how the heck do i
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Posted on Aug 17, 2007 07:41 am
fortymile
Member Since: Jan 18, 2003
'ease my way' into becoming a singer? bands want a dedicated person, right off the bat. i love singing, and i want to show up with some beers and just play around. beyond that, i cannot say. i've never been a singer. but i'm mad at how many bad singers and lyricists there are out there, and i realize that i can make this alcohol work for me.
it is very hard to craft the right classified ad. maybe i should start lying.
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WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Aug 17, 2007 08:30 am That's what everybody else round here are doin, both sides of the fence. Exagerate, embelish, sensationalize, make up stuff! The last band I was with ran an ad for a drummer and I thought it was another band. The drummer they snagged promised the world but only wanted to play one preseigious gig for his frinds in reality. Quit as soon as he found out that gig was part of the BS.... never happened. You'll fit right in!
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Aug 17, 2007 08:57 am Same way you get to Carnegie Hall =).
I liken it to guitar playing, the good players / performers aren't just doodling around. They're practicing their craft alot. Like 2 - 8 hours for real players, and 1 - 2 hours for good hobbiests.
That's per day.
My drummer friend's brother is a real player down in Nashville. Does session work, tours, gigs, etc. When he's not on the road, he'll practice 6 - 8 hours a day. But he's phenomenally good at it, so it pays off.
For singers, I've heard some of the practices, and a little of the schedules, and I'd think the only real way of getting to a level you want to be at, is to practice hard by yourself.
The little bit I've dealt with, is that the better control you have, the more confidence you'll have, which is huge when singing. You must be confident in your skill, or it'll show through like a wet t-shirt.
But not as nicely =).
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Aug 17, 2007 09:56 am Yup pjk you are absolutely correct. It is laughable the self perceptions that some folks have developed. I had a drummer in studio last weekend that insisted no drummer could do what was being asked of him. It told him frankly that I knew a few but they were professionals; Drumming was their profession. I say this as the term 'professional' has become diluted to recent. I also admited that to ask them to do the sessions would be cost prohibitive as they drummed to eat and would not donate their services. The guy was put out. In his mind he was as good as any. He stood on his asserction. I liken him and others like him to the folks that are constantly in the loto lines. Their asserctions are supported by the rare occurances where dabblers are piked up and have instant success in R&R. No denying it can happen. For me it's not a point worth arguing. I am however often astonished by how little people know and how much they dream.
Aug 17, 2007 10:12 am Quote:
i realize that i can make this alcohol work for me.
One word: karaoke.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Aug 17, 2007 10:46 am I disagree (the karaoke thing).
To me, that's like learning to play guitar against the radio (or cds, etc).
I'll only learn to play other people's music. While I can be very good at it, I feel like it's just copying someone else's style.
I guess that's still pretty good practice, but I wouldn't use that as my only tool. Time spent developing your own 'voice' or style, is very important.
I'd certainly direct someone that wanted to be a solid singer, to find a coach, or get the basic lessons from the internet, if possible. Discipline will pay off handsomely here, forcing yourself to control, to hit notes accurately, and relative pitch.
I'd think, the time spent practicing will develop you the most.
er, to add, i'd think alcohol would be the opposite to getting better. the one's i see sing well while drinking, usually already have a great voice, and it comes very easily to them. Most times, that's not the case =/.
ymmv, imho, etc.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Aug 17, 2007 10:53 am Do what guitar players do. Stack 82 processors between you and the audiance. Then just humm along, jump around a lot and look cool!
Aug 17, 2007 11:12 am Quote:
i'd think alcohol would be the opposite to getting better
That's why I suggested karaoke. No one in the crowd cares if you suck.
Forty, if you hang out in bars long enough and talk to people, eventually you'll find other drinkers that like to get together and jam drunk. There are plenty out there. I don't recommend looking for them at church, or other places where sober people hang out, as teetotalers tend to lose patience with inebriates pretty quickly. Hell, I don't know why I'm telling you this, because I'm sure you already know these things.
I'm pretty sure of one thing: If you learn something only while drunk, you'll never be able to do it sober.
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Aug 17, 2007 12:01 pm Is that you singing 'Airlock'?
Going through you're Songs i find some really cool stuff, I mean REALLY cool.
"Eggs for breakfast"
If you're singing then you don't have any problems mate.
Still, Can't argue with getting drunk!
Aug 17, 2007 05:18 pm haha bleak...the only song i'm singing on in my profile songs is 'airlock.' the other stuff is my joke band, and that's another guy singing in those.
but i feel pretty cocmfortable with my singing for my purposes. if billy corgan can call himself a singer, i can too. as long as im actually hitting the notes, i feel pretty good. what i would work on as a singer is phrasing and voice quality, and getting over stage fright. and the way i would get over stage fright includes three things: one, viewing the audience as my enemy. two, pretending the audience is in my house. three, pretending the audience isn't there at all. all of these tactics hhave worked well for me in the past, but it can still be nervewracking until the show is underway. then you just sort of get in a zone.
anyway, yeah, my post is not about learning to sing as much as it is getting to play with people and having them know, as they let me come over, that i'm probably not going to actually join the band. i want to sing at a few practices with a few bands, basically, with no commitment at all. if you say that in your ad, the responses are few or nonexistent. if you don't say it, you get people responding who say 'we're really dedicated.' (they think they're one lucky break away from being superstars. i would never want to be in a band that has that primary focus).
TallChapAnswer:On a good day, lipstick.Member
Since: Jun 24, 2004
Aug 17, 2007 06:58 pm I'd never call myself a singer. I've been thrown into singing on my recordings out of necessity. Strangely, I feel I keep getting better at it. I've been pulled in to do some singer/songwriter type gigs, and actually enjoyed myself once I got past the initial butterflies.
I say go for it.
Give it a try. Why not?
Do people hate your voice? Have they heard it? As you noted, there are a lot of really awful singers on the airwaves these days. It's not just punk anymore either!!
If you're writing good songs, people actually will associate with the song rather than the voice - Bob Dylan, Chris Kristofferson (Sp?), Neil Young, Willie Nelson, Kurt Cobain etc. Not a great voice among them, but some great songs and huge careers (well, one was kinda short). Anyway, the point is if Neil Young sells songs singing like he does, you really can't be worse.....
Plus, the more you sing the better you get.
I was never a big fan of Linkin Park, and I kind of hated the guys voice (the one who screams a lot). However, I was watching that big Green concert thingy recently and the quality of his singing voice (not the shouting, that still bothers me) was awesome. Must have taken some lessons. He's a great singer with a great voice now. He wasn't always.
Go for it. Good luck.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Aug 18, 2007 12:00 am forty, do what I did. Use a different name and pretend your someone else. I hated my voice and could just never sing as me. But sure enough, create a new persona and viola, there it was.
And yah, Airlock is one of my favorites. It reminds me of some cool late 60's early 70's stuff that a very few Minneapolis bands were doing back then. Trippy head rock.
Aug 18, 2007 12:42 am i wish i could finish a song. airlock was supposed to be kinda like the pixies mixed with radiohead, with a NIN-like riff and full stop right after the chrous. i started having doubts as to whether it was good, set it aside one day, and never got back to it :(
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Aug 18, 2007 12:46 am Personally, I just like that way it feels as is. Like a said, it has a sound to it that brings back some very cool memories for me.
Aug 18, 2007 06:06 am that's cool; i guess it hooks up to different things for different peeps maybe. that's cool. i've been told that chorus melody meanders too much, though, so that's something i may try to fix. i hate meandering melodies that go nowhere.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Aug 18, 2007 10:43 pm Although I do know exactly what you mean, I think in some music it seems to work out when that happens. I guess I may have been listening with a different ear then others as I didn't really here it that way. Or I simply liked it that way, but I find things like that kind of interesting in music. I know when doing some game music and such I found myself letting parts just wander aimlessly, and they ended up working.
Aug 19, 2007 05:59 am i dunno. i'm totally worried i might have a user illusion going on with my music. i never really feel certain that something is good.i feel like something's missing from my music, but i don;t know what it is. all i've ever really done is look at chords and melodies (took a long time). i believe there is some kind of 'musicality' --something not easily defined--missing from the stuff i write, and that it's this that prevents casual listeners from recognizing it as actual music. i dont think my song fragments are perceived as music by most people.
of course i also never, ever finish anything, and i've been told that's a factor, too.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Aug 19, 2007 12:48 pm Oh Forty,
Why don't you just continue to practice your art and learn something new every day and enjoy the journey. I just left a band that had grand illusions of adaquicy. Friut on the tree of stars ready to be picked. Armed with complements gathered no doubt by taking hostages with a constant barrage of requests for validation. The inner sanctum, the practice basement was used for the ritual of running through the 15 songs just waiting to pop to ensure they were ready for the event. I felt like I was on pot, in this little cult termed a 'family' by the others. Permiated with doing the same thing expecting different results, it became dark, stank, pit absent of the light of day. Cries of 'look at me', 'listen to me' shattered through the internet. Lyrics contained references to the 'victum' status that we must have been suffering.
Scary and pathetic.
Aug 19, 2007 12:58 pm Quote:
I just left a band that had grand illusions of adaquicy.
Walt, you crack me up, man.
I think I was in that band too.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Aug 19, 2007 01:03 pm Good to 'see' you Herb. I think it's a good experience for any musician, given they make it back :)
