i am afraid it may be to bassy now (is that a word)

i wish they could come up with a headphone system that could take the room acoustics out of the equation.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

May 06, 2009 05:42 pm

I don't know that I would call it too bass heavy now. I can distinguish the bass guitar now very well. And the guitars have a lot more balls to them while still retaining that grind in the mid's.

I can hear the kick better now. I downloaded the old mix last time so I had that too compare it with. Although I will say it is still a little soft sounding it is there. I think it might be that you just need to boost the level ever so slightly on the kick and you might be OK. That or find the frequency it is occupying and cut a bit out of the guitars to make the kick come out a bit more. But I would try the level up a bit first.

I'm with Deon as well. This song really kicks arse indeed.

Enter title here
Member
Since: Apr 13, 2009

May 07, 2009 08:47 pm

well thank you for the *** kicking compliments.

yea i am all paranoid now so i started messing with the multi compressor and so now its all changing. i need a big room so i can actually hear what the bass is doing.

wish me luck, i will post some new songs with the new treatments soon,

thanks again for all the advice

MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2008

May 07, 2009 11:54 pm

Quote:
yea i am all paranoid now so i started messing with the multi compressor

For [SELF-CENSORED]-ing WHAT?!?

Maul-the-band compression has no place on a mix without having a very specific issue - which should be fixed in the mix anyway.

I've heard more mixes completely wrecked from MBC than anything positive ever coming from them...

Enter title here
Member
Since: Apr 13, 2009

May 08, 2009 08:42 am

hahaah

so massivemaster, do you think i fixed my bass frequencies problems with my new eq curve. (blame_new_eq track under my profile)

if so then i will leave it alone i promise!

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