friends in hell....
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Posted on Nov 01, 2006 03:36 pm
whosyourdaddy00
Hold 'Em Czar
Member Since: Dec 30, 2004
my bud who's on tour called me from Dimebag's grave yesterday and he said "rest in peace"...
this got me thinking, if there is a hell, i'm sure he's prolly gonna be there...then i got to thinkin' does anyone know a friend or family member who you are sure is burning in hell?
it's always some far fetched child rapist or what not, but say me for instance, by most standards, i'm gonna go to hell, so when i die, my friends CAN'T say 'rest in peace chris' because i will be buzy burning.
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pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Nov 01, 2006 03:50 pm this treads on the 'religion' lines again, doesn't it?
I thought you were athiest.
If that's so, then what's the problem? =)
Just yanking yer chain.
I don't think there's a hell like what's found in some orthodox religion's doctrines.
But that's me.
There was a neat buddhist snippet about a monk, a samarai, and hell. I'll look for it.
* edit * i can't find it, oh well.
Nov 01, 2006 03:58 pm So, you are sure some dude is somewhere that you are also sure doesn't exist?
While I do find this an interesting question, I think the most interesting part to me is the person posing it.
Yeah, I have a couple friends down there, one is buried a few plots down from where we buried my mom a few months back...my mom, on the other hand is happily prancing around heaven.
Nov 01, 2006 04:09 pm word, yeah i don't believe, but i was tossing the concept of 'my friend is in hell' in my head, and i wanted to hear a theists perspective...strange stuff to say indeed.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Nov 01, 2006 04:19 pm my .02:
no real place, but there are conditions one imposes on themselves, karma, if you will, that dictates how their afterlife will unfold.
So, in my perspective, I wouldn't say 'Serves ya right' to someone who's passed on and starts getting difficult situations (hell-like, you might say). I'd offer a blessing, and leave it at that.
This also goes along with my belief that nobody is outside of compassion from upstairs (to coin a phrase). I think that there's divine in everything, so anyone can change and go back towards the divine.
Conversely, someone that's lived a good life, they're that much closer to the divine already, so their progression is that much more advanced.
like I said, this is my .02, it works for me.
HuePinnipedal Czar (: 3= Member
Since: Apr 11, 2004
Nov 01, 2006 04:30 pm LIES !
I can totally understand why WYD would ask a question like this . Of course this is merely speculation, but...
An intelligent person who is raised in a religious enviornment at least to the point of being "aware of the choices being made by oneself with reguard to their fate in the afterlife", and then conciously chooses to live their life through the eyes of an atheist has found themselves asking questions that even athiests ask when they believe they are selling themselves short in one area of their life, or another .(selling short, as in not being a good person... tisk, tisk.)
My clarifying question: What have you done Christopher ? I am intrigued as to what makes you think that you could possibly be a better WYD than the one you are now ? Also, let me say that whatever that may be, I hope you had fun doing it because you're going to HELL for it .
BWAhahahahaaaa....
Y'a been wearing the clown suit again ?!
Nov 01, 2006 04:53 pm lol, nah...buy most standards the simple fact that i denounce any form of god, is a sure ticket to an eternity of pain and torture...sure i'm a good guy, and i totaly believe good things happen to good people, but i don't feel i have to be, kinda like the way some people threaten hell as some twisted form of punishment for choices they made here in this planet....this 'fear' that is instilled often at a young and impressionable age is more than enough for most people to convince them to 'do the right thing'.....i don't think there is a hell or heaven, or anyform of afterlife (atleast in anykinda concious form)....but i've been told/warned many times over, that's a deal breaker in the eyes of the all loving God, most people have come to know and love.
i can't phathom how such a loving god can condemn (sp?) silly 'ole me...i feel i lead a more or less good and positive existance...i don't spread much negativity to others, i'm not spitefull, or hatefull of anyone or anything....every day IS a blessing in my blink-of-an-eye-existance, and i intend to enjoy as much of it as i can....in other words, i ain't got no time for negativity.
back to the point of the thread, i've never once heard anybody say the knew someone that they believe in are in hell....it's always resting in peace, or up in heaven etc...the simple thought of 'man i miss jamie, too bad he's burning in hell for eternity' just sounds so strange to me.
and i figured while, tensions are high, i'd bring it up here! hehe evil i am!
i don't feel i've done anything to derserve such a terrible thing as hell, although i am a simi-pro multi-sinner (to myself not others, well usually) and i've never once repented to god or myself, because frankly i don't feel a need to, i choose my sins wisely (if that's possible) and never inflict negitivity on other living things. but i have had plenty of sex outta wedlock, i've got a few tatoos, i drink like a fish, and once i had my neighbors wife, j/k! the biggest no-no i hear from most christians is that i say to myself and others is that i don't believe in God.....boy he must take it personally.
Nov 01, 2006 04:57 pm In the words of Jerry Garcia:
"I may be going to hell in a bucket, but at least I'm enjoying the ride."
Yeah, it's not comforting to say "yeah, he's in hell", and certainly I am nobody to judge where a persons soul goes, but, based on my beliefs, and as WYD stated, not believing in God is really the only issue at stake when it comes to eternal life or eternal damnation.
Nov 01, 2006 07:48 pm It's the anti-Catch-22. You don't believe in God, and you can't understand how He can condemn those that don't believe in Him. If you don't believe in Him, then there's nothing to worry about. And if you do worry about it, then there must be at least a shred of belief.
But that wasn't really your original question, was it? I have a friend who it a professed non-believer, but is one of the most "Christian-like" people I know. (That's not to say he is without sin...)
I don't believe that he will rot in Hell.
Nov 01, 2006 07:51 pm "By grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast". - Ephesians 2:8
Nov 01, 2006 07:55 pm Exactly, and WHO is blessed by said grace is up to God...he has his reasons. I don't think that any one sin is "the deal-breaker". That's part of the mystery.
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Nov 01, 2006 08:04 pm I sorta lump this in with creation discussions...ie, "generally it's not my place to know for sure"
As a christian, I believe there is a hell. to me hell isn't a 'place', it's a state of existance being seperated from God. we do a lot of evil things but we cannot be seperated totally from God in our life... It's odd to say this but for example, sex is a good thing, it feels good, etc., and thats proof of it's connection with God. Hell is when there is _no_ good in anything. There was a saint's vita (life story) where a female saint gets shot with an arrow by an angel and orgasms... that is an example of heaven. :)
Now, can I say for certian that someone is seperated 100% from God? No. I known some shitty people... including a child rapist & murderer... but as a christian I believe that they are redeemable.
Now for some reason there's the 'What about Ghandi" arguement that skips a basic taching of most orthodox and protestant theology. Christ died before he resurrected. So becoase christ had not defeated death and opened heaven christ first went to 'hell' with everyone else. However, heaven and hell are consitered timeless so everyone arrives in hell at the same 'time' essentially no matter when they die. the assumption is that christ then offeres the same salvation to those in/ or entering hell as he did to us.
But the standard of god is perfect... thats what christ was. Christ is the one that vouches for us so we don't have to be perfect... and if we don't have to be perffect then there's really no reason that we have to necessicarially be "good." But we have to 'repent' So if a repentant person goes to heaven when they die and salvation is offered to the dead, it can be assumed that the dead who repent then go to heaven...
Now if I can ramble on a bit further (possibly horribly inaccuratly nased on my recient over exposure to varnish and exhaustion :) ) In revelations there is whats called the Book of Life. If your name is in it you get saved if not then no. Now, what the hell is in that book and how do you get your name in it? Christian believe our faith in christ puts us there... and "nobody gets to the father except though him. etc." but, it's often termed "experiencing christ' when doing something resoundingly 'good' not exactly 'big' but pure. A nun working with mother teresa is reportly to have cried to her that she just washed christ when she bathed a beggar/untouchable/'dirt *** po guy' ... so then I would suppose an arguement for if you do something pure then you experience 'christ' first hand and have that as a connection to God and therefor your name in the Book of Life... then it would need to be determined, what would have to be done? well... it's not what it's why. Helping the poor is a good thing, with a reward such as heaven the basis becomes getting the reward (greed) and not just doing the right thing.
SO... it could be that somone who, even though they do a lot of bad things, gets one thing right imprints their 'name' in the Book of Life. It could then be assumes that (for consistancy) people who get one thing right in their life repent and accept christ after the fact because they still were connected to God.
THEN... what about people who get nothing right... I think we would be hard pressed to find anyone who has done nothing right in their entire life and therefore closed off to repenting.
Nov 01, 2006 08:48 pm hmm interesting...
Quote:
You don't believe in God, and you can't understand how He can condemn those that don't believe in Him. If you don't believe in Him, then there's nothing to worry about. And if you do worry about it, then there must be at least a shred of belief.
i am able to sep outside my personal beliefs and play with concepts, which is all i see religons as, concepts...i whole heartedly do not believe in anykind of afterlife, and really think religion has served it's purpose in humanity's timeline....but at the same time i can put myself in the mind of a beLIEver and muck around a bit....i would think most anyone could.
just because i'm able to say "what if?" has nothing to do with "what i think is"....hell, i can put myself inside of a murder's mind and play out the most brutal murder in my head....does this mean i can actually do it? i don't think so, but i can play with the concept, for my own personal entertainment or whatnot.
i totally get what zek said about beeing seperated from God, that makes sense to me....well, kinda. i guess i would be considered seperated from God, but this dosn't feel anything like a hell to me...or is it? hmmm
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Nov 01, 2006 09:04 pm well you're not seperated from god, because you experience good things... not meaning good things like 'warm fuzzy feelings on everything" but along the lines of
the internet connection is working and not pissing me off.
Lunch tasted good
I saw a hot chick today
etc.
maybe not todays reason to smile... but atleast todays reason to not frown. :)
Nov 01, 2006 09:16 pm well, if that's the case, i guess i am connected to God ALOT! hehe, i appreciate as much as i can everyday, sunsets, to chocolate...to me that's part of what makes life so damn great, EVERYTHING!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 02, 2006 08:40 pm Whatever or who ever God is will be determinded when we meet him, her or whatever entity God relaly is. I'm very certain of that.
I'm not the most church going of people either. But that doesnt mean I dont have a faith in some higher power.
WYD, you have probably done more good then bad. So that is what will be your redemption. I am guessing best case would be you get that chance to believe once you cross into the after life, whatever that may be. Or maybe you will come back as some widowers cat and give her some comfort in life before she heads out to the great here after. Then when your cats life is over, maybe you'll get to meet your maker and become a believer.
There are millions of differant scenario's to the end of life. And only the ones who are there can tell you what that is. So we are left to wonder exactly what it is.
But I do believe we go somewhere. Wether it is a happy place, or a sad rotting place. That is up to us to decide once we are ready to go I guess.
This could lead full circle to the ghost/spirit thread really. Are some still here because they have a task left undone? Or maybe some are here looking for a way to tell us that we need to believe or we'll end up walking the earth in spirit only.
I could go on and on.
Nov 03, 2006 02:45 pm so, souls can be created but not destroyed?....or are they all just recycled?....how many souls can a soul maker make if a soul maker could make souls?
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Nov 03, 2006 03:26 pm I tend to believe that souls are created from the main creative force (often called God), then they plug through their existence(s), eventually glomming back into the creative force.
kinda like a lake. It gives up individual water particles to evaporation. After the water particles do their thing (move away, come together with other particles, form groups, etc), they eventually come back again, sometimes one way, sometimes other ways. But they always come back.
I rather like that analogy, because at any time, a water particle (person/soul) can think it's on it's own, doing it's own thing, but actually, it's just a displaced part of the lake, out gaining experience.
The trick with us, I think, is to be a better water particle than when we left. I think we are, as to make it back into the source, we'd have to be pretty developed.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 03, 2006 06:17 pm WYD, I know what your thinking on this. And I do agree, if it can be created it sure can be destroyed. But what about all the what if's? We as a whole just dont know or have the answer. It will always just be one of those mysteries we can never solve. Some will believe and some wont.
Its just like the statement that we control our own destiny. Do we? I think we do, but others would dissagree that we dont. A higher power has a plan laid out for all of us and nothing we can do will change it. Or can we?
Again, I could go on.
Nov 03, 2006 07:50 pm Let all ye behold the awesome spectre of Herb clamping his own mouth shut.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Nov 04, 2006 08:12 am hee, hee, that Herb, he's a pretty smart guy =)
