Feb 02, 2005 07:45 pm ummmmmm, URL?
Tell me what you think of website
Posted on Feb 02, 2005 07:37 pm
chrisg
Member Since: Mar 08, 2004
I have just uploaded my bands website that I created. It's real basic because of where we live(not to may broadband users..mostly dialup).
Just tell me some things that you would fix and things you like. One more thing, I am not the best web designer in the world. Only had one semester of it..so please take that into consideration.
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Feb 02, 2005 08:43 pm I'll tell you what I would do. Don't take anything personal. Just things I'd do:
I wouldn't use frames. Search engines have trouble indexing them.
I'd make titles to your pages.
I'd create better graphics.
I'd put hover-over effects for the hyperlinks.
I'd change the font size to something smaller and something more professional looking.
I'd change the "half broke" logo. It looks broke which is maybe why you have it like that, but I'd have something a little more appealing with shadows and anti-aliased better, etc...
I'd change the "shows" page so it didn't have a lot of the black at the end of the table.
I'd use tables.
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I just finished creating a site for my buddy's dad: www.ldcequipment.com It's not the best because his hosting company has a real slow server and has advertisements on it. We will be changing that real soon. But I gave him a good deal. $225 for two websites with all custom work.
Feb 02, 2005 09:44 pm Yeah, frames are bad enough, but when the browser titlebar says "untitled document" that just compounds the problems...unless, of course, your band's name is "untitled document" :-) I see youhave titles on the pages within the frame, but not the frameset page.
Font is too big as well...
I kinda like the logo if it was a bit cleaner laying against the textured background, but it seems a bit jagged and pixelated at the edges.
Feb 02, 2005 11:25 pm Thanx guys for the help. The reason I used frames is because it helps me keep the navigation bar up top and still have the browsed page below. I haven't quite got the hane of tables yet.
The logo I like alot but I messed that version up with photoshop.
I always seem to forget things like the dang titlebar.
Basiclly this is a rough draft that I put up for now just to have a band webpage. We didn't have one until today.
I will try and get the table thing down because it will probably look better. This was just first try, kinda like a first mix and then you listen to it and get opinions and then fix it.
Thanx again.
Feb 03, 2005 02:21 am it took me a while to understand tables. Before, I'd create tables that looked like it fit perfect, but when I changed screen resolutions, it'd expand and everything would look terrible.
But I got the hang of it now. As some advice, you may come by times where you have to put a table inside of another table which is inside of tables, etc lol. Kind of confusing, but once you make a few sites, you'll get a hang of it more.
Feb 03, 2005 02:28 am You need to get out the frames and use another method i.e. either style sheets (css) or the most common method namely tables as Illbizzel said.
Tables within a table will do the trick and its not all that difficult - like this.
<table width="750">
<tr><td>
<table width="725">
<td><td> Content goes here...
remember to close all tags and finish the tables properly but other than that - tis all easy enuff.
Other than these issues, the big one is the title bar, the biggie for search engines...you MUST put a relevant title on EVERY page or your knakcered...period!
Good luck to ye
Coco
Feb 03, 2005 07:39 am rather than getting hung up on learning tables, since they are pretty old school and prolly going away, concentrate of CSS and positioning DIV's with it. You can create table-like structures without tables. HRC will be going that route when I have f'in time to do it.
Lots of people use frame for those same reasons you mentioned, but I could lay out a laundry-list of reasons they suck. However, Jakob Nielsen already did www.useit.com/alertbox/9612.html it's old (1996), but much of it still pertains today.
Feb 03, 2005 09:17 am do you have a link to a good tutorial on CSS? I've never used it and will be putting a website for my movie up tonight hopefully.
Feb 03, 2005 12:27 pm Sweet, good points dB. I've been plugging along with your 'frames are bad' mentality, but not done anything about it. I may start learning up on the CSS mindset and see what I can do.
Thanks for the tips.
Feb 03, 2005 12:31 pm Glad to help. There are some, but very few, instances where frame are useful and cool, but, as a whole, I wish they would have never been added to the HTML standard.
If you have any intention of doing web dev as a career or even a semi-serious hobby or extra money biz (like Coco does) you really have no choice but to get to know CSS very well, it's necessary, cuz at some point things like <font> and junk are just gonna disappear...not soon likely, but ya never know. CSS and XHTML coding standards are the best. HRC isn't perfect XHTML, but it's not bad...
Feb 03, 2005 01:09 pm Font is depreciated as ye say dB...CSS is THE way to go for formatting WITHOUT EXCEPTION i.e. fonts, colours, shades, etc.
CSS is also heading for THE layout structure to use. I just designed a whole new website without a single table...all CSS. Clean, good markup and nice lookin to boot. And, it loads faster.
But, alas, tables ARE still here - just headin oot. Im with dB - get doon with CSS...its the future man!
Coco
Feb 03, 2005 01:48 pm Grand. I've done a bunch of stuff for the company I'm contracting at, but didn't have any real good direction, other than figure it out on my own. As such, I used frames, and didn't do much with CSS, though there is a little. I did use a lot of PHP and some mySQL, so I feel good about that, but would like to be ready should I like (or need) to revamp the site to bring it up to today's standards.
If'n anyone's interested - www.stellmar.com
Unfortunately, I'm the only one here that does anything even close to this, and I'm also doing many other tasks, so I may not always have time to re-write code that's already working, if you know what I mean.
Feb 03, 2005 01:52 pm Yeah, I know what you mean, the main way that frames kills a business site is something Hero found out yesterday. Search Engines HATE them, when they do index them (if they do at all) it will often link to a page within a frame, and not the frame itself, so what the visitor clicks thru to is a page with no other frames, in your case, no header and no navigation such as this www.stellmar.com/html/HomePage.htm which is BAD. You can use javascript to force frame loads around pages, which is the quick fix, but still, you search engine optimization is tricky.
And if a business does not what to rank good on search engines as a basic part of having a web site, what the hell is it needed for, if nobody finds it, it's worthless to a business. The only visitors will then be people that see your URL in an ad or on a commercial or something.
That is why small businesses often contract part time web people like me or Coco to take care of that stuff, so it does not affect every day business activity that people like you have to do.
Feb 03, 2005 02:08 pm We're getting into page ranking optimization more and more as we go along, but with this to think about, it may change some of how we direct our resources (namely: me).
I think I'll bring this up soon as a good and necessary direction to get into.
Thanks for the info dB.
[quote]
That is why small businesses often contract part time web people like me or Coco to take care of that stuff, so it does not affect every day business activity that people like you have to do.
[/quote]
heh, that's what I'm for. Just needed better direction =)
Hey Coco, can I get a gander at your all CSS site? I'd love to see some of the code (or maybe small samples of the layout sections). I'd totally understand if you'd prefer to keep it under-wraps.
Thanks for the help guys.
Feb 03, 2005 02:14 pm hell, just go look at the code of any site to see it, if it's external, look for the file name linked to and you can download it. It's easy.
If you want to take SEO more seriously as a business, the very first step you need to make is loose the frame...FYI, in case it matters at all, I am available for consulting on short term guidance type role, I could scan your site, take a few hours and do keywords analysis, look at your code and orignzation and right up a report of the best route to take for better SEO...but with that, I'll take it offline, you can get more details about that at www.dbmasters.net this site isn't for me to sell my services, so I'll stop with just offering them in case you need them.
Feb 03, 2005 04:06 pm CSS rocks. I actually think layout with CSS is easier in ways than tables. I think of it as taking a chunk of content (eg. within a div) and shoving it wherever you wish.
Here's an awesome site with tutorials for html and css:
www.htmldog.com
I couldn't imagine ever building a site without css anymore.
Feb 03, 2005 04:07 pm That said, tables will work with older browser (why I still use it here), CSS positioning has problems with Netscape 4 and older browsers...
However, Netscape 4 is now old enough where I may consider dumping support for it at HRC...
Look at logs, ya might be surprised how many people still use text only browsers, older Netscape and IE's, WebTV and other weird things...
oh, and pjk here is an older article that might help you with the SEO stuff www.homerecordingconnecti...tory&id=392
Feb 03, 2005 06:09 pm I changed the site a little. I used some tables and changed the overall look. I feel there needs to be a background but haven't decided on what. It still seems a little plain to me but better then before. I will slowly figure out things to spice it up.
www.halfbrokeband.com
Feb 03, 2005 06:35 pm Hey PJK
I wont do any ads as I respect dB and this site too much but as ye ask, if ye check my profile, you'll find a link to my own site where ye can see my own websites which are of varying style/design and quality (some are ollddd).
The newest one, just completed is for my new business - www.breverstudios.com - this is made ENTIRELY in css...as dB says tho, ye can see it at work most anywhere. As we all agree, tables are still useful, they just wont be around forever so if ye get with CSS now, it'll save ye the bother efter.
Nae worries...and as for SEO, dB is very good at this. I checked for something one day only to find my OWN BLOODY POST here at HRC on the subject!!! Now thats well done...
So - there it is...good luck to ye all.
Coco.
Feb 03, 2005 06:36 pm BTW, check out dB's very own Content Management System - it rocks...
scripts.dbmasters.net
This isn't just CSS and there are tables there but as a starting point (so many folk roond here seem to be looking for such), you cant go far wrong with dB's system...top notch stuff.
Respect.
Coco
Feb 03, 2005 06:38 pm Chris
It looks about a thousand times better so far...keep with it and over time, it all comes real natural.
As I say, a big improvement on what I seen yesterday - good luck.
Coco.
Feb 03, 2005 07:19 pm wow, what a day will do, mucho much better.
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