Feb 10, 2003 12:28 am does it have subs?
Hooking up my Rack to the Mixer
Posted on Feb 09, 2003 11:03 pm
Loki
Cone Poker
Member Since: Apr 07, 2002
Alright. I'm using a very old mixer with no FX loop and was wondering how I'd go about running the rack through it so that I can use my outboard reverbs on each track?
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Feb 10, 2003 05:26 am Without any loops the next step would be to look for inserts on the channels, if there are none of those. Then I think you will have to run the main (non-powered) outs into the reverb I would think...but it's early so my brain isn't at full capacity yet...
Feb 10, 2003 10:02 am No Aux Sends? Erk - old mixer :)
Right, the outputs accessible on a mixer are:
o Main Outputs (STEREO) - This is where you finished mix will be coming out - you probably don't want to put the reverb unit here as it will effect every channel
o Sub Group Outputs (Aka Busses) - Some mixers will have a seperate Sub Group output (mine has 8 of them :) - you can then assign selected channels to one particular Group and send the group output to the Reverb Unit. The Ouput of the Reverb unit would then be send back to a Pair of channels on the desk - however, this solution will not allow you to specifiy "how much" signal is sent from each channel.
o Insert Points - These little chaps are most commonly used for hooking up Compressors or other "dynamics" units. The provide a physical "Break Point" in the channel strip are are connected on TRS (Tip, Ring, Sleve) Jacks. (a TRS jack caries two seperate signals down one wire - allowing for one to be the SEND from the channel and the other to be the RETURN back to the channel.) In theory you could use a insert point for your reverb send, but you will need some TRS Insert Cables and it will only allow you to effect 2 channels at a time (or a single Stereo Pair), and also, Reverb is more commonly placed AFTER EQ, in this configuration, it would not be :(
Which Leaves::
o AUX Sends - which you don't have :( But just to explain, AUX Sends are individual outputs which are controlled by small pots (knobs) - EVERY channel on the desk will have the same amount of AUX sends - the bigger the desk, the more AUX sends it will have. The more you turn the knob, the more signal is sent to that output. You would then hook the AUX Output to the Input of your Reverb unit and the Output of the Reverb Unit would then either be hooked into the Sereo AUX Return, or, if that is not present, you would bring it back on another pair of Channels on the desk. This setup allows you to specify exactly how much each signal (channel) will be sent to the reverb - eg: you may wish to use reverb on a snare drum and a tom-tom track, but you would want more reverb on the snare than on the toms.
Hmmm - I'm afraid that there is no easy solution for you, if you don't have AUX sends - it appears your only option is to apply the reverb and then bounce it to another track.
jues.
Feb 10, 2003 07:59 pm I think I've got aux sends just not an effects loop. I'll let ya know tommorow what I actually have on the back of the desk when I can get to and see it easily.
Feb 10, 2003 09:07 pm that's the loop Loki. If there's aux returns, just put your effects in between the sends and returns. right?
Feb 11, 2003 01:17 pm I think I understand, but just to be sure I'm gonna tell you what the back of my desk looks like.
12 Channels, Line and XLR ins, no inserts.
Each Channel has Pan, Monitor One (reverb/echo) post fader and eq, Monitor Two pre fader adn Eq, High EQ, Low EQ and Imput Level knobs as well as the fader.
Master Section of the desk has Left and Right Graphic Eq, Two Pan knobs, Aux and and Aux two knobs, and a Reverb/Echo knob, as well as a left and right master volume fader and a monitor 1 and 2 fader.
Back of Board:
Speaker Outs (I know how to use these hehe)
L and R Power Amp In
L and R G-Eq Out
L and R G-Eq In
L and R Line Out
Monitor Out 1 and 2
Echo Return and Send
Mon Sub in 1 and 2
Aux in 1 and two
Right now my signal is going from the outputs of the delta to the aux ins, and from the line out of the mixer to the inputs, is there a better way to configure this as to where I can be doing 4 individual tracks?
Sorry for such a long message, but I'm a moron and don't know how to properly set up my desk...
Feb 11, 2003 03:07 pm Hold on, let me make sure I've got this straight - you have the OUTPUTS from your DELTA Soundcard running into the AUX Returns?!
Right - that's your problem mate - you want to run the Outputs from the Delta into Channels on the desk, NOT the Aux's (sorry If I've gotten confused somewhere - but that's what it looks like you are doing).
Failing that - it looks like you would use the "Monitor 2" loop, because I presume this does not feed your studio Monitors (speakers) - or does it?
Hmm, which desk are we talking about here - that would help ;)
Feb 12, 2003 12:22 am Alright, so now I've got the outputs of the delta feeding into two channels of the desk, what next?
As far as what desk I'm using It's a Yamaha Integrated Mixer Em series model 300 (exactly what the mixer says) And no, the monitor outs are not going into my speakers since I don't have monitors the desk, being powered, is pushing my two 10s. Horrible mixing enviroment I know. ALso I rerouted and have the outboard effects looped via the echo send and return.
Jues, you made it seem like a huge deal that I should run the delta outs onto channels of the desk and not the aux returns... why is this so important?
Feb 12, 2003 02:24 am it won't hurt it Loki, i think jues means for you to free up those Aux Returns so you can insert you effects between the Mon Outs and Aux Returns, right jues?
Feb 12, 2003 06:33 am That'd be the one Jamie.
The Monitor out's (1 & 2) are your AUX Sends, so hook the output of Monitor 1 (and Monitor 2 if you want true stereo) into the Input of the FX Processor. The Hook the Ouput of the FX Unit into the Aux Returns (Where you had your sound card running to).
Sorry if it seemed like I made a big deal out of it, it's just that I have never seen a setup done that way before! :) The obvious advantages of running the PC through channels is that it's easier to bus, you can apply EQ and other effects, you have a fader to mix with (rather than adjusting the return Pot) and it frees up the Aux Loop :)
jues
Feb 12, 2003 01:42 pm ok so is there a way now to do it where I can record 4 tracks simultaniously?
Feb 12, 2003 01:44 pm With your Delta 44? Sure. Just use each in separately. Assign each input to a differnet track and have each input feed from a different mic/instrument/DI box/mixer send.
Feb 12, 2003 04:16 pm i think Loki means to get 4 separate channels out of the mixer and going into the Delta. But i think the mixer has only the stereo outs... 2 channels.
Don't you have several mixers, Loki? That's what you need to do, run several mixers and use hard panning to isolate the 2 siganls on each stereo pair.
Feb 12, 2003 04:45 pm yeah I have another mixer, the smaller phonics one. I was thinking I'd be able to use the larger desk but I guess not. Oh well, it's alright, got myself a nice desk to use live.
Feb 12, 2003 05:22 pm dude you can never have too much gear! well, some of these married guys would disagree :O)
i can't find much info on the em300 mixer, 'cept that it's 12 channels, 150 watts powered and from the 70's.
Feb 12, 2003 06:45 pm yeah I haven't been able to find much info on it either. But oh well, it works so it's all good.
Feb 12, 2003 08:29 pm 4 seperate channels, eh?
Okay try this hookup:
DELTA OUPUTS (1-4) -> Channel 1 - 4
MONITOR (AUX) OUT 1 -> Delta Input 1
MONITOR (AUX) OUT 2 -> Delta Input 2
ECHO SEND -> Reverb Unit Input
REVERB UNIT OUT -> Echo Return
LINE OUT (L & R) -> Delta Input 3 & 4.
Okay, not this setup is off the top of my head, but I think it will work. To send a signal to your Delta use the AUX SEND Pots (so, say for example of have an Mic on Channel 6 that you want to send to Delta Input 2, you would use the AUX 2 Pot on Channel 6. Same goes for Delta input 1 as well (except you use the AUX 1 pot).
Where this becomes a touch hectic is where you want to use 4 inputs. To access input 3 on the delta you would need to pan the Signal HARD left and to access input 4 on the Delta, you would pan HARD right. In order to send a signal to Input 1 & 2 on the Delta, you would need to mute the respective channel to stop it going to the Main Mix (but it would still be sent out of the AUX output.)
So, lets do a quick example:
Channel 6 = Acoustic Guitar Mic
Channel 7 = Acoustic Guitar DI
Channel 8 = Bass DI
Channel 9 = Accordian DI (?!?!?!?!?!) :D
And you want to route thusly:
Acoustic Guitar Mic -> Delta In 1
Acoustic Guitar DI -> Delta In 2
Bass DI -> Delta In 3
Accordian DI -> Delta In 4
Here's what you would do.
Monitor all the signals at first and check everything is sounding ok and nothing is peaking (usual practice)
Set Channel 6's (the Acoustic Guitar Mic) AUX 1 (Monitor 1) send to full (turn the knob all the way to the right) and Channel 7's (the Acoustic Guitar DI) AUX 2 (Monitor 2) to full as well - these two signals will not be going to inputs 1 & 2 on the Delta respectivley.
Next pan Channel 8 (the Bass) hard left and pan Channel 9 (the Acordian) hard right - you now have these two signals going to their respective Inputs on the Delta (3 & 4) - but Channels 6 and 7 will also be going to inputs 3 & 4 as well because they are still in the main mix.
To resolve this you would Mute Channels 6 & 7, thus taking them out of the mix - however, the AUX send should still be open and as a result the signal should still be going to inputs 1 & 2 on the delta.
This is not the most elagent solution, but it should work with a bit of luck.
Oh, and sorry if I over simplified it a bit =S
jues!
Feb 12, 2003 11:55 pm alright, thanks a lot, I'll try that set up in the morning. Quick question though, the desk does not have mute buttons, would just turning the fader completely down work or would that take the signal complelely out? (Sorry, I'm a moron when it comes to this...)
Feb 13, 2003 12:10 am Alright, have one more question. Using the set up that Jues suggested above I have my delta outs going to channels 1-4 on the desk, but I am only hearing playback of auido through the first two channels on the desk, 3 adn 4 don't play anything back... how do I go about setting the delta up to send to all 4 outs?
Feb 13, 2003 05:05 pm Well, in response to your first question (About the lack of mutes) - it depends on if the AUX (monitor) sends are Pre-Fader or Post-Fader. If they are pre - yeay! If they are post - oh dear :(
This basically means - does the Aux Send come before the channel fader or after it in the circuit diagram. If they come before (pre) then the output will be sent regardless of the fader position. If they come after the fader (post) then the amount sent to the AUX output depends on the Position of the fader.
Obviously both have their uses, and some desks have either fixed pre and post sets of aux's or are switchable. Seeing as your desk is intended as a "live" mixer, and that the AUX's are called "Monitors" I am gonna go out on a limb here are say that they are probably pre fader sends - so yes, you can just turn the fader all the way down for the desired effect.
As for getting all four outputs to work - hmm, I THINK it has something to do with the driver set you are using? I think you can only access all four ouputs in ASIO mode - but I may be wrong here.
jues.
Feb 13, 2003 10:22 pm monitor one is post and monitor two is pre
Feb 17, 2003 07:21 pm Well, you have answered your own question really. It seems you can only route to 3 outputs - but still, 3 is better than 2 I guess.
Feb 17, 2003 08:27 pm Oh yeah, It just makes me sad when topics died. heh.
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