New Idea (for me) In Mastering

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Frisco's Most Underrated
Member Since: Jan 28, 2003

So, I went to a mastering workshop this weekend put on by a local pro audio store. The guy doing the workshop is a local pro and works out of a ridiculously nice studio. Anyhow, he offered an idea that I had never heard of before calld midside processing. Basically it's seperating the mono from the stereo and processing what's happening down the middle and out at the sides seperately. Now, I have a bit of reading to do on on how to actually seperate the mono from the stereo, but I thought that was a pretty insane concept, and allows for extra flexibility when mastering. Has anyone heard of this before, or tried it before. I don't remember seeing it mentioned on this site and I've been up on this site at least 3-4 times a week for the past 4-5 years...

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Frisco's Most Underrated
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003

Sep 22, 2008 02:10 pm

I found this:

emusician.com/mag/emusic_front_center/
[quote]
The process for encoding left/right to M-S and decoding it back again requires a few more channels than M-S recording, but the tools and concepts are the same (see Web Clip 5). The goal is to separate everything that the left and right channels have in common from what is unique to one channel. That means reversing the sum-and-difference matrix used for recording.

Begin by making two copies of the original left/right mix. Duplicate them onto four mono tracks on a DAW or split them to four channels on the console.

Pan the left/right tracks from one copy of the mix to the center. If you like, send them to a mono subgroup in order to control them with one fader. That will become your mid, or sum, channel.

Next, pan the tracks from the other copy of the mix to the center, and reverse the polarity of the right channel. Send them to a mono subgroup, too, if you like. That will become your side, or difference, channel.

Now you have independent mid and side channels from a left/right mix, which can be balanced and processed independently. Because you'll want to listen in left/right stereo, take the mid and side channels and decode them as if they were M-S mics.

What you've done is add the two left/right channels together to make a mono signal that creates the mid channel. The side channel was also created by adding the left/right channels together. When the polarity of one of the channels is reversed, however, any sound that was common to both gets canceled.

You can prove the math by taking a left/right pair, encoding them as M-S, and then decoding back to left/right without making any changes. Assuming your gear is operating as it should, the original and post — M-S left/right tracks will be exactly the same. (To be sure, try flipping one pair out of polarity against the other.)
[/quote]

Pinnipedal Czar (: 3=
Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004

Sep 22, 2008 02:39 pm

Very cool, coolo ! I've often wondered what those "m/s" plugins were referencing . Now I'll have to figure out how to use them properly . = )

MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2008

Sep 22, 2008 10:43 pm

I run my entire chain in M/S sometimes. More often than I'd like to admit actually...

I think Voxengo makes a freeware M/S codec plug...

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Sep 22, 2008 10:49 pm

The gentlemen that masters the music I do for a certain beverage company is strictly and M/S guy as well. More then I personally like.

But it is not music going to CD and is strictly radio and TV commercial fair so the bigger sound is what they are after I suppose since TV and radio can squish a standard stereo mix. Just theory on my part really as to why he does it.

But yes, some very heavy synth recordings I have done have been strictly done that way and the end result has been much more vivid to use a fancy word.

Veni, MIDI, Vici
Member
Since: Jul 02, 2008

Sep 22, 2008 11:39 pm

Thanks for the article coolo! Really interesting and definitely something I will explore more and experiment with.

Frisco's Most Underrated
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003

Sep 23, 2008 01:22 pm

MassiveMaster, thanks for the heads up on the voxengo plugin, I'm going to have to check see if I can find something like that.

Nightcap, Hue, I'm just excited at coming across a new idea too, and thought I wouuld share.

Noize, what do you find about M/S processing that bothers your sensibilities? Aka, what do you think one should watch out for when exploring this option?

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Sep 23, 2008 07:24 pm

I would not really say it bothered me. It just kind of felt unnatural at the time for what I was doing. I think to my ears it was the fact he made things seem spread so far apart compared to what my original piece was.

My mixes were originally made at the clients request to sound a bit crowded, almost mono. And he just made it sound so wide and spread out which took away from the kind of raw feeling the client originally wanted. But in the end he won out and that is what was used.

And to be honest, on a big stereo TV set up it did wound good. Just not while I was sitting in the studio.

As for watching out for things. I guess simply getting an unnatural sound by spreading things too far out.

I really like the idea and the way it can make a mix sound in the end. But it can sometimes be over used and take what might have been a wonderful sparse mix and spread it out too far leaving big gaps were there used to be sound.

If that makes any sense.

MASSIVE Mastering, LLC
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2008

Sep 23, 2008 07:32 pm

Not to speak for Noize, but M/S is a rather delicate and rather powerful thing. When used properly, it can swoop in and save the day like some sort of superhero. When used improperly or when it's not called for, it can mess things up terribly and easily.

(EDIT) Heh... Here we go with that "not refreshing the browser" thing again. :-)

Veni, MIDI, Vici
Member
Since: Jul 02, 2008

Sep 23, 2008 10:40 pm

Yesterday and today I experimented some with M/S and that made it absolutely clear to me what Noize and MassiveMaster are talking about. It's indeed very easy to mess things up very quickly. Of course messing up is also part of getting familiar with the concept. Without failure no learning. :-)

For the first time I was able to make instruments, in a rather simple way, sound wider than the monitors. It didn't sound very natural, the gaps Noize mentioned above, but since it was an experiment I couldn't help smiling.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Sep 24, 2008 06:47 pm

Massive, you and I are getting good at this. :-)

(EDIT)The not refreshing thing I should say.

coolo, the best advice is to do as Nightcap just did. Experiment a little with it and see what you think.

Just a little piece I thought of late last night. We used to record in a space that had a room that was a bit large and was great for drums. We would use M/S recording to get a bigger sound on the kit. Which is simply setting up a pair of mic's, one pointing directly at the center of the kit from about 2.5 meters out and the other is directly under it pointed to the side. The second mic is preferable to have it set to use a figure 8 pattern for this.

Then as Massive described above for M/S mixing you simply set the straight on mic dead center on panning and then copy the side pointed mic to another track and pan each track hard left and right setting the right channel track's phase reversed.

This is not with an exact same result as the mixing version but pretty similar. We really learned this out of need as at that time a full set of good drum mic's were not in the budget.

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