We're Champion Potheads
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Posted on Jul 10, 2007 10:51 am
BeerHunter
www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member Since: Feb 07, 2005
Canada is doing its part to be Super "bowl" champions.
www.canada.com/theprovinc...5e-6b90c1656b66
Published: Tuesday, July 10, 2007
OTTAWA -- Marijuana use in Canada is the highest in the industrialized world, far higher than in the Netherlands where it's legal, and more than four times the global rate, a report by the United Nations has found.
The report also says cannabis use around the world appears to have stabilized and appears to be declining in North America.
The world drug-use study by the UN Office on Drugs and Crime said that 16.8 per cent of Canadians aged 15 to 64 smoked marijuana or used other cannabis products in 2004, the most recent year for which statistics were cited.
Marijuana possession remains illegal in Canada, despite years of recommendations by parliamentarians to decriminalize it.
The study estimated that 3.8 per cent of the world's population aged 15 to 64 used cannabis in 2005. That was about 159 million people, down slightly from 162 million the previous year.
The data show Canadian usage fifth after Zambia (17.7 per cent in 2003), Ghana (21.5 per cent in 1998) and Papua New Guinea and Micronesia tied for first place at 29 per cent each in 1995.
The Canadian statistics compared to 2005 rates of 8.7 per cent in England and Wales, 12.6 per cent in the U.S., 8.5 per cent in Israel and 6.1 per cent in the Netherlands (2001), where it is legal to buy pot for personal use.
In some countries in East and Southeast Asia, such as Korea and Singapore, and in the Middle East, such as Oman and Qatar, cannabis use is negligible.
The report said cannabis comprises, by far, the largest illicit drug market on the planet.
The study also noted a 38-per-cent decline in cannabis use among U.S. 12th graders between 1979, when marijuana use peaked, and 2006. A 19-per-cent drop in use by Ontario high school students between 2003 and 2005 was also noted.
The report also said there was slightly less trafficking of cannabis from Canada into the U.S. in 2005.
Forty per cent of Canadian cannabis is produced in B.C., the report noted
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Jul 10, 2007 10:55 am Well, congrats!
While the pot laws are incredibly stupid and a waste of resources, I can't help but wonder how they know all this stuff, yet can't stop it.
They know trafficking went down...well, if they know that they must be watching something to give them that data...why not bust it then?
Weird.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jul 10, 2007 11:17 am We have a bit of a problem where people don't know the laws. Many tourists think it is legal here. If it were legal then organised crime wouldn't have so much power.
They mention BC as being number one in Canada so basically what they are saying is that where I live its number 1 in the world.
Am I proud of this? No.
However, IMO keeping it underground just increases violent crime.
Here's a different "positive" regarding crime around here. Car theft is down 47%. I'm sure this is partly due to the "bait car" program that we have as well as built-in anti-theft devices that are in most cars now. None the less, it is a huge reduction and is very encouraging.
Jul 10, 2007 11:20 am Quote:
If it were legal then organised crime wouldn't have so much power.
That's often been my rational for legalization as well, but I dunno how true it actually is tho, since there is a MUCH higher profit margin in the harder drugs...pot may be the largest drug being smuggled, but I will lay money it's not even close to the most money...nor does it promote the most violence.
With cola, crack, meth and the like comes HUGE profit margins, especially as it trickles thru hands, gets diluted/cut and gets down to the junkies of the crowd...
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jul 10, 2007 11:35 am What is cola? Coke??
My understanding is that pot is being traded for coke straight across.
It is a huge problem around here. Grow ops are all over the place.
You're probably right about the legalization though. It may not be effective at all.
I have been to the Netherlands a few times now and it is legal there. On the surface they seem to have their **** together. Any place where the cops don't carry guns must be doing something right.
Jul 10, 2007 11:43 am Oh, sorry, yeah, Cocaine...I guess I slipped into old lingo for a minute there...
It's been years since I was involved at all, so my assumptions and opinions may be long outdated, but as I recall from my days in the biz pot was a hassle, takes up too much room, to hard to conceal and smuggle due to that size, odor and such...whereas the others I mentioned were much easier to deal with and get much more ROI.
I don't know if it would be effective in terms of giving crime less power to any noticeable level but what I do know is that any power taken is good. It would also allow gov't to make insane money on selling pot itself, taxing and **** out of it and use that money to fight the trafficking of drugs that actually kill people...
The US has a violence problem and a drug problem, no denying that, I can't speak for Canada as I have only visited (and discussed moving there with the wife a couple times) but I think the problem runs much deeper than a simple drug thing, the bigger part in my personal opinion is a complete dissolution of the family unit, lack of personal responsibility being taught to kids in favor of teaching them what their "rights" are therefore never having to accept the consequences of their actions. Drugs certainly don't help though...
Can't wait for WYD to chime in on this...
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Jul 10, 2007 12:21 pm In Canada they have somewhat of a unique problem, and that is the scarce population density of provinces like British Columbia. There is so much wilderness that law enforcement has little chance of spotting even the largest growing operations. Its the proverbial needle in a haystack. Or more like a needle in a stack of needles.
There is a similar situation in northern California. The mountains there are full of grow operations but the land is so trecherous and there is so much of it that you can't really stand a chance of catching anybody growing.
Personally I dont care if its legal or not...my access to pot wouldn't change. But I sure do wish that employers would stop wasting money screening for it. The crack heads and heroin junkies will screen themselves out. The pot heads can at least live a normal, civilized life will little or no impact to their productivity. And the ones that cant...well, they'll screen themselves out of the employment picture as well.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jul 10, 2007 12:39 pm The problem is definately not because of pot being grown outdoors. Nobody does that anymore. People around here are buying $1 million homes and gutting out the inside just to grow pot. These homes can be in premium upscale neighborhoods. They are everywhere. BC Bud is known around the world as "Northern Lights" and has a reputation as being the best in the world. (dB, please delete this photo if it violates the TOS. I hesitated to post it)
Every night there are helicopters flying around with infrared scanners looking for grow ops. In on case and entire subdivision of townhomes was a grow op. Approx 20 of the 24 units!
The biggest problem is that these grow ops are stealing power by bypassing meters. This is a big fire danger.
Jul 10, 2007 12:47 pm We just had that happen in a neighboring city, a nice upper-middle class 'hood had a house busted that was nothing but a farm...
MN and Canadian climates definitely make growing outdoors a bit more seasonal, it's all hydroponics around here. I remember one time walking back to jail after a day at work (Huber Law Work Release sentence) I saw in the garage I was walking by two massive hydro system that must have just be confiscated from somebody...bummer for them.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Jul 10, 2007 01:59 pm Lots of people still grow outdoors. Free sunlight and water!
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Jul 10, 2007 02:02 pm here in columbus the grow ops that I've ran into were in commercial buildings. But, regarding the supposed 'decline in use' my guess is that the boom in growing was with highschoolers in the mid to late 90's who made everything hydroponic and moved it indoors. Then of course you get a shitload of suburban kids having their first unfriendly run in with the local mafia/gang/whatever and they just close up shop and hide. Thats what happened to one of my old friends. He had a small $30K a month operation in a commercial warehouse, they get hit and one of the guys is shot in the face... and they all just walk away quickly.
But these studies are always pretty funny. See, I ran part of a highschool drug survey back in 97. They get most of their information because kids will just tell you.
but these studies always come out so bad that they're weighted.
Quote:
UN Office on Drugs and Crime said that 16.8 per cent of Canadians aged 15 to 64 smoked marijuana or used other cannabis products in 2004
16% of Canadians use drugs then? well... That would be amazing if it applied to the 17-20 demographic... my study in 1997 put highschool senior drug use at around 60%-90% depending on the wealth of the school 90% was the private school. see, To get the low numbers they add senior citizens... or usually what you hear is groupings of middleschoolers and highschoolers... maybe on average 10% of middleschoolers use drugs but it really offsets the senior class and makes the entire score look a lot better.
Administrators learned already they can't deal with this without freaking out the parents. So they spend their time fiddeling with numbers so the problems don't seem as bad.
Jul 10, 2007 02:05 pm Quote:
So they spend their time fiddeling with numbers so the problems don't seem as bad.
No?! Tell me it isn't so.
I refuse to believe our authorities would lie to us!
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jul 10, 2007 03:47 pm There was a big article in Maxim a year ago or so, detailing the grow ops in Kentucky. They were saying that the KY Pot was one of the best in the world. They were following the outdoor ops, saying like Tad mentioned, lot of woods, and few over-see-ers to find them and bust them.
It's gotta correlate, I'd think:
financially depressed area = more people growing to feed their family
and:
financially depressed area = fewer, less trained police force, to be able to find and bust them.
I'm kinda leaning to the legalize it side. Our govn'ment spends tons of $$$ trying to bust, but it doesn't do much to change any of it. Spend the $$$ on awarness programs, and finding more dangerous drug ops.
Plus, I've heard it many times, that underage kids can find illegal drugs easier than they can find alcohol. I think legalizing green would make it more difficult for underage kids to get their hands on it (IMHO).
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
Jul 10, 2007 06:05 pm wow I always heard and thought that marijuana was legal in canada. Learn something new everyday. Good thing I found out about this Before I went to canada, or I would have been in some trouble.
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
Jul 10, 2007 06:06 pm Oh, and as far as why it's illegal: (personal theory, take it as you will)
Marijuana can be used, amongst other things, as a renewable source of energy, and the big business doesn't like that. Also, it was outlawed after a ton of horrible propaganda in an effort to kick illegal immigrants out of california (that part is fact).
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jul 10, 2007 06:11 pm Sort of like this Loki...
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
Jul 10, 2007 06:16 pm yep, proaganda just like that.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jul 10, 2007 06:30 pm While it is illegal in Canada to sell/possess pot, there are a couple of coffee shops in Vancouver that allow/promote pot consumption. You can't smoke it though, it has to be ingested or vaporised. Smoking (anything) inside a public establishment is illegal.
However, the small town of Nelson where I used to live has an arrangement (whatever that means) where they have a coffee shop just like in Amsterdam. You cannot smoke cigarettes there only pot. And you have to buy something like a coffee or a coke. It is a very unique situation however.
...and yes more pictures. This one is of the coffee shop mentioned above.
Jul 10, 2007 06:48 pm Yeah, some local and state gov't in the US have buffed themselves up real big and passed pot laws to legalize it and whatnot thinkin they were being so cool...
...then the feds came in and busted people instead of local yokales...state law don't matter if there is still federal one. :-)
Funny, AdSense must have already sniffed this page...it's all pot and drug ads ROFLMAO
Jul 10, 2007 06:51 pm Wait till the Net Authority gets a whiff of the site NOW! That's damn funny.
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
Jul 10, 2007 07:04 pm Do these pics and maybe this topic need to go dB?
Jul 10, 2007 07:06 pm It's not like anyone is condoning it...but good lookin out.
Of course, WYD hasn't been here yet. :-D
Pot is good for lots of stuff, but the renewable source of energy I don't buy...just loking back a couple posts. It's good for paper, cloth and loads of other stuff...but power...eh, I don't think so.
Jul 10, 2007 07:22 pm yeah, to me it's a total irrational criminalization of "all of the major chemical components of cannabis" a plant. that's like sayin' god f'ed up.
it was the irrational fear of something people didn't understand (at the time) and therefore they said 'get rid of it'....instead of saying 'what is this?'. alcohol, tobacco, AND pharmaceutical company's thrived and paid BUT LOADS of taxes, kickbacks, and general lobbying to keep it illegal. i don't think weed will be decriminalized in my lifetime in USA, land of the free. there's simply too much money making the decisions, which leads to loss of objectivity. not to mention the government HATES admitting it was wrong.
Schedule 1 law says it is illegal to transport, manufacture (grow), posses, or distribute drugs in this category.
drugs that fall into this catagory must have these characteristic Quote:
The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States.[/quote] not that say apatite stimulant, glaucoma relief, mood enhancer arn't possible positive uses. [quote]schedule 1 drugs must have a high potential for abuse, wait a sec....what's 'abuse'?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_abuse
ok there are several definitions....ahh gotta love vagueness in laws, that's how the lawyers make their chingy. but i digress...
another requisite for schedule 1 drugs is Quote:
There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision.
NO THAT'S JUST LAUGHABLE!!! HAHHAAHAHAHHA!
ok ok ok so i just laid out our silly law on this specific plant.....so how does tobacco get away with this, it's ONLY medical purpose that i can think of is as a mild stimulant at best, what kind of doctors are saying tobacco has any currently accepted medical uses?
does tobacco have a high potential for abuse....umm if you go by any definition that you use for cannabis then that's a big YES.
same can be said for alcohol, only it has a few more medicinal uses (pain relief, depressant, ect.)
but enough of the legal talk, lets get down to brass tax...
oh, **** tax! yeah we have a special tax for alcohol, tobacco, and for all i know condoms called 'sin tax'....this is a special tax that these things get that go strait to the government for 'proper appropriation' by our elected officials...words like, children, schools, and community just start oozing out of their mouths like drool from the dollar signs rolling in their eyes.
meth is bad out here in the sticks....i've known several ppl that got caught up in that stuff and i got to watch them age years to my months....not to mention the 'permanent bad luck' that seems to come with it. dirty dirty stuff and i'm proud to say i've never nor will i ever try it...so lets discuss the 'gateway theory'.
yes i will admit my drug use started early, at the ripe age of 12 or so i picked up my first cigarette butt out of my mom's ash tray. by 14 i was steeling them from stores...hell i couldn't buy them. i got drunk for the first time when i was 15.....ahhh....i knew beer was for me, even back then. i used to jokingly say 'i look forward to alcoholism'....now...yeah...uhhh...it's great...
i was very anti-drug and very outspoken about my opinions through highschool (go figure)....my little brother kept hangin' with idiots and gettin' himself busted while i wore the halo....i tried weed a few times but didn't 'get it'...until i was 21....for some reason, i'd get all drunk and say 'pass that ****!'....next thing you know, i get into X, acid, and shrooms....those were special occasions that really wern't any kinda 'problem' in that sense.
i didn't try coke until i was like 25 or something and really, it just wasn't for me....i like to be mind fudged...not all tweeked....just not my buzz...although i can sometimes justify if i've had way too much to drink and need to sober up. that it seems to do well.
anyway enough of my history, the 'gateway' theory only works backwards....nobody just wakes up one day and say 'hey, i think i'll try heroin today'...that's just absurd.
gah...phone call brb
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jul 10, 2007 08:02 pm Just an FYI, none of the pictures were taken regarding illegal activity. It was/is still legal at the time. Amsterdam was a very large city that I actually felt safe in even with their liberal laws.
I'm not condoning the use of drugs at all. In fact I know very well the consequences associated with drug use. That being said, alcohol is the biggest problem IMO around here.
It also was a big part of assisting my wife through chemo. Anytime a law interferes with a person's well being then something is wrong.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jul 10, 2007 10:09 pm the missus' brother has lupus. he can get perscription mary jane whenever he wants, but he doesn't like it now. dopes him up, and can't get anything done.
Although it does push down his symptoms for awhile.
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jul 11, 2007 12:02 am Smoking pot elimates nausea but you don't smoke it to get high. Just one hit. If you get too high then it doesn't do anything but make it worse. There is a designated (off the record) area at the Cancer Agency that patients can go to smoke.
Without a doubt there is a lot of use for marijuana if they (politicions) would just get some balls and do something about it. A lot of the resistance to legalise is coming from the US. If we legalise then it sends a bad message about the war on drugs. At least that is my take on the whole thing.
Personally I just view it the same as alcohol. That is don't smoke and drive. No minors. Licensed premises. It is a pretty different environment in Amsterdam. A typical day isn't about a bunch of head cases hanging out at a coffee shop. It's more like.. on your way home from work (walking) you drop into a coffee shop. They have a large "menu" and you select your flavour of the day. There is no reason to possess a large amount of pot there because its available everywhere. Holland has strict laws once you excede 4 plants (if you grow your own). Basically the intent is that small qtys is just like alcohol but if your have too much they come down hard (they don't want to miss out on their tax dollars...ahh, Euros.
The porn in Amsterdam is way out of control though. I won't take my kids there, not because of the pot but because of the porn. To me, the politicians (in Canada too) should be focusing on child porn instead of pot but that is a whole nother discussion.
...hows that for a long winded post - haha. Not often that I expose my political side.
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
Jul 11, 2007 12:56 am yeah I'm zipping my mouth hardcore on this one. Last thing you want is me to go off about my stance on the matter.
Jul 11, 2007 04:24 am damn i missed it by 4 mins!
Jul 11, 2007 06:37 am Quote:
The porn in Amsterdam is way out of control though.
I have never been there, but have had some freinds there, and they bring back stuff and pictures of the area that, well...I mean I like to see a good lookin naked body as much as the next guy, but how some people get off on what they do, I just don't understand...
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
Jul 11, 2007 07:21 am some of it makes sense, some of it is obviously signs of various neurosis and complexes
Jul 11, 2007 07:37 am oh sure, some of it I get, but some is just
::shudder::
I dunno, man, some I just don't get...
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jul 11, 2007 09:08 am My stance is from a personal perspective only. I guess the reality is that the 'illegal' aspect of the substance was the origion of my issues with it. On one visit to a new (to me) distrubitor I had a 357 pulled on me. Not the average trip to the beer mart, or well, maybe today. The next major strike was the bag laced with PCP. That triggered the 'flush' that ended the relationship so to speak.
Having said that, it's been 30 years and I don't miss my old friend at all.
Jul 11, 2007 09:15 am That's another thing I never got...I mean, I smoked daily (hell, hourly) for year and years...but the "lacing" of it without telling the person I don't get...I mean as a joke or whatever I understand, but as a distributor, I would think you would want to mention it and charge more...
I never did PCP, Heroine or any shot up type stuff...never stuck a needle in so I can't speak to that taste...
Also, I remember a few times during dry spells in the market, that some people dipped their doobs in formaldehyde...I mean, wow...that's pretty hardcore to get a buzz on. Supposedly it's a hell of a buzz, but still, ain't that embalming fluid?
There is no end to what some folks will do.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jul 11, 2007 09:54 am Ya, your right dB. Thinking about it, legal doesn't always make a difference. Hell they just executed one in China. Sick crap.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Jul 11, 2007 10:04 am Aah, the Sherman Stick. I never understod that one...that would have to taste like total ***!
BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Jul 11, 2007 11:38 am Here's an interesting bit of statistics taken from the war on drugs website. Kind of says a lot.
Annual Causes of Death in the United States (Year 2000)
Tobacco 435,000
Poor Diet and Physical Inactivity 365,000
Alcohol 85,000
Microbial Agents 75,000
Toxic Agents 55,000
Motor Vehicle Crashes 26,347
Adverse Reactions to Prescription Drugs 32,000
Suicide 30,622
Incidents Involving Firearms 29,000
Homicide 20,308
Sexual Behaviors 20,000
All Illicit Drug Use, Direct and Indirect 17,000
Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs Such As Aspirin 7,600
Marijuana 0
Jul 11, 2007 11:41 am O.D. on pot and you just go to sleep...ya don't die.
The cancer that you can get from it though...well, you know...
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Jul 13, 2007 11:13 am I need something that makes me do MORE things, not less. Hence: caffine!
Jul 13, 2007 11:20 am i think caffine is on the road to becomming the next nicotine...i bet it gets the hate treatment in the next 20 years.
flame...bringing sexy backMember
Since: Jul 01, 2002
Jul 13, 2007 11:53 am yeah, wouldnt surprise me. i'm sure theres plenty of ways to be discovered that make it just as bad as cigarettes
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
Jul 13, 2007 12:20 pm i just started dipping my cigarettes in mountain dew. Kill two birds (and lungs) with one stone...
Jul 14, 2007 10:05 am loki-are you for real? i'm gullible as hell, so just tell me the truth. and if you have actually done that, does it taste any good? i love cigs and dew.
as to the main tenet of this thread (i have now positioned myself to up close and personal w/the keyboard, for seriousness), i have some pretty strong opinions. i've had a few different people say they imagine me as an old woman smoking j after j in my rocking chair on the porch of a cabin in the Appalachian mountains. as a victim of alcoholism, i feel i can say that at least in this instance, the legal drug is far worse than the illegal one. my son's father essentially left his son, me, and everything else for alcohol. left us homeless, as a matter of fact. i was a big stoner the entire time, but somehow i held down the fort. alcohol can change you into a different person. pot just makes you lazy, but you still do what you have to do, in my experience. i've reached the point in my life where that may not be enough, so i am thinking of cutting down or quitting at the moment. but not because i believe the plant is bad for me. more because i don't feel it's working for me any longer, and that's the point where you should walk away.
as to the memory effects, i've tried to smoke away a lot of pain, and i still remember all of it. in fact, if one was to ask my friends or co-workers, they'd most likely say i have the best memory of anyone they know.
the possibility for cancer has not been proven to my knowledge, but i'll agree that any smokeable in excess can lead to emphysema. i smoke cigarettes as well, so i would not be an appropriate case study in this matter.
more than any other drug, i believe the criminalization of pot was about money and influence. i've never been inclined to do the research, but the logic pans out from what i know of history. the federal government makes a lot of money from the war on drugs or they wouldn't still perpetuate it. currently the war seems rather focused on the ganja. i guess when you're afraid of terrorism, or, more importantly, people really asking questions about your war, you really don't want any mind expanding, or at least, rebellious drugs mucking about. it was outlawed in a massive slander campaign for similar reasons, i'm sure.
anywho, enough of my long *** rant. i've been waiting to have enough time to respond to this thread for most of the week, cause during the week most of my web time is at work, where i'm honestly too fricking busy most days to write anything of substance.
peace.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jul 14, 2007 11:43 pm Loki, let me know if that works. I'd be dipping mine in Coca-Cola then for sure.
On the caffeine thing, they damn well better not. I love my Coca-Cola way to much, if that becomes illegal then I will become a criminal. :-)
On the Pot thing, I best not go there at the moment as it is an irritating subject in this house at the moment. Lots O trouble being caused by it at the moment.
And no, its not me smoking it!
Jul 15, 2007 07:57 am My mum said that her friend came home to find her son and his mates sitting around smoking 'some can-a-piss' Yuk!
LokiCone PokerMember
Since: Apr 07, 2002
Jul 16, 2007 11:33 am hahaha that was sarcasm guys. I'm pretty sure that dipping a cigarette in any liquid will render that cigarette unsmokeable. However... I am feeling adventurous. Time to go procure a mountain dew!
