small room, drum micing
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Posted on Jan 19, 2004 08:31 pm
drayburn
Emerson's Transparent Eyeball
Member Since: Jan 19, 2004
I currently have drums set up in a small room (8x13) and am having problems with the cymbals in the overhead mics. They are having phase or comb filtering problems even in mono (let alone stereo, which I haven't attempted). I've tried all sorts of positions, close, far away, above, in front, and I have all the usual quick fixes for problem rooms- carpet, blankets on the walls, etc. It doesn't matter which mics I try to use, though for the record I'm trying to stick with two Oktava MK012's. It's driving me a little crazy. Any suggestions?
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Jan 19, 2004 09:23 pm That's why drum booths were never a good idea. Can you get the drums into a bigger room? That would be the best idea, although I know it's not always possible depending on your situation. If the cybols are really sloppy maybe tighten them down more. I'm just thinking to limit some of their movement.... as long as it doesn't kill the sound you are going for. They can be a real problem if you can't get the mics high enough, as they are constantly chaging distance in realatioship to the mic or mics when they are hit. 8x13 is a pretty small area. How high is the ceiling? I still think the best solution would be a bigger area.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jan 19, 2004 09:38 pm Are the two overheads going to two seperate tracks? I have on occasion run into some phase problems when running two overheads into a single track. Just a thought. Also, have you tried very slight adjustments in the distance between the mics, and I do mean slight? I can sometimes take a very long time to get them into a postition were you get a good signal from both.
Jan 19, 2004 10:13 pm I pulled out one of my books on acoustics, and here is what men far wiser than I say:
"Rooms smaller than 1500 cubic feet are subject to insurmountable room mode problems and should be avoided for quality recording studios and control rooms".
Noize is right and maybe you can get your cybal problem ironed out. But, you will still have problems in such a small room. If the ceiling is 8' as well your are going to have standing waves build up all over the place.
I used to record in a small area like that. I could never get it sounding as good as I thought it should sound. I moved to a bigger room and my recordings improved dramitacally. Same mics, equipment and techniques, but the room made a big difference.
Just a thought.
drayburnEmerson's Transparent EyeballMember
Since: Jan 19, 2004
Jan 20, 2004 02:19 pm Thanks for the advice... it does seem that the problem fades or gets worse depending on how hard I hit the cymbals, so maybe tightening them down some will help. however, I get these problems only running ONE mic, so the "standing waves are probably the issue in such a small space- too bad it's the room in the house that's easiest to soundproof (a storage room in the basement). If I have to, I'll just move the drums to another part of the basement and come to some kind of agreement with my family.My boy won't mind, but my wife...
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jan 20, 2004 09:33 pm I am lucky that I have two boys who love the recording part of it, and a wife who doesnt mind the house becoming a loud place. The neighbors on the other hand get real interested in it. Our new neighbor was only in their house for two days before the last band was in here, and they were a very heavy loud band. Needless to say their sons were over here peeking in the windows and inviting their friends to hurry and come listen.
But indeed you may have to make a deal with the wife and kids to get a bit of use from a loarger room. Tell them its only temporary... insanity.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Jan 23, 2004 12:09 am Drayburn,
You are on the right track with the "standing wave" asessment. In recording that concept will usually be refered to as "critical distance". That is the distance away from the sound source where the reflected sound equals the source sound. Omni patterned mics can be placed up to 1/3 critical distance from source and cardoid 1/2 critical distance; rule of thumb. In a small room such as you are using the resulting mic distance is very short. Often times so short that you are incurring proximity effect or loss of periferial sound. Couple that with the huge wavelengths of the kick and bottom tom which are folding back on themselves in a room of that size and you have some "sizable" problems. If the room is a parallel-0-gram, add bucu more problems per focusing of waves per angle of incidence and the corner bass traps. Rather than treating walls with blankets and such, you might try close to mic baffels. I have had some measure of success using small absorbant panels close to the mics to absorbe reflected sound. But insurmountable is probably the best overall term as there is nothing like ample space.
