Balanced Cables?
Home > Home Recording Forum > Recording Techniques > Balanced Cables?
Posted on Feb 15, 2005 08:11 pm
theskrub
If I were any cooler I'd freeze.
Member Since: Nov 08, 2004
Since my purchase of krk rokit5 montiors, ive noticed a hiss mainly computer electric noise. I run them out of my M-Audio Firewire1814 which are balanced outputs. I just run them through a 1/4 jack to the monitors.
To eliminate the buzz should I get balanced cables? If so are XLR cables balanced because it has an XLR input on the montiors but the out of the firewire is 1/4 only.
Would XLR to 1/4 be balanced? If not what do u recomend.
thanks
-scoooby doo?
[ Back to Top ]
Feb 15, 2005 08:35 pm Hi,
Yes, an XLR is a balanced connection. A 1/4" connector can be balanced or unbalanced depending on what it looks like. Commonly it is referred to as being either TS or TRS, where T stands for tip, S for sleeve and R for ring. A 1/4" TRS looks like a standard stereo connector. You're probably aware what a mono or stereo 1/4" looks like... so when you buy the cable just ask the assistant for a balanced cable, XLR at one end (probably male), 1/4" balanced at the other and make sure the 1/4" looks like a stereo plug.
The way a balanced cable works is interesting. There are three wires in the cable, one carrying ground, another the signal, and the third carrying the same signal, but out of phase by 180 degrees. When the information reaches its destination the two signals are combined and any information that is left over is interference picked-up along the way and added to the voltage, 60Hz hum or radio frequencies for example. Then that information is removed from the first signal to regain the pure, original sound. Clever.
www.mediacollege.com/audi...ack-stereo.html
theskrubIf I were any cooler I'd freeze.Member
Since: Nov 08, 2004
Feb 15, 2005 08:59 pm Thanks for that information Mr. Joe,
Does it need to be a stereo cable though?
I thought there are also balanced cables that were 1/4 on both sides am I wrong?
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Feb 15, 2005 09:32 pm yes, balanced can be 1/4" on both ends. be aware though, just because you're using 3 conductor cables, doesn't mean that you're benefiting from balanced signal, you need to have the circuitry on both ends do the flip-flopping.
Reading your question, I'm thinking you should read Joe's answer again; to carry a balanced signal, a cable needs 3 conductors. XLR is a normal example of this. A 1/4" stereo cable can be used in a balanced fashion as it also has three conductors. But this cable would be carrying a mono signal at this point (balanced).
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Feb 15, 2005 09:34 pm regarding your hiss problem, are there florescent lights around? they introduce hum / hiss like crazy. Also dimmer lights introduce hum / hiss into electrical stuff. If your cable runs are short, then I doubt the balanced would benefit your hiss problem. I'd think it's coming from somewhere else.
theskrubIf I were any cooler I'd freeze.Member
Since: Nov 08, 2004
Feb 16, 2005 05:55 pm Yes I have dimmer lights in the room, but even when I dont use them I get the hiss like when rolling the mouse or anything in that matter. The cable to monitor length is like 7 feetish around there I forget.
Does it matter whether i get mono or stereo cables and are all XLR cables balanced?
Feb 16, 2005 06:35 pm all xlr cables are balanced (as long as they're xlr on both ends) and all TRS (stereo) cables are balanced (as long as they're trs on both ends).
Feb 16, 2005 06:47 pm I would definitely recommend balanced cables... and yes, to be balanced they have to be stereo. As pjk has said you don't need to use an XLR necessarily, a cable with a 1/4" at each end is fine, but just as long as they are stereo connectors - a mono cable is NOT balanced!
Put very simply you need cables that look like:
hosatech.com/hosa/products/STX-100M.html
or
hosatech.com/hosa/products/CSS-100.html
The shorter the cable the better too - so if you can get one under 7 feet I would recommend it, though that's a fair enough length really.
More importantly... it sounds to me like you have a very serious interference problem (mouse usage causing hissing?!?) so I advise taking the time to tackle the problem at source - what is the condition of all the cables in your studio? Power cables too? It could even be a problem with the wiring in your home, perhaps a grounding problem, and you may need to consult an electrician.
theskrubIf I were any cooler I'd freeze.Member
Since: Nov 08, 2004
Feb 16, 2005 07:16 pm Thanks for the help,
I now have a better grasp of it all.
I hope this solves the problem.
-Shaquanda Bojenka Williams
Feb 16, 2005 07:38 pm No problem, I hope you sort it out :-)
jmailjimmie neutronMember
Since: Feb 14, 2005
Feb 16, 2005 08:54 pm Computer leaking into monitor speakers can be an open ground or reversed hot & common (both?) in the outlet itself. It could also be from running you signal cables next to power cable, thereby inducing voltage into the signal. It can also be a poorly shielded computer case. Make sure you have your case sides and all back panel blanks in place. Also, I had a noise problem with my system a few years back and stumbled onto my solution: If I had a disk in the CD-R, I got the noise. If the drive was empty, no problem. I have no idea why, but I made sure the CD-R was empty whenever I did music with the computer on. You don't have your monitors (speakers) too close to your monitor, do you? Flat panel LCD shouldn't cause too much trouble.
Feb 16, 2005 11:03 pm You mention you get noise when moving the mouse. This could indicate you have audio leads too near PC or monitor.
Also from the M-Audio knowledgebase:
Do you get some type of Zipper noise when moving the mouse? Try to lower the Hardware Acceleration for your Graphics Card (Right click on desktop background/properties/settings/advanced/troubleshooting/set to none/ restart computer). If this helps, make sure the video card driver is compatible with the DirectX version you have installed on your computer.
Cheers,
Marty.
ollielMember
Since: Dec 22, 2005
Dec 24, 2005 05:43 am Hi there, on my mixer, i need to use my aux send to go to my soundcard, i have 2 aux sends (send 1 and send 2), i don't have the manual but i assume that thse are balanced outs. But confussing things, the aux returns are L and R for aux send 1, and the same for aux send 2. Does that mean that the output is balanced, but the input is unbalanced? if so, why is this?
Also, sorry, but my mixer has 4 balanced channels, track 1-4, but the last four are 5/6, 7/8,9/10,11/12. Because these have two inputs, they are both unbalanced, i.e all the tracks have a L and R input. I assume these are both unbalanced, if so how would i record a stereo guitar into here? Can i? Would i use the aux send and feed it back into the R or L (depending) input?
thankyou, ollie
