Some bands just don't do it for me...
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Posted on Mar 24, 2008 03:50 pm
TallChap
Answer:On a good day, lipstick.
Member Since: Jun 24, 2004
All this is based on personal opinion. I don't have anything against this artists, and I'm not disputing their illustrious careers/influence on modern music etc. End of disclaimer:
Twice this weekend I was amazed at how terrible some supposedly professional bands are.
1. Rock'n'Roll hall of fame inductions. Did anyone catch Iggy Pop? Bad. The band were terrible. The guitar player was either drunk or useless. Not good. Bass player was less on the beat than that guy from Nirvana.
2. VH1 Classic Concerts. Kiss 1998 in Los Angeles. I don't get it. The most talented in that band were Gene Simmons (actually some nice bass playing) and Peter Criss. The other two were terrible. Not very good at all.
Sorry to all you die-hard fans out there, but these two performances were just average at best. Kiss had the benefit of fire/lasers/smoke/fans in make-up so the show kinda became it's own beast. The band were just not very good. Iggy Pop was just bad. The same show had John Melloncamp and his set (apart from the 'audience participation' bit which was, to my mind, ill advised) was very, very good. They've all been at it for a long time, and they make a living at it. My question is why they think that mediocre performances are acceptable. We all have bad nights, but after 30 years of day in day out touring and practice you would think that these would be rare.
End of rant.
Address all hate mail/death threats to me.
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Mar 24, 2008 03:52 pm I gotta say, over the 30 years or so, Gene Simmon grew into one hell of a fine bass player...
That said, when it comes to big shows, well, the room can make a great band sound crappy, and also, every band and any member of a band, is entitled to an off night...it happens to the best of s.
...well, except for me, of course...
I saw the Stones twice on their Bridges to Babylon Tour...once at Soldier Field and once at the Metrodome...the show at the Dome sucked...lousy sound, tired band...same set, same between song banter...very different vibe.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Mar 24, 2008 05:03 pm I can't say that I've heard any staduim-sized shows that actually sounded good. There's something about gigantic, open spaces that just doesn't do any favors for the sound. Of course I always have nosebleed seats for those kind of shows but even on TV they always sound pretty bad. Plus you have the psychological effect that giant shows have on the band. Everybody seems to think that they need to yell/sing louder and their singing techniques always break down under those circumstances. guitarists strum harder, drummers wear themselves out quicker from pounding harder. The giant stadium arena-rock show is just a lose/lose situation for the band and the crowd IMO.
In Iggy Pop's defense though, his prime was before I was born and in those days his goal was to be loud, snotty, rude, borderline schizophrenic, and morbidly interesting to watch onstage. That hasn't really translated too well into his later life. I agree though, his recent shows rank right up there with Lou Reed's recent appearances as some of the worst live performances I've witnessed on TV.
I've always viewed Kiss as a novelty band. They were 90% marketing and 10% rock. I guess you just had to be there. Again, they hit their prime well before I started speaking English and stopped pooping in my pants...
...which was just last week.
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Mar 24, 2008 05:23 pm I dunno, I've seen some big bands in big venues and I've seen small bands in small venues. I've got a pretty good idea of what I think is good and what isn't. These two performances (above) were just shoddy playing. The sound I can extrapolate.
My wife maintains that The Rolling Stones are the worst band she's ever seen, so it sounds like they suffer from regular inconsistency (???). Can you imagine if we performed our regular jobs with that kind of inconsistency? They don't get small amounts of money to do what they do, and they've had the practice, and they have f*** all else to do all day. Just strikes me as unprofessional.
Plus, I was in London during the 1976 punk thing, so I do "get" the vibe etc. I just don't think Iggy's band were very good at all. Look at any of the survivors from back then, and most of them have turned into pretty good musicians (echoes the views above on Gene Simmons...hehe).
Yeah, everyone has a bad night occasionally, but you can't tell me that Iggy's band/Kiss are "great" every other night. Not a chance. I know what control freaks Kiss are ($300 million in merchandising does not make anyone 'casual' in my books) and they would not have released the footage without thinking it was great....
I should just let it go. It doesn't really matter. I'm just "liverish" I guess.
Mar 24, 2008 05:45 pm When you reach the level of performance of the groups named I think they have an obligation to at least be good. I've seen Robin Trower, War, ZZ Top, Santana and Pieces Of A Dream, all great groups.
Some nights were better than others but no bad nights. Bad acoustics I wouldn't put on the band.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Mar 24, 2008 05:53 pm Ha, I went to see Kiss a few years ago, like 5 to 7 years ago.
I drove down from northern michigan to detroit area to see them after work, so it was a long day.
Skid Row was great, Ted Nugent was great. Kiss was kinda ok, then I fell asleep for a few songs, then woke up for the last few songs =).
They were real boring on their new(ish) stuff. The classics were good, but otherwise, ugh.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Mar 24, 2008 05:57 pm I agree 100%, at that level there might be a bad show once in awhile but not every other one.
Kind of makes you wonder how important the music is compared to the paycheck anymore.
Mar 24, 2008 07:09 pm I saw Queens of the Stone Age and Smashing Pumpkins last night. They were great! But I have internal organ damage from the mosh pit.
Iggy and the Stooges were OK when they came to NZ. They were ****** up but they got the crowd going and everyone in the mosh pit was drunk and high anyway.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Mar 24, 2008 08:21 pm QOTSA is where it's at!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 24, 2008 09:46 pm TC, I've seen the Kiss one you are talking about. And yes indeed, I don't think it was simply an off night. It could maybe be partially blamed on the audio techs though to a certain extent as the mix on that show is horrific to say the least.
I've seen Kiss many times in different venues and have to admit I had never seen them sound that badly at all.
As for Iggy, yep seen him many times as well. Mostly good, a couple really bad. I know he turns to crap when the band is off. Not sure why but he does.
Which brings me to last years hall of fame show or VH1 honors or what ever it was. ZZ Top was absolutely hideous and I do mean hideous. I was sitting there with the boyz and pumping myself and them up for the big ZZ Top part of the show and it was a complete let down. I was actually embarrassed for them and could feel myself turning red. I have to agree that bands can have an off night, but a big night like that and they simply played as if they were in a drunken stooper.
Mar 24, 2008 09:50 pm Well, Iggy and The Stooges were never known for their playing abilities. For the most apart, it was kind of their thing. As for KISS, what ever. Gene Simons is jerk. Meet him once during the KISS Army tour. Fatso didn't even say a word. (During that time, he must of weighed about 290 + )
As far as stadium shows not sounding good no matter what. I strongly disagree. I have worked that level for years now. And sure, I have had my bad days. That no matter what you did, it just would not come together. But, I have had many shows that it sounded just like the CD. Groups that it was my first time working with them. People in the audience were coming up to me and asking how many years that I have been with them. Because it sounded if I had been with them for the past ten years or so. They are always shocked to find out that this was my first time working for them.
Hey Tallchap. What bands were you with in London? My wife was working with a lot of punk bands from Birmingham during that time period. I also have a good friend from that area. Justin Grearly. Do you know him?
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Mar 24, 2008 10:00 pm i dunno what the pre reqs are for the music hall of fame.
Do you get inducted for musical talent, or just for an overall contribution to the music industry?
obviously there is a difference, one can make money and fame in music, doesnt mean you're any good though.
Then again beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
how many successful muso's are there though that just plain suck.
alot of the time its not about the music IMO.
that's what really sucks about it sometimes.
some muso's (and i ues he term lightly) dont care if they suck and have no musical integrity at all.
Money honey, gimme more money, i'll do anything, you just market it.
Mar 24, 2008 11:13 pm QOTSA were sooo good!!!!! Unreal to see Josh up that close :-D.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Mar 25, 2008 12:00 am I saw the Black Sabbath reunion tour in detroit. It was very well put together.
the trio played just like the CD sounds, and the audio / mix was just like the CD sounds.
Both artist, and support staff really nailed a good one that night. It was way cool.
conversely, I've seen Nazareth around the same time, downtown detroit, and they blew huge chunks. They should have retired. Maybe they have now, as I haven't seen their names around lately.
Dragonforce was a great mixed show too.
Children of Bodom & Iced Earth show was rough. Not very well mixed, and Iced Earth was lethargic and slow. COB put on a good performance though. They were the highlight of that show.
Quote:
Gene Simons is jerk.
Haa! That's great. After seeing him on celebrity apprentice, I'd have to agree, though I don't know him personally =).
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Mar 25, 2008 12:00 pm Rob: Don't know your friend. Sorry.
Back in those days I was firmly a heavy rock type, but I "got" the punk thing.
I'd have to say that I agree on the stadium size gigs the sound doesn't have to be bad. I remember going to the "Monsters Of Rock" festival at Castle Donnington (1984 ish) in England. All the bands sounded excellent from where I was sitting/standing. Well, Accept were shite and were 'bottled' off the stage. After that everyone sounded great - Gary Moore, Van Halen, AC/DC, Motley Cruë even.
I've seen many bands at Wembley arena which is notorious for bad sound and had a great evening. Yes, The Eurythmics, ELO, and ZZTop stand out. The show was amazing.
As I mentioned bad sound is one thing, but it can be forgiven if the band "brings it." If they don't, great sound will get you nowhere. I don't think Iggy or Kiss...er....brought it. Just going through the motions is unprofessional. The price of tickets is incredible these days (I know, overhead, expenses etc.) and the fans do deserve a good show.
If you can't be bothered, don't bother.
Mar 25, 2008 10:58 pm Quote:
After that everyone sounded great - Gary Moore, Van Halen, AC/DC, Motley Cruë even.
watch this.
As you can hear Van Halen doesnt sound so great especially on this current tour with DLR. playing through a whole song with the wrong guitar! ouch! unacceptable.
this is just one example of how bad eddie van halen has been on this tour. there are plenty more if you search. The rest of the band seems to be sounding ok, even DLR.
Mar 25, 2008 11:51 pm Ooooh! Ouch. Just don't listen to that vid. That is just..... just God awful. This almost reminded me of Mick Jones of The Clash. If you ever watch the tapes from Bonds, it's just as bad. But, I'll give Mick credit, it was hotter than hell in Bonds. So, just maybe that affected the guitar. As for Eddie... well... even Pete Townsend had horrible nights.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Mar 26, 2008 09:19 am man i would have to say the guitar tech is to blame f that one.
sounds out about half a step!
you could actually hear it throwin out the vocalist, was that sammy hagar?
the crowd luved it though ha ha ha
Mar 26, 2008 09:22 am I heard that on here a while ago, that is baaaaaaaaad.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Mar 26, 2008 10:47 am Quote:
I've seen Nazareth around the same time, downtown detroit, and they blew huge chunks. They should have retired. Maybe they have now, as I haven't seen their names around lately.
Nazareth has been gigging around Vancouver for many years now. I saw them play a small club around 8 years ago. Chatted up Dan McCafferty for awhile and got him to sign a LP insert. Later that evening a big fight broke out over their share of the gate - lol
BTW - that problem with Eddie's solo was because the keys were out by 1 1/2 semitones which made it sound like he was playing out of tune. Not saying that his playing has been very good on this tour anyways.
Mar 26, 2008 07:52 pm Quote:
BTW - that problem with Eddie's solo was because the keys were out by 1 1/2 semitones which made it sound like he was playing out of tune. Not saying that his playing has been very good on this tour anyways.
the keyboard issue was debunked. it was all eddie and the wrong guitar.
JDODBrother Number OneMember
Since: Jan 22, 2008
Mar 27, 2008 04:46 am I agree, tatty perfomances from so called professional musicians are unacceptable. You can understand that some nights are better than others but there is no excuse for plain bad timing and mistakes.
A few of you have seen QOTSA and really rated them. I saw them and they was terrible. I was really disapointed. I've always really liked them, and was looking forward to it. But the levels were wrong, the singing was flat, they were out of time and making mistakes.
That was in Hyde Park in London, the Foo's headlined, they sounded great! and Motorhead were on before QOTSA and they sounded great. I was suprised by how good motorhead were actually, still sounded really enthusiastic and really into it - not bored at all. The new stuff seemed just as gutsy as the classic stuff to.
Anyway, the point is, I like QOTSA and was looking forward to them more than motorhead and Foo Fighters. But as it is, I would probably not go and see them again, whereas I'd definately go and see the other two again.
I only caught the end of Juliette Lewis' band and cant remember anything about it.
Mar 27, 2008 05:31 am The QOTSA line up changes with each album. My flat mate went to that concert as well JDOD, he said QOTSA were average, but on the latest tour they were great IMO.
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Mar 27, 2008 11:30 am I saw Nazareth on the "Expect No Mercy" tour. Does that age me or what!?
They were good then.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Mar 27, 2008 12:00 pm Quote:
the keyboard issue was debunked. it was all eddie and the wrong guitar. Seriously?? Wow, that really sucks then. I originally thought that he was tuned downed to Eb by accident but then I was corrected. Either way it was a disaster and I've never seen somehting like this happen before by a group of musicians of this calibre. I mean I've done it before but I would expect more out of VH.
TC, one of my first albums was Nazareth Rampant so I think we both date ourselves a bit. They used to be one of my favorite bands.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Mar 27, 2008 12:01 pm Ha Haa! Lemmy Rules!
Mar 27, 2008 12:02 pm If Lemmy and God got in a fight who would win?
Trick question, Lemmy is God!
[quote from the movie Airheads]
Mar 27, 2008 12:05 pm Where was the guitar tech with that VH video? I would've fired that guy in a hurry. A good tech would have an alternate guitar ready for him. C'mon! No professional musician should put up with that. I can't help but think that the tech got tired of working with a prima donna and walked out.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Mar 27, 2008 12:08 pm Ya, that is why I was inclined to believe it was the keys that were off. On the other hand though, the guitar may have been tuned correctly, just to Eb. If Eddy grabbed the wrong guitar because his mind is all messed up, then he has no one to blame but himself.... although he would probably still fire the tech.
JDODBrother Number OneMember
Since: Jan 22, 2008
Mar 27, 2008 12:40 pm I just listened to the VH video! Thats hilarious! Sounds hideous. Saying that, I really dont like EVH and his guitar wankery anyway.
JDODBrother Number OneMember
Since: Jan 22, 2008
Mar 27, 2008 12:47 pm Jesus Christ! I just listened to that again! It goes on and on. You'd have thought a guitarist as good as EVH would have noticed straight away and started moving the guitar parts up to the correct pitch! What a mess.
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Mar 27, 2008 07:24 pm Yeah, it's pretty bad. You know, if Eddie had just stopped the band and said to the audience, "I've got the wrong guitar on". They would have completely forgiven him. Instead he plays on. How drunk do you have to be?
I was once able to sit in on a jam at a party at a reknowned London rehearsal studio - featuring more than one of the Motorhead boys (oh, I have many Lemmy stories...). One of the guitar players (I shall mention no names to protect the innocent) was so f***ed up (well, he's Scottish...ah, dammit what a give-away), he could not tune a guitar - even with the help of an electronic tuner. Very sad. It was a party, and we were all pretty drunk/ Consequently this is completely forgivable. If I had paid the $80 for a VH ticket and EVH did that to me I'd be pissed.
Mar 27, 2008 07:55 pm Tallchap, I think everyone has a Lemme story. Guy has been around since forever.
I won't share one of them, but, since we are on a EVH kick. I worked with David Lee Roth over at the Keswick Theater in Glenside PA. Jerk off was trying to show off his martial arts. He was swinging his numchucks around, hit himself in the back of the head, and was out cold on the stage. The audience was in tears, as we had to carry him off the stage. Funniest thing I ever saw someone do.
After we revived him, the performance was so bad, we wished he would of done it again.
