"Requirements" for Radio Songs

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sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member Since: Aug 05, 2003

I was wondering if someone could share with me the unwritten "requirements" for a good radio song candidate... I've heard that songs shouldn't more than 4 minutes in length - what else?

FYI, this is just a little research for a lyrical song idea I'm kicking around.

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I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003

Dec 19, 2003 12:50 pm

I've read that they should be kept between 3 and 3 1/2 minutes long, and usually follow the traditional 3 verse format.

After some digging, I found this site that links to lots of articles that I thought were interesting: www.lyricist.com/

Contributor
Since: Dec 30, 2002

Dec 19, 2003 01:29 pm

keep it as mono friendly as possible.

sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2003

Dec 19, 2003 01:49 pm

oh, no zooming roto tom solos, eh? heh heh heh My old drummer was fond of those, and he was our acting recording engineer.

fyi, the reason why I'm doing "research" for lyrics is because it's a set of satirical lyrics that poke fun at the limited types of music that are allowed on the air today.

Frisco's Most Underrated
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003

Dec 19, 2003 02:10 pm

"generic clear channel,
no local music,
played out soundin'
power abusin'"

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003

Dec 19, 2003 02:19 pm

I think that if you basically assume that everybody who will ever listen to your song is a complete and total idiot, then you'll be on the right course.

Assume that nobody is perceptive enough to notice subtlety, patient enough to endure prolonged development, sensitive enough to care what you think, smart enough to understand outside references, enlightened enough to put up with nonstandard subject matter, or unique enough to have come up with something better. Yup, I think that pretty much covers the technique for writing songs that will sell or get lots of radio airplay.

Oh, and if you make a video to accompany the song, be sure to include lots of boobies. America likes boobies.

sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2003

Dec 19, 2003 02:24 pm

heh heh coolo I like that...


"My name is...

Clearchannel communications
all across the nation
feel da powah of my stations
3 minute songs no you can't be wrong
homogenize the sound of every song"

sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2003

Dec 19, 2003 02:29 pm

Tadpui, that last comment was depressing, insulting, and richly deserved. There has to be a better way to allow musical ideas to reproduce themselves than by wrapping what passes for human brains around them.

But on the other hand, I really like boobies. Videos should have more boobies. In fact, many videos would be greatly improved if they had nothing but boobies on screen, all the time. They could, y'know, jiggle with the beat or something.

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002

Dec 19, 2003 02:53 pm

Yup,
If your gonna make a hit
Ya gotta make it fit
And cut it down
to three oh five.

Used to be NPR affiliates would are a couple shows a week featuring local and or obscure musicians. But NPR is changing too. Bucks.

Sell a million and your song will be on every ten minutes. The machanics at the shop listen to a top country station. "Cowboys like us" every 15 minutes. And they sing along every time.

People who are not artists want to hear what they are used to and comfortable with. New but not too new. Definately not anything that takes any attention to listen to. Background.

As Jues says, it must play well through an ear bud. And of course sell a lot of cola, beer, pizza, fitness club subscriptions, oil changes, etc.

People are becoming pretty numb to music. It is simply everywhere. Every store, every hold button, the tube, the parking lot, the resteraunt, yada, yada. It's become something to "tune out".

And of course, as per above, boobies. Lots and lots of those. That's the other thing the mechanics can always tell me. The size of the singer's boobies. Can't remember if she played an instrument or not, just boobies.

There ya go! Find a sound combination that would make the world subconsciously picture boobies and no other song would ever be played again! Just yours!

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Dec 19, 2003 02:59 pm

lots of very cynical people out there it appears...ya know, every know and then somebody doesn't worry about radio friendly and it winds up starting a new trend that becomes radio friendly...

sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2003

Dec 19, 2003 03:28 pm

Well, db, we live in a society that has achieved a culture where music flows like water, is free as air, and has just as much substance as either. Every drop flows into every other, and it doesn't matter which glassful you drink because it all pees into same river of meaningless commerce. It's new free improved extreme slices of bland heaven for every joe and sally 6-pack and it comes with a limited time offer to cash in your individuality for trinkets and status symbols.
No, I'm not a cynic, I'm just maladjusted and verbose. :)

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003

Dec 19, 2003 03:34 pm

Oh, I have a sudden urge to listen to "Step Right Up" from Tom Waits. :-)

"That's right, it filets, it chops
It dices, slices, never stops
lasts a lifetime, mows your lawn
And it mows your lawn
and it picks up the kids from school
It gets rid of unwanted facial hair
it gets rid of embarrassing age spots
It delivers a pizza
and it lengthens, and it strengthens
And it finds that slipper that's been at large
under the chaise longe for several weeks
And it plays a mean Rhythm Master
It makes excuses for unwanted lipstick on your collar
And it's only a dollar, step right up
it's only a dollar, step right up"

Yeah, I'm cynical about top 40 radio. It's not all bad, but it definitely comes from a different perspective than other music. It's a commodity, meant to make money. It's not art to me.

Oh, and I hope I didn't sound rude above, I was just ranting.

sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2003

Dec 19, 2003 03:38 pm

"Oh, and I hope I didn't sound rude above, I was just ranting..."

Rude? As you climb down from your soapbox, please notice that of the small number of individuals paying attention, I'm one of them, and I'm clapping. You hit the nail on the head, no need to apologize. Nobody on this board should take offense - people that write music at least think about music and don't suck it up like an apathetic sponge tossed into a random puddle. :)

You know, those lyrics are really funny. I just placed a hold online on three Waits albums from the library, I've been wanting to check him out for years but always forget to. Thanks for the reminder!

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Dec 19, 2003 03:54 pm

Well, many people seem to forget that all that top 40 stuff you all seem to hate IS written by somebody who probably does consider it art whether you like it or not.

Just because it is written to appeal to a certain crowd doesn't make it less of an art. Hell, I wish I had enough talent in my vision to be able to write very targetted and methodically like that, I am stuck with writting stuff that pops into my head without regard for content, audience, genre or anything like that.

I am not a crook's head
Member
Since: Mar 14, 2003

Dec 19, 2003 04:01 pm

Nice! Definitely check out "Nighthawks at the Diner" and "Small Change". The former is live, and contains just as much gin-fueled dialogue and punch lines as it does music. The latter is the first of his albums that display his "gargling hot asphalt" vocal stylings.

And what I love about both of those albums: they're both anti-pop. I think Frito Lay tried to lift "Step Right Up" from him and they were subsequently sued. That's as close to commercial success that either album enjoyed. He started singing like that because he didn't want to make hits. He wanted to make music. (Ooh, nice segue, if I don't say so myself!)

sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2003

Dec 19, 2003 04:06 pm

DB - You have a good point...

I'm not saying it's not art. I'm saying it's not for me. Everything from Top 40 to John McLaughlin to the patterning on a chainlink fence to a recording of a bunch of 7 year olds playing recorders in Music class can be art. It does sometimes take an amazing talent to write music to appeal to so many levels of society. That does not mean that what is produced is considered to be worth listening to by all members of society. It also does not mean that the art produced is great - just popular. Marketing a product well takes phenomonal skill - people who does it right can make lots of money. People who do it poorly, or have an unpopular product, end up recording music in a closet. Like me. :)

There's plenty of room in the world for mass-produced art, it'll have a permanent place on the shelf at Wal-Mart between the latest winterwear and the automotive department. But I do occasionally assert my right to opine that the department store winterwear, the Walmart automotive department, and Britney Spears are all equally compelling and inspiring. Pop music is as pop music does. Is it art? Sure, why not! Is is great? Welllll.... not to me. :)

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002

Dec 19, 2003 04:26 pm

Yes dB, you know you are correct. It is all about connectivity. The music that makes it, Hype, withstanding, is the music that speaks the mind of the public. Their feelings, moode, needs, wants.... But the other side of the coin is not necessaraly cynicism. The difference between work and play is that work is play that we would rather not do. I think as noted here play is more creative. Work has a tendency to be confined. As Noise wrote in one of his rants. "We're beer salesmen". Regardless of how we do it we have to have a day job. Maybe that's churning out the next header on the top forty. In the evening we can practice our art and create something of us. And of course there is that rare occurance when the two colide. Iceing.

sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2003

Dec 19, 2003 04:39 pm

Some great points and interesting tangents here... uh, can anyone else give me an "unspoken rule" of pop music? So far I've got that it has to be <4 minutes, use small words, "mono-friendly", follow a 3 verse format, I know from experience that it's usually a love song.... what else ya got for me? :)

sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2003

Dec 19, 2003 04:44 pm

by the way... db and others... there are actually songs that qualify as pop music that I have liked over the years... most recently "drops of jupiter" comes to mind - liked that one til I found it was being fed to me intravenously every 10 minutes on every station - some red hot chili peppers, cake's "going the distance" (i bought the cd - bad musicians, interesting songwriters), presidents of the usa's "peaches" (bought that one too, my wife and I sing "peaches" to my son when he gets spoonfed peaches, hahaha, heck I sing that one at karaoke)... can't think of others at the moment but I'm not just completely closed-minded to anything with a pop label

Bane of All Existence
Member
Since: Mar 27, 2003

Dec 19, 2003 05:32 pm

apparently it's good to have 16 bars of intro music before the vocals begin (so the DJs can talk over your music), maybe some I IV V progressions in there, some variations on intro/verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus/chorus/outro, but most of all, you need major label support to "promote" your "single" through the payola radio system. like we've heard a bunch of times before, the era of disc jockeys choosing which songs they want to play are long gone. step-wise melodies too. don't try to change things. we fear change.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Dec 19, 2003 05:52 pm

Indeed it is sad that the racio stations that brave the new are being bought up by the dozen. There are still a few low wattage stations out there that will play the obscure or new tune by local or unheard artists. The one thing we forget is that we belong to a community here that is all about promoting the independant artist as it were. Now I know that sounds wierd, but think about it for a minute. I kept my self locked up for years, tryint not to write pop tunes, but toured with two bands that had national radio airplay. Only one tune off each of the albums ever made the radio, but that isthey way it was and always will be. The music I truly wanted to and did write never really made the radio, but did have an audiance. When I discovered the internet and its use for getting my music out there, it got me jobs I never would have gotten before. It may seem slow going, but if you put youre music out there and keep pushing it, and by that I mean go to every music forum you can find and point them to your music, which is hopefully posted here. And yes that is a shameless promo for HRC! Sooner or later they will come. When mp3.com first came up I put up several of my older fusion type tunes and made it to the top of the playlist with several of them, that was all I could ask for as I didnt have an album to sell or even a single at that time. It did however get me several jobs arranging music for people, scoring small films and commercials. So it wasnt all bad.

You can still pursue the radio thing, and no there is really not much else magic to the formula other then making it easy for the listener to digest. Best bet is to pick a genre and aim for the target market, and there really are only a few to choose from.

I am thankfull that we got a smooth jazz station back in this town, although they are not what the old station of that format was, but then again it is a differant time. I would love to take a crack at getting some airplay on that staion, but they are pretty well stuck on national well known acts. And as of yet they dont have a new artist, or local artist show on that station.

What Im trying to say, is play how and what you play best, without thinking about what is going to happen or not. I have found many aritist music that I never would have heard if it wasnt for the internet, so take the advice with a grain of salt, push yourself out there to be heard, and soon they will come. I know it sounds like a stretch, but maybe if we all work together to an end it might just work.

I play the tunes that people on this site do for everyone I can get to listen. Maybe they like, maybe they dont. But they inturn spread the word and that is what will get your music out there, spreading the word, and you know as well as I do, this world wide web thing is really bigger then any radio station, (or it soon will be) in the world.

I could keep going but I wont bore everyone to tears.

Peace

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003

Dec 20, 2003 12:12 am

i don't know what i think about all this anymore, but here are some thought-viruses i've caught on this topic. i take them with a grain of salt. one can probably learn a lot from radio, even bad radio.

requirements for airplay:

1. make the melody hummable! ideally, the chorus is a meme that gets stuck in your head whether you want it there or not.

1.5. don't worry about rule #1. just go ahead and make your melody wander around aimlessly with no goal, drama, destination, or tension.

2. in the modern rock/alternacrap genres, make sure to use the quiet verse/loud chorus dynamic. alternate between them. make the bridge come just when you expect.

3. try to stay in 4/4 time. make the chord changes happen at the bar divisions. the chorus should be a simple turnaround.

4. for the alternacrap genres, make sure that your song's theme expresses your personal and very private (generic) existential pain: your goal is to flash the world while (secretly) wearing flesh-colored long underwear. avoid making a truly personal artistic statement. but also, remember to avoid inventing an alternate, interesting personality for yourself which you could use as a vehicle for inventive art. eschew creativity. use cliches. be safe. strive to be an opaque non-entity. say nothing.

5. make the vocals 'breathy.' most people will take this to mean you're being passionate and won't perceive it as a completely premeditated effect that adds a bit of false sentimentality to the already hackneyed theme. remember, don't put yourself in the recording; put yourself aping something you heard someone else doing.

6. avoid interesting chords.

7. compress the hell out of the final mix, squashing the aforementioned 'dynamics' down so they lose all impact and take on thier new role: a cue to help you realize that this is now the chorus.

8. are you and your band a marketable, prefabricated archetype? become one!

9. rinse, repeat.

Member
Since: Jul 02, 2003

Dec 20, 2003 12:18 am

I'm not as cynical as many seem to be about today's music. Rock is doing what it has since the 50's get louder, harder, and do whatever it takes to try and make the parents hate it, though I do believe it's making a swing back toward the more melodic side of things. <G> Pop keeps becoming more bland, and country is still country with a little bit more oomph to it these days, but still playing it safe.

One probably has a greater chance today of "making it" than ever before, but even with that there is still only so much room for "stars" so still, few will ever make it big. But with the internet someone who has the drive, ambition, and perseverance has a good chance be it with a major, indie, or no label to do what most artists want.. #1 get there music heard and #2 possibly make a living doing it. :)

Radio friendly means what it always has, write music that people want to hear based on your chosen genre, but it generally also means writing for the younger generation. Music rarely changes overnight, so if you want to be commercial then you'd better write commercial, then if your popular you can try to lead them in a new direction, unless of course your the next "Beatles", but hey even they had to struggle to get there. <G>

Dan

Member
Since: Jan 18, 2003

Dec 20, 2003 05:59 pm

i'm cynical about it, but i can't help but notice that most of my songs seem to follow a lot of these radio rules. i like a good, tight, even [somewhat]predictable structure, as long as other elements in the song are energetic or unusual. nirvana was the best at that. staying accessible but not coming across as prefab or whimpy. of course, i like experiementation and invention, too. OK computer is my model for taking rock in that direction. it's not really something you'd want to copy, though. but that's a good album for listening to while thinking about different ways to be outside of the box.


Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002

Dec 21, 2003 12:53 pm

Ok, An admission. I have decided that to a point I and "Detroitized". Just landed last night at my daughter's in Kansas. From St. Louis to Kansas I found a lot of stations that where playing.... now don't freek out.... MUSIC!

Found a bunch of the afformentioned "low wattage" stations with a real variety.

I guess I need to move. Detroit has one Genre.. Ok, I wont name it, but you get the point. I guess I am a little sheltered.

Sure was a nice change however!

Member
Since: Jan 08, 2003

Dec 21, 2003 01:07 pm

Actual requirements for real radio:

Be signed by a label that's friendly with the network (or owns the network), or submit 'payola' to the powers that be.

Any 'real' independent stations will play what they want, and usually the only guideline is length, we typically like under 5 minutes.

W.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Dec 21, 2003 06:50 pm

Make a list and check it twice, those rare stations are not naughty but nice. I wish we had more like that up here. The last of the bigger ones was Rev 105 - Revolution Radio. They played what they wanted when thye wanted to. They had a local artist show that aired everyday, and guess when it aired, not at midnite or some ungodly hour, it was in the middle of the day. Sometimes it was on at rush hours, and they always played local and unkown stuff, during prime time spots reserved on the larger staions for top 40 artists only.

But the end came too soon for them as their parent company decided to turn them into, you guessed it, top 40 radio friendly whatever. Now, they are called Drive 105 and they do promote themselves as alternative radio, which they are sometimes, well ok about 45 minutes out of the day. But it is the closest thing we have here to anything relatively brave, other then the low watt stations I mentioned earlier in this post.

Get some of those call letters for some of those stations Walt, and maybe some might have web broadcasting sites. That is the only way I get my new radio fix these days. Scan the web for live radio station broadcasts of the good stuff. That and searching all the music sites that have a radio like streamer.

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Dec 21, 2003 06:56 pm

Hey Noize, my last real band was on REV 105 a few times...the only airplay we ever got... :-)

That was a kickin station.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Dec 21, 2003 07:02 pm

Ya, I knew that and should have mentioned that. I wish someone would get a station like them going again. I miss all those people from that station. I think Brian Oak is the only one left working now in the twins cities. Pitty, all those people were really into the independant artists from around the world, not just here. Maybe Ill get lucky and win the lottery, then I can start my own radio station.

Frisco's Most Underrated
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003

Dec 21, 2003 08:34 pm

Hmmm, one of my long term goals is to own a radio station here in the bay area (I also want to own the GS Warriors).

There is a program called the Next Big Thing on KALX (90.7 FM), the student run, University of California, Berkeley radio station that only plays demo tapes and CDRs. They will not play it if it is a commercial release (even independent). Here's the link. www.geocities.com/marshallstax/nbtintro.html

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002

Dec 22, 2003 12:00 am

You got it Noise. I will do some digging and get back. I have heard everything from an R&B version of Come together, to private label single release jazz tunes by local artists. The only bummer to me is that traveling through I only have about a 45 minute window for each station per broadcast range. But you better believe I'm diggin it while I'm out here! A definate musical Christmas. We had 13 folks drop by tonight and half of them brought instruments. Everybody sang or played, except the one year old, he just danced and clapped. I even dug out the accordian for a couple of songs. My daughters remember that from when they could only dance.

What a breath of fresh air!

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Dec 22, 2003 07:00 pm

Speaking of breath of fresh air, I heard a new version of Take 5 today, its by a band called X1. I had not heard of them until today. Now I gotta go find more of their stuff as it is a very well done version of the old Brubeck tune.

Chief Cook and Bottle Washer
Member
Since: May 10, 2002

Dec 22, 2003 11:53 pm

X1, Got it! Will look it up. Take 5 is not the easiest piece to do well. Don't ya just love it. Swear I gotta move or find a different way to listen, eg. web, satalite, something.

sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2003

Dec 23, 2003 07:31 am

I love Take 5. It's one of my all-time favorite songs. Someday I may cover that one myself, with guitars, bass, and of course the inevitable TCB hand drum accompaniment.... :) Not a big fan of Brubeck, but I love that one and Blue Rondo Turk.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Dec 23, 2003 07:21 pm

Ive done six differant versions of that tune over the years. It is one of my favorites as well. I am a medium fan of Brubeck, not real heavy into his stuff, but enough to have invested in all his stuff on vinyl as well as CD. I have sampled off his vinyl stuff for years.

sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2003

Dec 24, 2003 07:12 am

Dude, you keep talking about about this cool stuff you've done, like Take 5 and some fusion stuff that you mentioned a while back - when do we get to hear this? I'd love to get a chance to hear it. Post, post! :)

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Dec 25, 2003 08:54 pm

Most of my old stuff is stored on 1 gig Sparq discs. I just need to get off my lazy buttocks and install the new drivers for XP I found to use it and then transfer the stuff over.

I think I still have one of the Take 5 sequances on HD so maybe Ill pull it up and redo it to mp3. I was going to put up some tottally digital christmass tunes and got sidetracked. Maybe Ill shoot them up this weekend and ya can have at them untill I get the other stuff dug out.

Would that satiate the beast for the moment? I promise they'll be up by 2:00PM central tommorrow.

sloppy dice, drinks twice
Member
Since: Aug 05, 2003

Dec 26, 2003 07:18 am

grrrrrr.... Mongo like candy...

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Dec 26, 2003 06:23 pm

OK TC the day got a little long here. Ill be converting them to mp3 shortly and Ill post the link to them in this post.

Member
Since: Jan 03, 2004

Jan 05, 2004 04:07 am

Ok, I am going to use this thread as a means by which to reveal how naive and idealistic I am (which will probably make atleast a few of the more experienced among you chuckle, so I do this with no small degree of trepidation) lol.

This isn't to agree or dissagree with anyone's prior opinions with respect to the art vs. product debate. I respect everyone's views and I'm new here so this is just me rambling.

I have a sort of strange (or different atleast) perspective of certain things compared to some people. It's sort of like when my friend Don from Modesto came up to visit once. The first thing he said was "holy crap this apartment is so tiny! And you've got NO furniture!" lmao.

Now, since I grew up in and out of homeless shelters and so forth, living in a pretty nice two bedroom apartment across the street from Golden Gate Park, is pretty damn cool. But there are things others take for granted that never even crossed my mind before I was made aware of their commonality and popularity. Central air and heat for instance. Lol.

Likewise, my definition of "success" differs from most peoples' ideal. My idea of success is one person being genuinely moved, or helped in some small way, by a song. To me, that one person is worth more than all the tea in China so to speak. Even back when I was just messing around with a tascam porta 3 (lol) years and years and years ago, once in a great while, someone would IM me and tell me that a crappy horribly recorded song had effected them in some way. sometimes the profundity with which they articulated this really shocked me. I mean, who am I y'know?

Those seemingly insignifigant events happened. They were real. They were brief, sure, and maybe that person won't even ever think of that song again as long as they live. But on that day, in that moment, I felt like I mattered. I felt like something I had to say made a connection with a real human being like myself. I felt "successful." I guess I was between 12 and 15 then. But I still feel exactly the same way about my music, and for that matter, music in general.

I understand and completely respect that people have to put food on the table. And I understand and respect that for some, marketing and genre-specific composition is the name of the game. But personally, I'd rather go back to being homeless than do that. Because no nicer apartment or comfortable furniture can ever have as much value for me, personally, as an experience or encounter of the sort I mentioned.

I do think about and carefully consider what it is I say, and how I say it. I take a long time to focus the aim and the direction of a song. But not for the purpose of enticing a particular group or organization. I just want what I'm saying to be as exact a representation of whatever it orignated from within me as possible.
I love music. I know we all do. and I know that phrase has become a cliche. But when I say it, I mean I love it like I love my (soon to be) wife. If I were in an accident, and couldn't communicate, and my hands were gone, or they wanted her to give them consent to amputate my hands or arms to save my life...she has instructions not to let them, or to have them pull the plug if my hands are gone. I'd rather die. I mean that 100%

I'm weird. Lol. It isn't uncommon for me to cry while playing. Let alone singing. This is all I want to do. Even if no one ever hears it, or likes it, this is it for me. I even dream about it almost every night. I've gotten some of my most cherished songs from dreams infact. Lol.

As far as other peoples' music, I love it. All of it. The music itself, I will listen to anything. There's something in every song for me to find pleasing at the least, or moving at best. It just requires a little empathy. I don't believe in genres, atleast not as they apply to my listening tastes. I'll listen to anything, especially if they have something real to say.

I will say however, that while I respect their views and their right to do so, I don't respect, as a musician, someone making music SOLEY for the purpose of selling big, earning as much money as possible, at the expense of any and all expression, no matter how shallow, they might have otherwise achieved. Such people are usually very talented individuals, there's no question about that. Musically, they even do some impressive things at times (well...when it's actually them doing it lol...otherwise it's the sound engineers or other musicians whom I applaud). I just feel it is a waste of talent, and a waste of life frankly, to pursue wealth and popularity exclusively, with no regard whatsoever to what you realy feel or wish to say. That's not to say that just as music for music's sake, I don't appreciate it though. I just wouldn't buy it. But at the same time, I am very careful not to jump to conclusions just because a song sounds "pop." I go online and investigate and research the artist(s) and find out where they're coming from. That matters to me more than what the song sounds like. Because in my weird case, I can really get into any kind of music.

So anyhow, there's my philosophical stance.

My technical stance isn't very broad. I'll listen to anything, sonically speaking.

The only thing that gets to me a little at times, is when (and this is real popular right now) a fuzz tone is squashed to the point that it's just what I like to call "melodic static" lol. I like the raw, dynamic, messy, imperfect fuzz tones of yore lol. However, just as with the musician, context matters. So it depends. If it is there for a reason, and not just to improve it's radio-friendliness, then I can dig it. (Ok it's 2004 and I just said "dig it." That should tell you something. Lmao).

so anyhow, there's my first "who I am" post, so all the nice people who have helped me so much over the last few days will know (if they care lol) who they are talking to.

This was very nerveracking and scary to do, as a comparatively inexperienced musician, and someone new to the board, but I love this thread and really wanted to reply to it.

Thanks for listening to my rant, to those who did. :)

*ben hides in bed now* lol

Administrator
Since: Apr 03, 2002

Jan 05, 2004 04:49 am

Interesting story to say the least. And from an idealistic standpoint I agree, however, the media really doesn't care if it "affects anyone" or the lyrics mean anything or have an impact.

That isn't to belittle your standpoint, most musicians take their music more seriously than anyone else does, to most everyone else it's a matter of whether it's pleasing to their ears or not and that is that.

To radio stations, whether any of the "rules" quoted in this thread apply or not, it's about if it can sell or not.

Member
Since: Jan 03, 2004

Jan 05, 2004 05:30 am

Yeah. I realized very quickly that I had to make a choice between being heard by more people, and compromising, or settling for a very VERY small (but meaningful to me) listenership.

Thank goodness for the internet because the choice I made is probably apparent from my post above lol. I gave up the notion of "going anywhere" with my music long ago. It is wherever it is y'know? To me, 50 people is alot. Lol. Ten people is alot even.

I'm just hopelessly idealistic and naive. (and it gets me into very difficult situations at times) Lmao.

To quote my teacher at one point: "If you always want things your own way, even those things that are most dear to you, and personal to you, you are going to lead a very lonely life."

My reply to her: "No really? Wow I never thought of THAT before! -laughter-" lol.

She turned out to be wrong. By most peoples' standards I'm a complete failure. But you know what? I'm not lonely. And infact I'm a pretty happy person most of the time. And my (soon to be) wife likes me just fine the way things are. And that's what matters right? :)

(What the girl thinks is ALWAYS what matters lol).

Frisco's Most Underrated
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003

Jan 05, 2004 09:05 pm

hey, not to dismiss everything else you wrote, but I live right across the street from GG park too. I thik that's pretty cool.

Member
Since: Jan 03, 2004

Jan 05, 2004 09:21 pm

Well I'll be damned. Small world. Lol.

GG park is my favorite place in the world. Not uncommon to find me riding the antique carousel in children's playground lmao.



Frisco's Most Underrated
Member
Since: Jan 28, 2003

Jan 06, 2004 05:14 pm

hmmm, not uncommon for me to walk by the carousel on my way to do some pullups in children's playground on my way to Amoeba.

Czar of Midi
Administrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002

Jan 06, 2004 05:40 pm

So the two of you have probly crossd paths more then once I bet. I love it when things get exciting.

Member
Since: Jan 03, 2004

Jan 06, 2004 07:07 pm

Lmao.

Small world.

only I can't do those pull ups. I try and try but all I manage to achieve is the faint crackling of grissle in my neck and shoulders informing me that if I don't stop I can kiss my music goodbye. Lol.

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