Using Plug Ins Sonar Console & Delta 44
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Posted on Mar 03, 2004 06:24 am
cocofromscotland
Hello!
Member Since: Jan 12, 2004
Hi Folks
I am back again after a "getting to know you/getting irritated with you" period with my new Delta 44 soundcard.
I have now (almost) got the jist of this card and the mixer console as well as trying to intergrate this with Sonar 2.2 - I am getting there.
However, I have come across a problem, for which I hope one of you guys has had and knows the answer to!
Basically, I set all the configurations (mixer for Delta and Sonar) to record at 96000 24 bit. I had thought - the higher the better. I am using ASIO drivers (again, I assumed this was best) and the latency was greeatt! NO more badly syncd music!
Until I went to add plug ins to the console (i.e. Graphic EQ etc). When I add these and try to tweak as I listen (i.e. I put them in the console view and tweak) the sound goes all jumpy and I cant listen. I kind off sounds like a videotape or cassette on hi speed dub type sound! i.e. twice as fast but all gargled!!!
Anybody have experience of this at all! Just, if its to do with having settings at 24bit 96,000 I'm no too please as I got that card to get better sound - no to have to reduce back to the same level as ma old one just to use plug ins in a non destructive fashion before I apply them to the track!
Anyway guys - as ever, any help is always appreciated. I tell yi, I thought I was learning so much until I got another sound card (which I really do like by the way) but in this transitional learning phase, I feel like I'm back at square one! Still..I'll get there.
Cheers folks..
Coco.
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Mar 03, 2004 06:55 am It could be partly due to your processor, while 2.2 gHz is a good speed, the Celeron version from Intel is kinda like their low-cost (translate low-end) processor which runs on a much slower bus speed that authentic P4's.
yes, ASIO is your best bet, but in the name of troubleshooting, you may wanna drop your recording back to 24-bit/44.1k samplerate and see if that helps...if not, try 16-bit/44.1k. Higher sample rates can put a very large strain on the system...so give that a try.
And remember, CD standard is 16-bit/44.1 anyway...so regardless what you record it, when burning a red-book standard CD it will wind up 16/44.1 in the end...
Mar 03, 2004 07:16 am Thanks for that reply. That's kind of what I suspected but its good to know Im not doing it ALL wrong!!
I had considered processor etc and the fact that the card is sharing an IRQ!! Although it shouldn't matter, I think it may be affecting things but I can get by with this...
One further querry tho - If I drop back a bit as suggested (which I will defo try) and this fixes the problem, will my audio quality be the same as it was with the old card (internal rubbish with MME drivers). Or will the actual quality of the card itself still improve my recordings especially if I record at say 44.1 and 24 bit?? I may be a bit niaeve here, its just so I know how much I can sacrifice for ease of using plug ins!!
Also, supposing I dropped back to 44.1 16 bit, would this sound the SAME as my old card (assuming all other factors remain unchanged) or would it still be better as I'm using ASIO drivers.
I've defo noticed the difference in latency tho!!! My recordings were always "off" and I thought it was my playing (recording later on at night etc) but it was obviously the old card with some SCARY latency figure! Dunno what it was but my guitar parts were WELL off at times and try as I may, I never got it any better!
Anyway DB - thanks for the info. As ever, your knowledge is superb.
Cheers
Coco.
Mar 03, 2004 07:28 am Your sound quality will still be better as the Delta has better A/D convertors (analog to digital) and a MUCH better sound will get through. Not to worry, many people here record in 24/44.1 and get sreat sound. I record in 24-bit but I keep the samplerate at 44.1 because of the system load, and because bitrates can convert down to CD standard pretty well, but samplerates sometime convert less gracefully. Try 24-bit 44.1 and you WILL be happy...at least MUCH more happy than with the onboard card. The bit and sample rates are not the only factor in play when it comes to sound quality. the comonenets of the card play a role too, such as the chipset being used on the card, the A/D convertors and more right down to the circuit board itself. The Delta, probably even at 16-bit/22k would sound better, or at least as good as the onboard card.
Mar 03, 2004 07:45 am Thanks for all this good stuff DB ... VERY much appreciated! I'll try this change to the settings tonight and see how the processor copes.
With a bit of luck, I'll be able to use my plugins as you say and still maintain the quality.
I thought there had to be more to it than my simplistic view of sample rates etc so thanks for that info - much appreciated.
I am currently re-recording EVERYTHING I have done in the last 3 months (not a lot really but I'm doing it anyway) as I think I'll see the benefits!!
So..thansk for you help again..
Cheers...
Coco.
Mar 04, 2004 06:13 am Thanks for the info DB. That worked a treat...
Now, for another (and final I hope) question on this matter.
I am now recording at 44.1 & 24 bit. I use Sony Sound Forge 7 for all my mastering needs - a great program. I normally use the Wave Hammer feature and use 16 Bit Master preset for all my finalsing of songs.
Will this reduce audio quality for my 24 bit recording or do you think, it will just work to the normal standard for 16 bit - i.e. do its maximising etc without losing any 24bit quality?
Cheers
Coco.
Mar 04, 2004 07:15 am it's would be best to run any processing at 24-bit, these really can get into some very technical areas...it could get ugly.
Lets use reverb as an basic example for the sake of explination. When you apply reverb to your audio, the computer does a rediculas amount of mathmatical calculations to determine the reverbs affect to the sound, while doing all those calculations the wave file gets mucked up. The math always leaves behind decimals of numbers. The application throws away those numbers and just uses the round, integer numbers.
In doing this, it kinda bastardizes the file making it kinda choppy and such, which is whether dithering comes into play, smoothing out the choppiness by rerounding those square edges left by the rounding process. This technically makes 16-bit not actually 16-bit but a dithered, kinda mucked up 16-bit file. Therefore, keeping everything at 24-bit gives the PC more room for processing and dithering and the final product can wind up being a more real higher quality 16 bit CD audio file.
OK, this was a rather extreme example for the sake of visualization, but I thinkit explains it somewhat...
