Mics: Omni-directional vs. Uni-directional
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Posted on Aug 09, 2007 12:14 pm
Tomkat
Member Since: Jul 27, 2007
Hi everyone.
I'm in a bit of a dilemma, let me explain.
So far, I've recorded 2 songs...
"Sylvia's Mother" and "Bed Of Roses."
"Sylvia's Mother" was recorded using a Radio Shack mic which is dynamic and omni-directional.
"Bed of Roses" was recorded using a Shure SM-57 which is dynamic but uni-directional.
When recording "Sylvia's Mother," I just turned my head to the side on the power notes, and still got a nice smooth sound. (not bad, considering the mic)
I tried the same thing with the Shure mic on "Bed of Roses," but got a huge change in the frequency response and tone, I'm guessing because it's a uni-directional mic.
Overall, I know the Shure SM-57 is a better mic, but it's signal is almost "too hot" meaning I have trouble balancing out the soft and loud parts (distortion) when singing.
My question is this, would it be worth going back to the Radio Shack mic (for the dynamics) until I can get a Shure SM-58 (omni-directional)?
I'm really struggling with the SM-57, and I think "Sylvia's Mother" turned out ok, what do you think?
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pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Aug 09, 2007 01:48 pm I'd say yes, go with the one that suits you better.
The 57 may be 'better' but if it's not working with you as much, then it's not really 'better'.
Why get a sm58? are you hard pressed to get this? if you're going to be doing studio vocals, then why not a LDC (large diaphragm condenser). They offer up a airyness that dynamics usually don't have.
Plus, you can sing 2 feet away from the thing, and it'll pick up everything very nicely. No plosives, and you can move your head around, and it still sounds pretty close.
The 'Time in a Bottle' in my profile was recorded on a studio projects B3 (LDC), in uni mode, i think. But with a LDC, uni mode is still pretty omni. They're pretty cheap, and can be used on a bunch of things.
(thx for the props)
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Aug 09, 2007 01:49 pm and, you should fill in your profile, so we know what gear you're using. This will help us determine better advice / directions.
See mine below, and you'll see what I mean.
TomkatMember
Since: Jul 27, 2007
Aug 09, 2007 04:58 pm pjk,
I think a LDC mic might be overkill for my needs. Keep in mind that my "studio" is 1/2 a closet lined with blankets, so my acoustics aren't THAT good. Also, I'm not sure I want to spend quite that much money (unless you know of any good LDC mics in the $100 range). I'm not really hard pressed, but I'd like to have a decent mic of my own (the SM-57 is on loan) so that when I get the urge to record, I can hopefully do a decent job. I've heard good things about the SM-58, and they're not too expensive. I think that's about as "high-end" as I should go until I can make a better studio.
P.S. I updated my profile. ;-)
Aug 09, 2007 05:11 pm the 58 is not omni...
can you adjust your distortion level down so it's more in line with the non?
Aug 09, 2007 06:47 pm The 57 and 58 are basically the same mic. The 57 has a bit more presence at 6 kHz and is slightly more directional the the 58.
57's are great though. Try stepping back from the microphone on the loud passages and coming closer on the quiet.
The 'huge change in the frequency response and tone' you're experiencing is probably the result of 'the proximity effect. Basically, directional microphones exhibit an increase in bass response as the mic is brought closer to the sound source.
TomkatMember
Since: Jul 27, 2007
Aug 09, 2007 10:49 pm whosyourdaddy00,
The 58 is not omni-directional? I wasn't aware of that, as I was told by the buddy who loaned me the 57 that 58's were omni.
colonel_sanders,
I don't really have room to step back from the mic. I'm considering holding it instead of using a mic stand.
I have something else I want to try first, though... once I get a little better sound absorbtion in my "closet," I'm going to mount the mic up high in one of the corners, and instead of singing into the mic, I'm just gonna sing at the wall and let the mic pick up whatever. I've experimented with this already, and it sounds ok (no proximity effect), plus the differences in the dynamics are much less extreme.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Aug 10, 2007 08:49 am I just looked, and the Studio Projects B1 can be had for 119.
The B3 is 3 pattern, where the B1 is cardiod only, which is probably most of what you'll use anyway.
Worth a look, if you're going to be doing a lot of vocals.
I don't even have any 58s. I have 2 57, because I may / will be tracking drums at some point. I tried a 57 tracking a male voice lately, and wasn't as happy as with my SP C1.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Aug 10, 2007 08:52 am Oh yeah, you'd need phantom power for a condenser mic. so that may be an issue too =).
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Aug 10, 2007 09:31 am I think there is some confusion here about omni vs uni... An omni picks up signal from all directions while an uni picks up from only one direction. Omni mics are usually pretty rough to use in a studio situation per the noises and sound reflections they will pick up that are usualy not wanted. I think what you are experiencing is impediance matching. Your Rad-Shack mic is probably a better electrical match to the system you are using than the Shure.
TomkatMember
Since: Jul 27, 2007
Aug 10, 2007 10:13 am I'll check the impedance of my mics and my mixing board tonight. I'll also check to see if the mixer provides phantom power. (the mic input is XLR balanced, so it may)
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Aug 10, 2007 07:34 pm One thing to try with the 57 is instead of turning your head simply back away a bit to smooth it, but keep it pointed directly at your mouth.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Aug 12, 2007 09:43 am Tomcat,
I appologize, I was in a bit of a hurry and misinterprated part of your post. There are limits to the latitude you have regarding dynamics. As everybody has infered, you are working with a better quality mic with the Shure and they take a little getting used to. Like Noise mentions, you will need to learn how to 'work' the mic. Get right on-top the thing and you can increase bass response, sing close and it will provide good detail, pull back, not changing direction and your intonation will infer loudness in the recording without driving the mic into distortion. The next step in the progression up the mic food chain is the large diaphram condenser. With that you will most likely need to really watch background noise and room acoustics because they will pick up mouse farts at thirty yards.
TomkatMember
Since: Jul 27, 2007
Aug 14, 2007 11:18 am Well, it turns out that my Radio Shack mic is uni-directional, after all. The "drop off" when I turn my head just isn't as noticeable, because it's frequency response isn't that good to begin with. So, it looks like I'll be sticking with the SM57, for now.
I still need to dig out the owner's manual for my DOD mixer, so I can check on the ohms and phantom power for the mic channel, since I'll need phantom power if I ever want to get a condenser mic.
I also really need to get some good foam for my "closet," because on certain loud notes, I think I'm getting resonance, which is causing the note to sound squashed, even when I'm not clipping the line signal to my computer. In other words, the volume I'm singing is too loud for the mic, but the channel volume is turned down low enough that I'm not clipping the signal going into the computer. (exceeding the mics SPL limit, but not the signal input's?) Is this possible?
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Aug 14, 2007 11:26 am sure its possible, specially with a RS cheapo. It could be distorting with anything over a med loud voice.
probably not what you wanted to hear, but I'd not trust it for long, if you can work out something better =).
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Aug 14, 2007 11:28 am Yes it is totally possible to overdrive the mic. Different mics are better suited for high spl's (even though vocals aren't really high spl's). The B1 that pjk mentions is a high spl mic. So is the 57 and I would say you would have a pretty hard time overdriving either of those mics with vocals. A pop filter may help with the overdriving on you Radio Shack mic. It could be as simple as your breath is moving the diaphram in the mic.
TomkatMember
Since: Jul 27, 2007
Aug 14, 2007 11:38 am Yea, I've ruled out the Radio Shack mic for any future recording.
However, I do occasionally get a "squashed" note with the SM57 as well, could that be due to resonance? (keep in mind I'm recording in a pretty small space)
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Aug 14, 2007 11:40 am And just for the record, there are several LDC mics to choose from around the $100 mark. MXL, CAD, SP, AKG all make pretty decent entry-level large and medium diaphragm condensors.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Aug 14, 2007 12:06 pm Yeah, what Tad said, more choices =).
You can get a phasing issue with a small space, or comb filtering, or just plain muddiness due to resonance, like you mentioned. You could be getting a certain freq that will bounce back a lot of signal, based on your surroundings.
I use packing blankets, hung by the edge of the wall, in a few spots. Works great.
McMerkinHobbyist musician,pro recorderMember
Since: May 15, 2007
Aug 15, 2007 01:02 am Guitar Center is currently selling TWO MXL Studio LDC mics for 79.99 after rebate. I believe it's just for the month of August (2007), though they have had these on sale before.
I myself am lusting after them, but I simply don't even have the 80 dollars to do it, arg.
My brother bought this pair around last Xmas when they were on sale, and has sent me a few recordings, nice warm sound, best vocals he has come up with yet (he used to use dynamic mics).
TomkatMember
Since: Jul 27, 2007
Aug 15, 2007 09:55 am McMerkin,
I visited Guitar Center's site, and I found ONE MXL Studio LDC mic for $79.99, but I didn't see the "TWO for ONE" special you were referring to, did I miss something?
**EDIT**
Nvm, found it..
MXL 990/MXL 991 Recording Microphone Package
2 different mics, interesting.
McMerkinHobbyist musician,pro recorderMember
Since: May 15, 2007
Aug 15, 2007 10:46 am Actually I misspoke. One is the large diagphram, the other small. Both good mics for many applications.
TomkatMember
Since: Jul 27, 2007
Aug 16, 2007 12:12 am Just found out my DOD mixer does not have phantom power in the mic output, so that kinda kills the condensor mic idea for now, bummer.
TomkatMember
Since: Jul 27, 2007
Aug 17, 2007 01:09 pm and for only $19.99, very cool, definitely an option, thanks for the info!
