Complete newbie willing to learn asking for help!
Home > Home Recording Forum > Computers & Software > Complete newbie willing to learn asking for help!
Posted on Aug 05, 2005 09:55 am
Chiben
Member Since: Aug 05, 2005
Hey everyone! First of all, looking around this website and the forums here have helped me immensely in starting to understand what I need to do to set up my own recording studio, and frankly I could use some help. Anything you guys can give tips, pointers, advice would be appreciated. I also have some questions I wanted to ask you guys. I'm only 17 but my dream job is to be in the music industry as a producer (one can dream right?)
Before I get into my questions here's what I have in terms of recording equipment so far:
Hardware:
A Digidesign Mbox
A Behringer Eurorack 1622FX-Pro
1 Condenser Mic (MXL 2001)
2 Dynamic Mics (dunno the model, they're cheap though.)
2 Yamaha Speakers 220W (also don't know the model, moving all the band stuff here tommorow)
1 Yamaha PA
Software:
All the stuff that comes with the Mbox
Pro Tools LE
Reason Adapted for Digidesign (by Propellerhead?)
Ableton Live Digidesign Edition 2.1
And the plugins AmpliTube LE, SampleTank SE and T-RackS EQ
All the stuff is installed and I have the following questions:
1. What kind of cables do I use going from the mixer to the Mbox? Are instrument Cables all right? Speaker cables (is there a difference? =\)
2. On the Behringer Mixer, where do I plug in for the output going to the computer? I'm assuming it's the Main Out but the manual's so confusing I'm not sure of anything anymore
3. The Mbox only has two inputs, and I use that for left and Right going from the mixer right? Will Protools recognize that I have a mixer and when things are played will they be recorded as separate tracks?
So many questions are bubbling inside my head once I find a way to articulate what it is I will ask. I know the above questions are crude and I probably seem like an idiot to all of you but any help you can give I will take =).
Also any links to useful articles on this (or any other site), any tips, useful information, warnings, etc. etc. etc. would be appreciated.
I would also want everyone to know that I'm not one of those people that pays 650 dollars for new equipment and lets it lie dormant, giving up at the slightest hint of trouble. I've spent all night trying to learn up on this stuff and I have a massive headache right now so any help you give would be appreciated. Thank you in advance!
-Ben
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ChibenMember
Since: Aug 05, 2005
Aug 05, 2005 10:00 am Oh yeah my computer specs are as follows:
74.4 Gig hard drive and a 120 G external hard drive (Should I use the external? it's really slow but I can devote it entirely to my project)
Pentium 4 CPU 2.16 GHz, 1.00 GB RAM
I'm not sure how to look up my soundcard but I'm pretty sure it's Santa Cruz
Aug 05, 2005 10:01 am 1- yes, instrument cables are fine, they are more heavily shielded. Speaker cables are less shielded and designed to carry wattage, not light signal. If you have speaker cable going from the mixer to the mbox you could easily introduce noise.
2- I have the same mixer, I run the sub outs to my sound card, the sound card outs to the mixer into one of the stereo channel strips and run that to the main outputs, which go to the amp/speakers.
3- Protools won't give a crap if you have a mixer or not. You can record each side to two separate tracks if you assing two tracks, one to record the right signal one to record the left. Assuming Protools allows that...
Here is an example of how I hook up my system www.homerecordingconnecti...tory&id=132
And no, you don't seem like an idiot at all, just a newbie, nothing wrong with that, we all were at some point.
Welcome to HRC.
Aug 05, 2005 10:02 am disable the Santa Cruz, only use your mBox as a sound device...the Santa Cruz will only piss you off.
ChibenMember
Since: Aug 05, 2005
Aug 05, 2005 10:55 am Alright thank you so much for your help! So I should plug my mixer into my Mbox through the Sub Outs in the back. I wish this all made sense to me and I wouldn't be so confused but hey I'll take your word for it and hopefully figure out the reasoning for all this stuff eventually so I can help others out when I get better. Thanks for all the help and if anyone else has any other points/tips/advice/whatever please help me!!! =)
Aug 05, 2005 10:57 am Well, the subouts answer is easy. When recording a track, you can assing any channel(s) to go to only the sub outs and it will isolate JUST those channels going into the sound card to be recorded, all other sound sources coming in the mixer should be assigned to only the main outs, then they will not be recorded as well, but will still be coming through the same mixer for quick access to volume and such...
if that makes sense.
It seems like you have about everything you need to get to work, the only thing I see being nice to have would be an outboard compressor to compress some signals (vocals for example) before they even enter the sound card, but then, perhaps the compression available on the mixer might do that job for ya...
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Aug 05, 2005 11:10 am Wait a second, your Mbox has preamps built in to it. I can't tell if it has line inputs or not. If you're running through your mixer, then be sure to run into a line in on your Mbox.
The preamps on that Mbox are in a different league than the preamps on your Behri mixer. I'd suggest bypassing the mixer altogether and going straight into the Mbox. The Mbox is reknowned for its high quality preamps, so that's why I'd suggest using the mic inputs there any time you can.
stupeMember
Since: Apr 03, 2002
Aug 05, 2005 11:23 am 1. I believe your mbox has pre-amps built in already (meaning you plug mic's directly into mbox, software mixing) but if you must use a mixer. you can use any balanced 1/4 line and that should be fine.
2. I believe that your mixer does not go into your computer direct, but into the soundcard rather.
3. Your mixer will not be detected by your computer or pro tools, at least i've never heard of this. With your mbox, you can record 2 isolated seperate tracks at a time. However if you use sub outs on the mixer you can record many. But it will be mixed into one of the 2 tracks you are allowed.
Also a side note. I believe what you are looking for then, if you want to do multiple seperate channels is a sound card upgrade. Get one w/ at least 8 line ins, and you can have 8 seperate tracks at a time. The mbox is pretty good however I believe it's more for personal use and not mic'ing complete drum kits etc. I believe it doesn't have any Midi IN/out too.
TadpuiI am not a crook's headMember
Since: Mar 14, 2003
Aug 05, 2005 12:01 pm Oops, double double post post
ChibenMember
Since: Aug 05, 2005
Aug 05, 2005 05:14 pm Thanks for all the advice guys, it's going to take me a lot of read-throughs to figure these out but I think I get the basics. The reason I got the mixer is because the Mbox only has 2 pre-amps (is that what they're called? where you plug in the mics) and I need 3 pre-amps to record our drums (using 2 dynamic mics, 1 condenser mic, I'm going to read up on how to set this up later)
Ok and other things I need to do (correct me if I'm wrong):
Figure out how to enable the compressor on the Behringer
Figure out what this means:
"Well, the subouts answer is easy. When recording a track, you can assing any channel(s) to go to only the sub outs and it will isolate JUST those channels going into the sound card to be recorded, all other sound sources coming in the mixer should be assigned to only the main outs, then they will not be recorded as well, but will still be coming through the same mixer for quick access to volume and such..."
If maybe someone could rephrase that to make it easier for a newbie to understand it would be a great help. Like what is assing?
And stupe, while it would be great to get a new sound card, I think I've spend enough money...my parents would go crazy if I asked if I could spend anymore (I'm a senior in high school)
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Aug 05, 2005 05:42 pm Ha! assing, that was supposed to be assign (dam fat fingers) =)
Try this, picture the signal (two kinds, incoming, and pre-recorded) flowing through the mixer:
Mic -> cable -> channel 1 input -> through mixer, panned left -> out subgroup Left -> into PC soundcard input left -> onto it's own track in software.
mic -> cable -> channel 2 input -> through mixer, panned right -> out subgroup right -> into pc soundcard input right -> onto it's own track in software.
soundcard output left -> mixer stereo channel input left
soundcard output right -> mixer stereo channel input right
at this point, you have signal coming from the channel 1 and 2 going through your mixer, and going out subgroup outs, plus main outs.
Also, you have pre-recorded signal coming in through your stereo inputs, left and right, going only to your mains out.
this lets you record only the subgroup signals in your PC, while in your monitor solution, (which is plugged into the mains out) you hear the incoming signal , plus the pre-recorded signal.
hope that helps some, i wish i was doing this when i was in high school =)
Aug 05, 2005 05:57 pm read the article I linked to, that may help explain what I meant...maybe...
ChibenMember
Since: Aug 05, 2005
Aug 05, 2005 09:18 pm ok:
Mic -> cable -> channel 1 input -> through mixer, panned left -> out subgroup Left -> into PC soundcard input left -> onto it's own track in software.
mic -> cable -> channel 2 input -> through mixer, panned right -> out subgroup right -> into pc soundcard input right -> onto it's own track in software.
This part I think i understand, I need to pan my mixer L and R, what happens if I use more than 2 (like 2 Dynamic Mics and 1 Condenser)
soundcard output left -> mixer stereo channel input left
soundcard output right -> mixer stereo channel input right
Should I just hook it up directly from the Mbox to the speakers? or should I hook it up to the mixer and then the mixer to the speakers through another output (uh..main out?)Am I even talking about the right thing?
"Also, you have pre-recorded signal coming in through your stereo inputs, left and right, going only to your mains out.
this lets you record only the subgroup signals in your PC, while in your monitor solution, (which is plugged into the mains out) you hear the incoming signal , plus the pre-recorded signal."
Um...what is the Pre-recorded signal..if I'm understanding this right it goes from Mic --> Mixer --> Mbox through Sub out --> into Mbox through L and R input --> Computer software --> Output from Mbox--> Stereo Input in Mixer --> PA system through Main Out
Is that right? Also what's a monitor solution?
-Ben
You guys have been SUCH an awesome help thanks
Aug 05, 2005 11:56 pm If your using more than two mics at once, what you are recording will determine how those mics are setup on the desk. For example, if I were micing up drums with 3 mics, kick, snare and bus 1 (pan them both L), and then pan the kick right into bus 2. Once these signals are recorded, I would be able to treat the kick drum by itself, and treat the Snare & Overhead together.
Bu if I were micing an acoustic guitar with three mics, Left, Right and middle, the Left mic would be panned L, Right mic R, and the centre mic to the centre, creating a stereo image with three mics.
I would hook the monitors up to the mixer as you suggested. This will provide you with more control over the levels, and allow you to monitor both pre, and post MTR. Its basically more flexible than straight from your soundcard.
The downside of this is that it will increase the noise levels in your monitors. Not a biggy though.
And yes, you would connect them via. the master outs of your mixer.
Pre recorded signal is just stuff thats been recorded in protools, and that your playing back.
ChibenMember
Since: Aug 05, 2005
Aug 06, 2005 10:20 pm Guys thanks a lot! on the hardware section you guys have been a major help, so how about the software section?
The first question I have so far that I haven't been able to figure out myself is how to assign tracks sources. I recorded our acoustic guitar with a condenser mic and then created a new track in Protools to try and record the vocals with a dynamic mic but it didn't work (QUESTION 1: both these I used mono by the way cause I only recorded with one mic, should I record with stereo or no?), then I switched the input from source 1 to source 2 and it worked just fine. Question 2: What's the reason for this? Can I assign the track the source?
Again thanks a lot guys! I will be sure to tell you when our cd is complete so you guys can have a listen =)
-Ben
Aug 06, 2005 10:52 pm I wish I could help there, but I am no ProTools guy...there are a few ProToolers here, hopefully they can help...I would assume it is some "track properties" dialog box somewhere tho...
Aug 06, 2005 11:09 pm To record in pro tools you have to have the track record enabled if you didnt know already. Just hit the lil' R on the track in the edit window.
Make sure that the 1st track is not record enabled when recording the second track with the same input.
Sometimes the signal doesnt look like its gettin through until you acually hit record.
Hit Alt/Apple = to get to the mix window.
Your right recording them as mono tracks.
Thats all the advice i can give sorry.
ChibenMember
Since: Aug 05, 2005
Aug 07, 2005 12:05 am Haha that's ok I appreciate the help? (i'll try it tommorow the band's gone, it's late.)
ChibenMember
Since: Aug 05, 2005
Aug 07, 2005 08:59 pm Hey, got another question. We recorded and it sounds fine except that it's a little quiet. Is there anyway to make it sound louder? Thanks!
-Ben
Aug 07, 2005 09:20 pm compression.
ChibenMember
Since: Aug 05, 2005
Aug 07, 2005 10:08 pm Eh? Could you...elaborate?
Aug 08, 2005 12:35 am Stick some compression plug ins on the inserts of all of your individual drum tracks. And then buss them all to a group channel and put some compression on that!
Compression basically reduces the transients of the source signal allowing a higher RMS volume of the signal. Therefore louder drums with out clipping.
There are some good articles on compression in the recording tips section of HRC.
ChibenMember
Since: Aug 05, 2005
Aug 08, 2005 06:28 pm Alright, got another question.
Does a DeEsser reduce the amount of...I guess it's sort of a popping sound during vox. It occurs during words that our vocalist accent like "when" and "bed" during the line "when we're in bed" (no it's not talking about sex)
If I CAN use a DeEsser (i know it reduces the noise during words with say, S and T) what frequency/threshold should I put it at
(on a side note, what is a threshold?)
Thanks.
Aug 08, 2005 06:31 pm Threshold is thepoint where the unit starts to work.
Sibilance is around 1-8kHz. I suppose.
Adjust the threshold till it sounds natural. It depends on the signal
