There goes the town.....
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Posted on Nov 21, 2005 01:40 pm
whosyourdaddy00
Hold 'Em Czar
Member Since: Dec 30, 2004
well GM anounced several plant closings today, and Spring Hill's own Saturn was at the top of the list......this whole town (and county probably) is based around the income provided by GM....weather it's right or wrong is pointless to debate, i don't care....but what does scare me is the effect it's gonna have on this town....most small business will go down, and we've got TONS of houses and neighborhoods that will now be left vacant as alotta people will be transfered out of state (again)....Nissan is moving it's USA headquarters 30 miles north of us (which is odd)....but yeah...this town will be more or less a slum in about 10 years.....i know it sounds defeatist, but i know for a fact that there was less than 8,000 people here in '93 and now we've been in the top 10 fastest growing towns in the country for 5 years now....mostly because of Saturn. when a boom town like that looses it's income, it's not gonna be pretty.....
i sure am glad i'm not in the automotive industry.
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BeerHunterwww.TheLondonProject.caMember
Since: Feb 07, 2005
Nov 21, 2005 01:53 pm We have had similar thing happen around here (well north of here anyway). One big problem was that nobody would want to move there if there is no work. If nobody wants to move there, who are you going to sell your house to? Some people could barely give there house away.
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Nov 21, 2005 03:46 pm I need a house cheap :)
I learned early that working for GM or Ford was not a good idea... On the farm one of our hired hands was a GM tool and dye tech when I asked him what he did he said he watched three valve meters... he was pissed when he was layed off about a year later. He expanded his dairy farm and did ok though.
An industry full of people who themselves say they don't do a lot...
CrashIgnorance Is StrengthMember
Since: Nov 10, 2002
Nov 21, 2005 05:31 pm This is what happens when we as Americans don't protect our workforce and industry. When we elect people who want to replace American labor and industry with slave labor in Asia. Get used to it, in a few yrs. you wont be able to tell America from Indonesia.
Nov 21, 2005 05:54 pm This is also what happens when self-interested groups like labor unions demand high pay for jobs that a trained monkey could do. The only problem isn't the people we elect, it's also, in good part, due to large labor unions, they suck. They had their place when they started, now they are killing America in thre global marketplace.
As long as labor is available cheaper elsewhere people will use it, who is in office makes less difference than current administration bashers will admit to. It's called business, cheaper labor equals higher profits. In this new age of global economy what is any administration supposed to do, tell business they can't go overseas? Oh, yeah, good idea, than EVERYTHING leaves for overseas and we are totally screwed. As long as people that flip burgers and McDonalds think they deserve $10 an hour, or gov't/labor union employees in unckilled jobs need far more money than unskilled labor in ANY OTHER country gets. Basically as long as Americans all believe they are somehow OWED a nice house, nice car and the "American dream" without having to actually get their asses out of bed and WORK for it, this will continue to happen.
Part of the problem is that some many people have been conditioned to believe they are somehow victims, minorities or some other group of people that deserve more for doing less, we are screwed.
Hell, I am in I.T., it's not like I have been uneffected by the overseas labor transfers, but as long as developers think they deserve $80 an hour for doing their job, hell, I'd go overseas too if I owned the business...
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Nov 21, 2005 09:32 pm Well put dB. Unions, I agreee completely, they have lost their usefulness and become just another way for people, (the union bosses) to make a huge profit off someone else's sweat.
We hired a layed off NorthWest mechanic. He was the laziest piece of crud I have ever seen come through our doors. 6 months without a job, you would think he would have worked to earn the money he was getting paid, no instead he learned how to find the best places to hide and do nothing. He even laughed as he would tell stories about being the guy who volentered for the dirty job cleaning the wing tanks. Quote:
You could sleep for hours and no one would look for you. And if they did find him the union would protect him from being fired.
Ya big f-n laugh there! Now wonder they are without jobs now! Wanting to get paid for doing nothing, and paid 3 times the average pay in this country.
Pissed off, hell ya!
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Nov 21, 2005 09:41 pm heh I think I was the first person layed off in the IT bubble back in 98. :)
This is what happens when we over protect our workforce and industry, and the consumer says "no".
I learned to drive in the 90's "Buy American" craze and the only american vehicle I have ever owned was my old bands tour bus, a 1990 Dodge 15 passenger bus with 130,000 miles ... for which I traded a 90 toyota corolla with over 300,000 miles... I should have kept the corolla... it was turned into a race car and still lasted longer (and went a hell of a lot faster :) ) it would probably still be around but they guy accidently hit the nitrous switch when he went to shift and blew it apart.
I will admit that US autos are looking up quality wise to me because my parents are freaks when it comes to car shopping and both vehicles are now american A Chevy 3500 truck and a Ford 500. The 500 replaced a Toyota Prius which was an absolute piece of garbage... 80's volkswagons get better mileage and I actually got the thing hopelessly stuck in 1 inch of mud. ...and it rode a little worse than a golf cart.
I think in a few years after the batteries start to go bad all the Prius owners will have a collective "What the hell?"... it will be the new Ford Taurus :)
Nov 22, 2005 10:47 am Quote:
As long as labor is available cheaper elsewhere people will use it, who is in office makes less difference than current administration bashers will admit to. It's called business, cheaper labor equals higher profits. In this new age of global economy what is any administration supposed to do, tell business they can't go overseas? Oh, yeah, good idea, than EVERYTHING leaves for overseas and we are totally screwed. As long as people that flip burgers and McDonalds think they deserve $10 an hour, or gov't/labor union employees in unckilled jobs need far more money than unskilled labor in ANY OTHER country gets. Basically as long as Americans all believe they are somehow OWED a nice house, nice car and the "American dream" without having to actually get their asses out of bed and WORK for it, this will continue to happen.
you cant legislate to stop jobs going overseas, but you can penalize with higher taxes and reward companies with lower taxes that hire from our work force. why shouldnt someone at mcdonalds make 10 bux an hour and have benefits? atleast that person is out there working and not mooching of the government, which is pretty easy to do. mickey 'd's would rather pay michael jordon 20 million to do a few commercials than every consider that.
i guess in my mind i have this silly notion that if you have an american based company and you make a majority of your money off the american people you should keep it in the family, but thats not how business works there is only one loyalty and thats to the f#cking dollar. the ole days are gone!
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Nov 23, 2005 01:45 am I think labor unions are useful in moderation and are needed. But I also think they can go to far. When a worker is obviously wrong, the union should not need to waste time and money standing up for him/her. Let common sense dictate, not blind loyalty. I have seen unions do good things to advocate for my parents (both of whom are in unions), but I also see them contributing to waste in our government and industry. My main problem is with the unions that represent our public transit workers here in the bay area. Prices keep going up, and energy costs are part of that, but I'll be damned if transit workers don't get paid too much, many times many of 'em do horrible jobs too.
Man it sucks about your town though WYD
Sep 26, 2007 08:16 am well, here's the latest....
www.autoblog.com/2007/09/...ally-on-strike/
everyone in town here has gone from roughly $1,000 a week take home to $200.
the bar i work at is owned by a GM employee and is directly across the street from the plant....kind of a 'home base' of sorts....but now that the strike is in effect....every small business in the area is and will be affected including where i work, and my parents music shop...sad state of affairs.
i guess they're striking for pay/benefits security. but that's the exact reason American auto company's are hurting...this looks like a loose/loose situation to me.
Sep 26, 2007 08:20 am Read about the taconite era and upper Minnesota...it's STILL depressed up there and has been for years. Most of my dads side of the family lives up there.
It's not new to your area, and it's not like GM is doing anything wrong or illegal, just conducting business. You can't force a store or plant to stay open if the company can't afford it. Just because it's a big company doesn't mean they have lots of money.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Sep 26, 2007 08:41 am Our auto industry gives true credibility to the term "American Pig". All levels are on the take. From the janitor to the VP's, it's bloated. Now it's a scrap for who can hang on to the most of whats left. GM has ignored their competitors advances with arogance for decades. It is just sad that GM's demise has to hurt so many tangentialy related people, like the guy at McD's that sloped the pigs.
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Sep 26, 2007 09:09 am I've always had a certain distain for unions.
Not sure how it works over yonder but if a labour gov get's in here then Unions have certain control.
Can you imagne running your own show then having some union rep stopping in to tell you how you should do this and do that!
I RARELY get pollitical but when my favorite place on the internet mentions unions then i have something to say!
Let me expand!
I had an IT Contract role with a union some years back, as a result got to know the brass.
The Preident of this union (ms.x), met my GF and told her she was a Parrisite becuase she recieved a payrise.
A Payrise she didn't deserve becuase she wasn't in a union!
A Parrisite? WTF?
Do union's believe in the workers?
Or do Unions believe in their Members?
Sep 26, 2007 09:28 am As a machinist for 10 years I spent a lot of time delivering parts to union shops, and dealing with union competition. Unions are a militant sort at time. I would stop in some facility to drop off some parts and be looking for somebody to sign the delivery ticket. The lazy dude at the desk has his feet kicked up and was reading the paper, I asked for a signature. He said "nope, on break" with his fat face stuffed full of food..."wait for 5 more minutes".
To sign his damn name...
At that point I told him he's a lazy jerk and that finalized my opinions of unions. After speaking with a couple contacts at the company I found out that same guy has been suspected in actually physically hurting people in the plant and other weird stuff, but he has 20 years seniority and they really can't fire him...
Nice...how about the dozens and dozens of teachers in New York Citiy that are being paid but not teaching because the union won't let them fire them and the school administration doesn't find them fit to put in a classroom with kids due to criminal deeds or mental issues or whatnot...
Nice...
Yeah, unions encourage mediocrity and laziness.
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Sep 26, 2007 09:33 am Hang on Db!
You just sent me an invoice for my monthly membership to the HRCU!
What's doing?
I thought $450.00 was a bit rich.
Sep 26, 2007 09:40 am Well, how do you think us staff members that work to support YOU, the HRC members against the evil internet!
Sheesh, thankless union members!
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Sep 26, 2007 09:45 am Cheque's in the mail!
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Sep 26, 2007 09:46 am But i licked it!
zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Sep 26, 2007 10:03 am If you're still dependent on the auto industry you're only asking for trouble... agribusiness seems to be 'where its at.'
BleakA small pie will soon be eatenMember
Since: Aug 26, 2004
Sep 26, 2007 10:06 am Ahh
you mean Tax effective?
Beware!
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Sep 26, 2007 11:26 am Is agribusiness dependent on subsidies?
Agribusiness doesn't have to deal with unions cuz they got migrant workers...
Don't worry zek, you could've mentioned anything and someone would have something to say.
Sep 26, 2007 11:42 am Subsidies, ARGH! There is another thing that HAS to go, corporate welfare, it's common in agriculture and other businesses, and it is TOTALLY and COMPLETELY wrong.
If a business can't survive without gov't subsidies, it SHOULD go out of business.
Sep 27, 2007 04:58 am hehe, i'm gonna hafta get back to this thread when i'm a bit more coherent...
for the record, i'm the only lib i know that detests unions....
i'm partially biased because my father has been a member of the UAW my whole life (minus a few months)....so on the father/son clash issue, we've butted heads on this more than once.
not only that, i worked for GM (saturn) for over a year, AND payed union dues....to this day i'm still not sure why.
now i've firsthand witnessed the influence a big manufacture can have on a small community....i'm talkin' farmland to shopping center transformation. in 10 years for the whole county.
how did the cat get so fat?
i've been in and lived with this kind of mentality, and after i was actually 'inside' "it"...i got to understand it.
these damn people are so fracking full of themselves that they have the AUDACITY to demand 'a fair days work for a fair day's pay'...they are ALL in a bubble and have been disconnected from the 'real world' for decades and have inbread themselves into thinking 'because i work here, i deserve X'....
when i worked the same line i told these folks they wouldn't last a month in "the real world"...they'd laugh at the idea of working for $10 bucks an hour WITHOUT benefits.
Where the **** to they get off DEMANDING ANYTHING?!!!
yes, unions served a good and just propose back when slave labor was the hip thing. i think the government has taken that responsibility (OSHA and what not) and now the unions are a bunch of beached whales...
how did the cat get so fat?
Sep 27, 2007 06:49 am North of me is the "Iron Range" (Iron Ridge if you are GWB) and much of my family lives up there.
During the height of the Ore era, this era was booming...during this time people were working, money was rolling in. Hell a couple town had the Ore bigwigs build school building for their towns, and these buildings (I've seen them) are awesome. Big places, spacious rooms, chandalers hanging at hallway crossroads...beautiful brick architecture.
The ore era came to a halt and many storefront are vacant, these schools are still used but not nearly as grand, falling into disrepair, people don't have jobs or low pay jobs...the mines are still open but it's not the business it was.
Yet while people ***** about the low pay and not having work, they also skip work for even the stupidest reasons, "it's so and so's birthday" or whatever.
It's become just a different way of life altogether I just can't quite relate to. Over all I can only have so much sympathy.
Sep 28, 2007 06:22 am i can't stand unions...they've served their purpose and i don't really see any need for 'em anymore (in the US).
Sep 28, 2007 06:34 am That is exactly how I feel. Back in the day they were necessary, they are only counter productive now, but then, the ACLU was a good idea once but now they are actually counterproductive as well...
Leave to us humans, take a good idea and run it in to the ground.
