FX/mono and stereo tracks and VST drums.
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Posted on Feb 13, 2011 03:44 am
Dematrix
http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member Since: Nov 27, 2007
lets say reverb as an example,
Does sending an effect such as verb setup on a stereo channel, to a mono channel (eg guitar)
**** up the signal or quality of the effect?
Or does the verb channel need to be mono?
Basicly im aiming for more and more pleasing mixes and this will do my head in until i know for sure. I want verb but i dont want it to get messed up because its set up wrong, which is possibly what im experiencing.
Also,
Vst drums such as toontrack ezd sd2 or any of the guitar amp sims such as POd etc,
lets start with SD2 (drums)
If i was to import tracks from SD2 into my DAW, they come in onto stereo tracks in the project,
Now obviously i dont really want them on stereo tracks for a number of reasons.
What i dont know is, would that mean they are in stereo in SD2?
and if so, if i bring them into my DAW on mono tracks will this effect the sound? Im assuming yes, but i dont know.
would like to know what some here think about that.
Crux i guess this is aimed at you, im thinking you would be knowledgable on this.
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cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Feb 13, 2011 08:37 am i dont know y i would know this stuff, but flattered u think i would haha
first question, just to clarify, sending a stereo effect to a mono channel? would u mean that the other way around, as in mono track (guitar) to a stereo effect bus?
I dont know the hard and fast answer, but in my experience it doesnt have any adverse effects this way. As in if ur sending a mono guitar to a stereo reverb, the reverb will just treat it the same on both sides, since the mono track wil feed both sides the same. Usually when u say stereo effect in a DAW, it doesnt mean the effect FORCES stereo, it simply means it has the option for panning between two speakers. So if u send ur mono guitar track to a stereo reverb, itll just mean that when u pan ur mono guitar, the effect wont really be happening on the other side of the verb.
Now vice versa is where i wouldnt really know, but its also where it probalby gets troublesome. If ur sending a stereo track to a mono effect, the effect will SUM the track into a mono output. Which brings us to phase n such, if ur phase is out of whack, the summing will have some detriment. Also, another obvious set back is that ur summed mono output will no longer have the.. uhh... stereoness? so its best to send stereo to stereo, ok to go mono to stereo, but aviod stereo to mono
second question, firstly, im assuming ur exporting ur solo'd SD2 trax as wav files or watever. The reason their stereo is coz when u export, u export through ur selected output which is the STEREO output (master buss). I just faced this problem the other day so lucky u haha
anyhow, SD2 works with each track in mono, or more less not as mono or stereo since its midi, and that aspect will be chosen by u when u choose what audio the midi triggers and how. So dont worry about that. U can either set ur output (or mixdown option) to mono to correct this, or simply choose to import ur audio SD2 trax to as "separate tracks" (which will be mono) and then delete one. Either way if its a single sound (not two overheads on one track) ull be fine no matter wat and there will be no degradation in sound.
I would recommend however, (i dont recall wat DAW ur using) but that u find out how to route ur midi to audio outputs. All DAWs should be able to do this and itll make it so u dont have to export ur solo'd midi to audio tracks. Once u setup ur SD2 u should have the option to add audio tracks which r the output of ur midi, and u will have all the functions of both, midi control and audio effects.
on the money?
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 13, 2011 09:47 am yeah man thanks,
I was refering to the multitrack option in SD2 actaully i shouldve been more clear there.
So when i route the tracks from SD2 to the tracks in my DAW they come in on stero tracks.
so i guess i can choose either for them to come in on mono tracks, or there is an option to change all tracks to mono in Sd2.
Im not sure if this is what tis meant for, i guess i read the help section.
thanks for the help man.
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Feb 13, 2011 09:56 pm wat DAW r u using? i only use Cubase so im not on top of all others, but when u add the track there should be an option for stereo or mono
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 14, 2011 03:32 am yeah dude same, cubase 4.
Yeah when i usually use the stereo multitrack function in sd2, it just opens up all the channels needed and brings in the signal thru those cubase tracks.
Eg,
SD2 has a snare on track 7/8 cuabse opens a stereo instrument track in the project and the signal just goes thru there automatically.
This is why im thinkiing SD2 has that function to change all tracks to mono.
I could then proly just leave the OH's in SD2 as stereo if i can choose which ones i want changed.
Basicly, i just want to know, is making them mono going to make things a bit clearer/easier to use, mix wise?
Doesnt having the drums in stereo spread things across the field, making it harder to keep things clear or more so harder to place other instruments without knocking the quality of the drums on the head?
Dont get me wrong, i like my mixes but the drums always tend to lose their punch, and if i bring them up front more the guitars then fall back, im not hearing the bits sitting snuggly together as much as i would like.
Maybe i can send you a song and you could take a look?
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Feb 14, 2011 03:52 am yeah on both points, mono up ur drum single source drums and leave OHs and Room mics in stereo.
Once again i think it takes some time to realize the meaning of mono and stereo, its not so much "sound" as in function. Having ur snare coming through a stereo out doesnt make it "stereo" if its the same level simply divided amongst two speakesr, because as they are the same sound they will come together to form a "mono" element anyway. When u have a mono track "up the middle" its no different than duplicating the same track and panning the two hard left and right as long as their is absolutely zero difference between teh two sides (but duplicating will change the volume coz basically ur doubling, so if compensate for that yes, its back to mono).
Centering an instrument is only one factor of the "punch" of it, something off to the side can easily have punch as well. BUt on ur second point yes, having ur drum pieces mono will make them easier to work with, coz as said before u do run some dangers of feeding stereo tracks to mono fx n all that and its just easier to work wiht mono since ur not always worrying about wats going on in the other side.
feel free to put up something and ill check it out, or email me, i think my addy is in my profile.
just to clear up though, even though im still super flattered! I've literally mixed one album my whoel life (my own bands) and its not amazing. I just read A TON and i will mix the same song 100s of times just to see wat happens. So im not an authority on anything other than trial and error.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 14, 2011 05:01 am No worries man, cheers or the info, and yep i do the same thing, **** around with a song a 100 times also,
but now i reckon i pretty much mixed these songs enough and have only been so while waiting for my voalcs to come back online,
but i wanted to start looking at routing, and the basics being as best as i can get em, coz end of the day, to me, it could be the difference between a good mix, and a kick *** mix.
You have always seemed to have a much better understanding of the mechanisms behind these sorts of things is why i asked you to be honest.
Cheers again, i might do a quick mix with the drums in mono and keep the one in stereo and post te difference, see what you think/hear etc.
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Feb 14, 2011 05:35 am At the risk of elevating this post to philosophical levels, some of my biggest mixing epiphanies came MONTHS after setting the songs aside and even just letting them go out. Sometimes someone would pop open a song i mixed in their car months after, when my head wasnt so wrapped up in the details and id just be like, damn y didnt i hear that before?
mixing somethign 100 times gives u a good feel for the tools, but u need perspective to use them, so nowadays i try to separate the two tasks. I mix for fun atleast a few times a week, try out VSTs adn routings and different monitoring situations n things and i just remember wat happens without the pressure of having to make a mix actually sound good. By the time i have a song i actually have to make work, its like everything is already there.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 14, 2011 05:57 am dude your philo's are similar to mine.
and yeah i couldnt agree more which is why im ready to handball these puppies out there.
But....
having said that man.......
just now i did the change over from stereo to mono, and even with the oh's and roomies still in on one track etc, with a quick pan of the kick drums slightly to the each side etc, quite frankly i like the mix better already!!!!!
I think this is the thing ive been looking for!
I cant wait to spend an hour or so on this and see the results.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 14, 2011 09:00 pm was really wondering what the go was with the oh's and room mics as far as stereo channels was concerened,
it appears that, setting up 2 monos and panning IS actually correct after all. I thought it was just going to be the same track panned L/R and couldnt find any way shape or form to get those channels back to stereo.
Actually really sounds bloody better in mono, maybe im convincing myself of this, but to me the kicks, snare and toms sit right where i want them and the whole song seems so much more fluent for some reason.
I recommend the mono switch hands down.
Im happy.
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Feb 14, 2011 09:34 pm im not super familiar with SD2, or any drum VST actually, only ever demo'd one, but yeah if it sounds right. Maybe the stereo button was messing up with something else? either way, monos da way
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 14, 2011 10:40 pm yeah man just finished mxing. im really liking it now.
a really good move doing that. i can really hear some punch now with the drums they fell like they are part of the song now more.
makes a huge difference and just blends everything else better.
