Mar 30, 2004 05:35 am www.homerecordingconnecti...story&id=38
Acoustic Guitar - Advice!!
Posted on Mar 30, 2004 05:26 am
cocofromscotland
Hello!
Member Since: Jan 12, 2004
Hi Folks,
Been very busy using some new gear in ma wee studio - or trying to! I tell yi this - the more I get, the more luxury I enjoy - the less I do! Its a case of - I can delete this, redo it and repeat 100 times over - just because I can - end result...I get NOTHING finished! Arrgh!
Anyway, to the point. I am trying to record my Acoustic Guitar (its an electro accoustic) so I am pluggin straight into the M-Audio Buddy with the mic plugged in the other channel and recording live for that "feel".
Can someone offer me some EQ suggestions (just frequencies or whatever) so I can sort this damn acoustic out. It sounds sharp and amatuer to start with but messing with EQ should fix this - I just canny sort that! Try as I may, I seem to either cut of all the sharpness or not enuff.
Another question, somewhat related but not quite (I told yi I was having problems!). I am also recording my Epi Les Paul using purely the V-Amp 2. Can anyone pls offer a suggestion as to which amp to use to try and get that old Aerosmith, Guns N'Roses type "rock power" sound on teh chords? Or can this be gained using EQ too? I've been at this for 2 months solid, 4 hrs per night, every night and with some degree of success, but I must say - I still cant get close with the sound I am after.
If any guitarists/mixers/music gurus have any tips on achieving these sounds I am after, I would be most greatful.
Many thanks guys.
Coco.
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Apr 03, 2004 12:09 am I do lots of recording with my acoustic. I use 2 mics, but I can give you some help with your setup, 1 mic and the pickup.
First the pickup: keep the output about 75-80% max. Its better to cut frequencies than to boost, that's what everyone says, less noise and crap into the signal. So give a bit of cut in the midrange on the guitar preamp.
About the mic: point the mic at the area where the neck meets the body, around fret 14. Aiming it at an angle towards the soundhole will give more bass and boom, towards the head will give more string and twang. Distance should be between 12-18 inches give or take. Experiment to find the sweet spot.
EQ and Mixing: try to get the best sound from each source before mixing together. Get the pickup EQed during playback so it sounds as natural as possible, cut lots below 100-120hz, you don't need that for acoustic, its just rumble mess. Cut more mids about 900-1200hz if it sounds too in your face. A bit of boost at 5000hz and gives it some shine and shimmer.
EQ the mic about the same, you'll really notice the 5000-6000hz range add shimmer and brillance, but don't get carried away, you want a balance between bottom, mid and highs. A small boost at 10,000hz gives it a very open, airy quality. I hear lots of acoustics that are EQed with all highs, they sound like cheap acoustics. In a full mix its neccesary to do this sometimes so they blend, but solo acoustic needs balance or it sounds cheap.
Mix the 2 together, try to let the mic dominate and use the pickup to reinforce that sound. You should pan the 2 sources apart a bit to open up the sound and add some depth and warmth. Not too far or it sounds all spacey and out of phase.
That's my best advice - Good Luck and Have Fun,
Steve
Apr 03, 2004 04:56 am Thanks very much with this advice! Just what the doctor ordered.
I am more using the pre-amp route but I could try and plug into the pre-amp and MIC it at the same time - could be interesting!!
Again, thanks to both you guys. I will defo give all this advice a go and let you know how I get on..
As I say - I know what u mean with the cheap accoustic sound (even tho my accoustic wasnt cheap!!)...so - thats just what I need.
Cheers guys.
Coco.
Apr 03, 2004 08:07 am I would always recommend micing an acoustic guitar rather than plugging it in (except in live situations). Mic it at the bridge to keep it from sounding really harsh. I like the sound of another mic hanging above the left shoulder of the player pointing down at the neck. It gives it a nice stereo effect if you pan them separately, and it brings in some of the sound of the room. I generally don't put any eq on acoustic at all, except for a bit of a low cut for clarity.
Apr 04, 2004 09:04 pm My acoustic has a nice fishman setup with a 4 band EQ but I still put a mic up to pick up some of the room sound the fishman might miss.
Apr 10, 2004 07:45 am Usually for an Acoustic with an Acou/electric, I will use the Plugin through a direct box, then put one mic at the sound hole about 45 degrees in from the right 12 inches out and then one mic at the neck to catch a lot of the fret action. Then I will combine the mic's in stereo Right and Left on my console and mix them together for an awesome sound. I'll gradually mix in the direct line for an extra "punch" to the acoustic, but I would highly reccomend recording everything through a direct line with a flat output if your acoustic/electric has any type of EQ on it because you want to capture the overall tone and quality of the guitar and not its effects (unless they are really cool and you're only utilizing the direct line).
You can also play with the panning of the mics to where you would like them in your mix to create cool stuff, but I would warn about certain spots to create phase cancellation with the mics sometimes depending on your situation. This technique overall though will give you a very cool "wall of sound" from your acoustic and you will probably dig it very much like I have and fall in love with using it every time you have an acoustic situation. lol
Goodluck, and don't be afraid to experiment with it. peace
Apr 10, 2004 11:46 am I'm a newbie and I know this might sound real dumb, but I have taken a handset mic and stuck it directly into my acoustic and turned down the gain. I know that is not professsional and I am more of a synth enthusiast, but it did have an odd, deadpan 60's sound to it.
Apr 10, 2004 12:02 pm wow, did you get any feedback on the mic when you tried putting it in the acoustic? I imagine that it would have a lot of bass response and it would sound sorta hollow in the body of an acoustic like that which would give it that 60's vibe. :)
Apr 10, 2004 12:42 pm I had to have the volume down real low, but it almost sounded like a Hendixy fuzz tone.
Apr 10, 2004 12:53 pm I would like to also add I went from a basement type setting to sheetrock and there seemed to be a hint of reverb, giving the sound more sustain and clarity. On my dinosaur setup I notice how important acoustics are.
Apr 10, 2004 06:10 pm BIG MASSIVE thanks to all for this post.
There's more good avice here than you could shake a stick at so I am gonny give all this info/experience a run next week.
My only dilema is wether to port straiht over to Cubase SX2 or stick with Sonar as well...any plugins with SX2 which may be of use?
Thanks again folks..a true community of professional advice we have here..
Respect.
Coco.
Apr 10, 2004 06:15 pm The newest issue of Music Tech Magazine just arrived today, it has a big article about getting good guitar sounds...just another FYI about the best mag in the biz.
Apr 11, 2004 01:15 am Another old trick is to get a radio shack lavaleir mic, its that little tie clip mic, and stick that in the sound hole! It works OK, sort of...well....
Apr 14, 2004 07:48 pm Coco, you are using Sonar and i would suggest just sticking with it. Unless you have a very good reason to change. Learning one app well is really the best way to go. Then on down the road if there is reason to add another platform it is easier to justify. I still Havent upgraded my Cuase to SX yet and may not as Sonar is working so well, and for the clients I do get that are using Cubase I can still open and work with files in the version I have so no need to update.
Apr 14, 2004 07:50 pm I am thinking you replied to the wrong thread there tough guy ;-)
Apr 20, 2004 09:21 pm Na, just a short thread hi-jacking.
Apr 22, 2004 05:02 am re: the v-amp question...
I use the v-amp myself (it's killer for it's cost huh?) and I think the real key with getting a good sound out of the v-amp is pre-eq... (pref. parametric if you can manage it)
i.e.
Guitar > pre-EQ > v-amp > recording device.
I personally use the "Savage Beast" setting 'cause I'm after a more 'evil' tone, but if you're looking for that kind of 'classic rock' style have a play with the simple 'ultimate v-amp' setting.
Again, pre-EQ is what really gives you control of the sound, but play with pickup settings as well and you're doing pretty much the same thing (altering the signal that goes into the v-amp).
Post EQ will give you control over the sound that you get, but...hmmmm...
Okay, think of it this way.
Your guitar tone is a lump of clay. (work with me here ;))
The type of guitar/pickups etc you have (with the preferable inclusion of pre-EQ) is what moulds the clay into it's 'shape'... what the character of the sound is. (i.e. you can have two very similar guitar tones with two very different 'characters' by playing with the signal before it hits any kind of amplification.
Once you've gotten the 'character' via the pre-amplification stuff, you stick that proverbial clay in the firing oven.
Read: Amp.
You model the clay, and amplify and record it (thank GOD you're using a v-amp not an amp and mic setup, that introduces a WHOLE new level of fun into the equation).
Post-EQ is like the glazing on the clay.
You can't reeeeally alter the 'shape' of the tone in post EQ (without messing with it too much), but you can morph it so it sounds fuller, wider... you can make it occupy the right 'space' in your mix with post-EQ.
I dunno, the clay example really puts the sonic idea nicely in my head, it's quite good when you can start 'seeing' the tone instead of just hearing it....
Gads... :/
If any of this is confusing at all, you might want to check out the articles in here:
www.homerecordingconnecti...t&cat_id=12
Apr 22, 2004 11:18 am Since this hasn't been explicitly mentioned, most of the bands you're citing used Marshall JCM800's. Try a marshall "crunch" model ('m not sure how the names run on the V-amp) with a fairly high gain setting and a bit of compression. For bonus points, double-track.
Also, they're probably using more midrange and less gain than you think... that Epi will get you into GNR territory, so, i'll guess some settings:
Gain: 7-sh
Treble: 6
Mid: 4-5
Bass:4-6, depending on your bass guitar tone
That and your bridge pickup and a strong attack should get you close... In general, use as little gain as possible to still get the compression and "darkness" in the tone you need, as this will make for a bigger, clearer guitar sound later on in the mix.
-D
Apr 23, 2004 06:38 am Drew...
Many thanks. I have been experimenting with settings for years and years on my Marshall but I always used the Fender Strat over my poor Gibson copy from years ago.
Since I got the EPI a few months ago, I've been chasing that sound again so I will defo give these settings a bash.
I have been trying to get the tone with the Treble Pickup setting on the EPI and my downfal is obviously EQ. I've been running GAIN full with far less mid and too much bass going on your advice.
I do have a Marshall 8080 Valvestate but MIC'ing is a pain in the backside, not to mention LOUD in a wee house like mine! I will try your settings - I am now using Amplitube as well as the VAMP (Fantastic Amplitube by the way) and I am sur there is a JCM800 on there. I will give it a go and let you know.
I've had some further sucess using my Strat and some settings similar to Keith Richards but with more gain on Amplitube. I think the sound issues I have may also have something to do with the pickups on the EPI? Dunno as I have never owned a Gibson Les Paul but its either that or my settings..
We'll soon find out.
Thanks for your input tho...I'll let you know how I get on.
Cheers.
Coco.
Apr 25, 2004 02:46 pm I suggest that you mic the guitar rather than rely on the pickup. You should use a bright microphone and put it in one of several places:
1- At the bottom of the hole, pointed up to the strings about an inch away from the guitar.
2- About three inches above the hole, but a foot to the right (guitarist perspective) and seven inches away from the guitar. Point the mic to the strings.
3- Listen (or have a friend listen) and walk around the guitar, moving your head in and out & up and down. Where it sounds good, PUT THE MIC!
For more Tips and Opinions, as well as a Starving Artist Offer go to BruceAMiller.us
Apr 27, 2004 09:59 pm Excelant tips Bruce.
Also, checked out your site, very nice and lots of usefull info.
I would like to welcome you to HRC and hope you enjoy your stay.
Apr 28, 2004 06:56 am Thanks guys...
I've been side tracked from my accoustic recordings lately as I've been inspired back to the Rockier tunes Im working on.
I've kind nailed a double tracked guitar sound with this (slight tangent here I know) - I have a Rolling Stones Richards sound with more gain and Queen Brian May sound with more reverb - panned left and right - have a listen to the gtr sound on this and tell me your thoughts (listen to Dead Flowers at Hi-Fi or download).
www.soundclick.com/bands/6/deadflowersmusic.htm
I think the sound is not quite perfect but a MILLION times better than the sound I was getting a month or so ago! Drew...thanks for your EQ/Amp settings input...I've tried some of these and will be bashing my next rhythm gtr track out using a similar setup!
Cheers guys...
Coco.
P.S. I WILL get this accoustic recorded and when I do, I'll let y'all know how I go. Ta again.
Apr 29, 2004 06:10 pm coco, that is like hearing Mott the Hoople meets The Stones meets a young George Harrison. Or something like that. I gotta listen again later. That is the best remake of that tune I have heard in a long time. We used to cover that tune in the 70's but not like that. You got the drum feel down to perfection, and the guitar rythhm was straight up tasty!
Like said, I gotta listen to that cranked up but on first listen it sounded very kool.
cheers
Apr 29, 2004 07:34 pm Many thanks Noize!
Its good to get some positive feedback on the actual sound itself which has been a problem for me for the last couple of months.
I love the drums on this track and Im getting to love the gtrs!! Im gonna use this formula for my next track (an original composition) which has the best drum track I've ever written!!
Anyways...thanks for your input - appreciate you taking the time to listen.
Cheers...
Coco.
May 03, 2004 01:37 pm Coco- glad it helped, mate. Feel free to drop me an e-mail if you have any guitar-specific questions @ [email protected]. I'm more-or-less a newbie to recording in general, but I'm a guitarist and I've spent a LOT of time working ong ettign good guitar soudns on tape, and have gotten to pick the brains of some very good players/producers, so hopefully i can contribute here a bit in that respect.
-D
May 03, 2004 04:35 pm Thanks for that Drew - Appreciate the offer for help!
I too am primarily a guitarist. I've been playing lead now for about 10 years but the tones I am looking for now are using plugins and my VAMP2 - I no longer humph the big Marshall up and down the stairs!! Sod that for a game of soldiers!! Hehehee...
But aye - you can rest assured I'll give ya a shout when Im next recording some heavier guitar stuff - I like to mess with different tones.
I've found ampltitube - the best VST plugin money can buy for a guitarist!! Many amps - all very cool...man - its better than my VAMP!!
Cheers my friend - I'll be in touch!
Coco.
May 03, 2004 04:47 pm I have a J-station I screw with a bit, but I mostly just use it for really weird overdubs- My TSL is in my bedroom, which is coincidentally the room I record in, so... ;) Acoustically, I'm sure it's shyte, but that matters very little for close micing, so it'll do for now. And there's nothing quite like a real amp...
But the effects section on the J-station's pretty fun. :)
-D
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