Drum Kit mics/ Audix D or F series kits or SM57's& ?Others to consider?
Home > Home Recording Forum > Gear Gab > Drum Kit mics/ Audix D or F series kits or SM57's& ?Others to consider?
Posted on Jul 19, 2004 04:45 pm
Dave Willis
Facilitator O' Funk
Member Since: Jul 19, 2004
I am in need of mics for our drummers rack and floor toms.I have some SM57s ,a Beta 52,an AKG D112,a pair of Rode NT5's.The mics I'm looking for will work well live and kick serious Booty in my digital studio.I've been looking at Audix D-2's and D-3's as well as other mics in the $100-$200 price range.Some of the Audix kits look appealing.Any suggestions or is it all just a case of Ford vs. Chevy vs. Toyota vs. Yugo?Our drummer's kit is very nice sounding and I want to do it justice.I don't feel like I can afford Sennheiser 421s what's the next best bet?.
[ Back to Top ]
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jul 19, 2004 09:17 pm I've got a set of three Sennheriser 6 hundred somethings that I like for toms. I would think that the Rode NT5's would be good overheads and the 57's would work well for toms / snare if you can mount them without too much problem. I think the Audix and Shure kits are good values too. I have only experienced one kit by Nady that I was very dissipointed with.
MinkusMazBane of All ExistenceMember
Since: Mar 27, 2003
Jul 20, 2004 01:19 am you've already got the 57's...use them. they work fine for me. if those 58's that are in your profile aren't being used for vocals, you can use them too.
Jul 20, 2004 08:14 am It sounds like you already have all that you need. SM57's are part of the Shure drum packages, and are great on toms. The sound quality improvement you'd achieve by going with more expensive mics would probably be insignificant in my opinion. Not something you'd notice when things are all in the mix. Your sound quality is going to come more from the way you mix the drums than what mics you used, after a certain point. I can bet you there are many, many pro studios that use the same set of mics you just said you have for recording a set.
vdalehubbardLost for words with all to say.Contributor
Since: Sep 12, 2003
Jul 20, 2004 08:53 am The SM57's will do the trick. I have two sets of Audix F series, the series under the D's. I love them, the overhead works great. But SM57's will do the same if not better.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jul 20, 2004 10:46 pm Agreed with last three posts. The only place you may be a little light could be the kick; obviously dependant on the sound you want. I use a 57 on the kick on big band drummer and it is fine for the place a kick takes in swing music. It is inept however for another band I am affiliated with Project Dead. Death, heavy metal, grog, rock. For them I have to achieve that heart stopping, bone rattling thud that puts out the rear window of your SUV. I am looking into a Shure field effect that sits inside the kick (sorry forgot the model at the moment. I got close using a Peavey kick mic on the malets and a 57 on the front with a lot of compression and some overdrive. Still not adaquate however.
Jul 21, 2004 10:58 am Hey Walt, he says he's got an AKG D112, I think.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jul 22, 2004 12:20 am Thanks for pointing that out Mr. Muffins. Had to bop over to www.akg.com to take a peak. Wasn't familiar with that one. Ya, I guess per AKG's reputation you got the kick mic down pat.
I guess to be fully honest, I am not sure what a kick drum sounds like. They usually tear up any acoustical environment you put the in and cause everything around to resonate. Half of what I hear recorded is a synthetic representation to some degree. Rough critters to work with. I need to try a few more kick mics myself. I have yet to find one that makes me go WoW!
Jul 22, 2004 02:34 pm He also got the Beta52A, doesn't he. That one is also a mic for the kick, I do not know that one though. For toms there is also the BETA 98D/S from Shures Beta series, which delivers quite decent results. If you want to hear some kicks recorded through a combination of the AKG D112 and a Shure Beta 91 (I guess that's the one you meant Walt) you can listen to the demos on
www.funkequipment.com/MP3DEMOS.html
Don't wonder why I know the microphones used here, I am one of three guys involved in the development of that stuff .
If you should prefer shure vs. audix vs. ???, I can't answer however.
Jul 22, 2004 02:36 pm To dumb to use the smilies correctly I am
Jul 22, 2004 05:37 pm Yeah, I just noticed that he has a Beta 52, too. You could use that on a floor tom and use the AKG for the kick, or the other way around.
I've got a Beta 52. It doesn't particularly impress me, it's just like an SM58 with less sensitivity and an eq cut in the mids. I don't find the cut in the mids to be all that special since that can be done with EQ, and I use tons of EQ on it either way.
Maybe mine's broken... I'll never know.
Dave WillisFacilitator O' FunkMember
Since: Jul 19, 2004
Jul 25, 2004 11:44 am Thank you all for you suggestions,opinions and advice .This is a great resource ,so glad I stumbled upon it.My next question would be regarding placement of the rack tom mic(s)and over heads.For multi-track recording ,if a SM57 were used ,is one mic between the two toms ,say centered 2-3 inches above the drum heads, the (a) way to go or are two mics going to give me infinantly more control.Is less really more?Why would one mic the top and bottom of a particular drum (I'd under stand doing this to a snare ,this technique seems like overkill for any of the other drums.I've also read about a phenomina called phase cancelation occuring with the use of stereo overheads (Rode NT5s) and potentially with the mics on the rac toms if not placed correctly.What does 'phase cancelation 'sound like (or not sound like is probibly more accurate,ha,ha)and what can be done to avoid or correct it. This is my first attempt at recording a band using multiple mics and time is of the essence with the folks I'm recording.I want to have done my homework before I even begin setting up to record them.Thanks again!!!
Dave WillisFacilitator O' FunkMember
Since: Jul 19, 2004
Jul 25, 2004 11:49 am And buy the way Porpoise Muffins,your name cracked me up.I have a friend who's on line name is 'smiles like a porpoise' ,he also sometimes goes by 'corporate primate'.
Jul 25, 2004 02:59 pm Haha... Thanks, Dave. I've always found the words porpoise and muffins amusing, even more so when combined.
Phase cancellation will often dramatically change the sound of an instrument. Listen for frequency ranges being sucked out when both mics are played back together. If you pan two out-of-phase microphones on playback the result will often sound really spacious (Generally in a bad way). I believe that's how you simulate surround sound with only two speakers (If you do it just right). But yes, it is sometimes difficult to tell whether something is out of phase or not, and very annoying, as well.
Yes, you can use one sm57 for two toms. I do it all the time. One for each could potentially sound better and give you more mixdown options, but, no, you won't hear a gigantic difference if you do it right.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jul 25, 2004 11:14 pm Thank you LetMeBeat, And I am sure you are correct about that model number. I do like the sound you are generating. I think I will go with the AKG first and when possible pick up the Shure. The AKG is a little more versitle as I also work with a number of closed kick kits.
Dave, as Mr. Muffins indicates it phase cancelation will dramaticaly alter sound. Especially in lower frequency ranges say from 800 or so down. What is happening is that frequencies that are lining up perfectly oppisite in wave form actually cancel each other out and no sound is produced in that frequency range. A good way to hear an exagerated example of the effect is play something through a stereo that is recorded in mono. Reverse the leads on one of your stereo speakers. You should hear a greatly diminished bottom end. Real muddy and "bloomed". When micing it is always good to give some thought to how the mic is reacing to the instrument. A good example would be micing a snare from top and bottom. When a stick first hits the top of a snare the snare head moves down "sucking" air with it. This will pull the diaphram of a mic placed at the top of the snare away from the body of the mic. The mic placed at the bottom of the snare will be subject to air pushing on the diaphram moving it toward the body of the mic. The mics will be recording the same sound but at oppisite phases. The diaphrams are moving in opsite directions one mic creating a positive electrical signal the other a negitive one. Mixed together the two signals will cancel. By electricaly or via software reversing the phase of one of the mics the two signals will add.
Hope this helps.
Dave WillisFacilitator O' FunkMember
Since: Jul 19, 2004
Jul 26, 2004 07:16 pm Thanks again y'all! I'll be doing some sessions with the whole band this fall (hopefully with the band's human drummer, not the goofy ol' DR202).I'll be able to apply my new drum micing knowledge at that point.I'll let you know how things go and ask more questions as needed.If you're out west and get a chance ,come see our band some time!We gig in our home town Quincy Ca. most often and get out to Reno Nv./Lake Tahoe area , Chico,Ca. as well as parts of So. Oregon and out to the Nor. Cal. coast Humbolt county way on occation.As soon as we get our promotional/press kit doo-doo together(flakey musicans!!!) we'll be hitting up S.F. Bay area clubs and Sacramento area clubs as well.Ciao for naio! P.S.Hey Walt, I dig the big band era swing ,music these days sure ain't what it used to be.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jul 26, 2004 11:32 pm Well thank you Dave. It is good to hear someone enjoying the genre. The folks that were teens in the 60's are now in their 60's, and it pretty much leaves the planet with nobody that knows anything but rock. Sad really. Not that rock is not enjoyable, it is just not the only music ever played.
