Best Case Scenario - EQ/Panning Metal Guitars
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Posted on Nov 05, 2010 11:20 am
Hippie
Rockstar Vatican Assassin
Member Since: Mar 20, 2009
Hello again... everyone,
My mixing/mastering attempts were officially critiqued by a studio engineer and the results weren't good! I was told the mix wasn't "rounded," couldn't pass for "international," and wouldn't help getting the band signed!! Now, obviously this guy is simply busting my balls in an attempt to attract business, but his comments, none-the-less, got me thinking. WTF am I doing wrong that isn't producing that "roundness." I mean, I know what he means.... I don't have that airy, punchy stereo, but I have no idea how to create it. My spidy senses tell me.. the girth is lacking in the guitars.
I currently have both guitars panned 100% L/R. Is 80% L/R the better alternative? I also only have one track of each guitar in the songs. Should I double them up (via Copy/Paste) to create 4 guitar tracks total (2 tracks per side)? If so, should I use that tried and true method of sliding one track forward a notch to create delay? Or, stick with single tracks and add delay to those?
On the EQ, I'm pretty much just adding a low pass around 80Hz, scooping some of the mids, and adding a bit of dbs to the 2kz/4kz range. But still they sound flat to me.... cleaner.. but not like in-your-face heavy distortion that melts the wax in your eardrums. Bear in mind, these tracks were recording using direct line pod 6 (no mic'd cabs).
If any of you guys have a before and after guitar sample and an explanation of the plugins/EQ used.... that would be so beneficial. Youtube has plenty of vids... but they mostly focus on sweeping the mids (seems to be the common thread).
All advice is always appreciated.. thanks!
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Nov 05, 2010 06:24 pm you mean hi pass at 80 htz?
first of all if he is a good mix engineer he should be able to tell you just by listening how to fix it.
Bass content. Its a sign of a good mix engineer to eliminate as much bass as possible from every instrement including the bass and drums. Gaining clarity on that bottom end will "open up" the top end. The exact words you used "punchy" and "airy" makes me think you should move all your hi pass filter cut off frequencies up a bit.
When mixing you don't "add" anything. You don't "engineer" a good song, you "compose it". An instrement laying on the ground makes no sound. It is the player that must bring music to it. When mixing your not gonna add something that isn't already their. Instead your simply carving the mud away so the music can shine through.
So don't run big lines of effects and boosted EQ, harmonic extenders, exciters and all that. When mixing you should be eliminating things. Not adding things.
I also can't stress the importance of having all instrements completely in tune and intonated well. Even slight differences in tuning can cause cancelation that is perceived by humans as a drop in volume and brightness.
But to me it seems like your main problem isn't panning or levels or effect chains. It seems like you either recorded to hot or what i really think is that you have too much bass content eating up the headroom needed to have punch and open air-ness.
Also try using volume automation opposed to compression when possible. Then run lighter comp rats.
hope that makes sense.
Nov 05, 2010 07:30 pm also:
hard panning and delaying one side is great is great for making a mono track sound stereo and in a busy mix it can lift guitars out and into the forfront.
But at the expense of impact, clarity and punch.
Don't do that for this.
Layering guitars? thats a good idea but don't simply copy them. Create a slightly different gitar tone and record a track to layer.
100% panning is good.
and in your face sound is scientifically decided to be at 1khz. You do not need to add "girth". The bassline and drum track should be taking care of the "girth". To get that in your face sound, you should actually eliminate anything that the listener associates with backround. Such as bass frequencies like i mentioned, reverb, delay, ect. Instead just have a small sharp mid range tone injected into the mix.
I know i keep saying the same thing over and over. Big sound comes in small packages.
A bunch of processing an dediting is just gonne make it sound really processed and edited. To get that in your face punch you need to turn the volume up. To turn the volume up you need headroom. To maintain headroom you need to do as little processing as possible. This may even mean eliminating entire instrement tracks that clutter the image.
Nov 05, 2010 07:32 pm just for shits and giggles i might as well mention that used copies of the mix engineers handbook are only 10$ on amazon right now.....major steal
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Nov 05, 2010 11:10 pm i pan at 80 and 30, double track guitars each side, and use a mono delays panned to the opposite sides of their original, but not too wide. solo the drums and the guitar with the delay on it and see how sounds in dif spots.
Pod is good but your not gonna get speaker cab throb and speaker excursion from it. I use Pod too but i blend with a real amp.
Im even starting to doubt using it all together to be honest. It just doesnt have the punch required unless you crank the distortion and then you get mush.
The punch you get from guitars is from them being cranked thru an amp with not too much distortion.
its not the distortion that does it, its the cab about to **** itself from the speakers moving air. (throb) Needs to be loud tho.
make sure your pre is not driving your Mono in track in your DAW too hard.
Keep it around -15dB but do this using the your pre's output and monitor the mono track leaving it at 0dB with that. Youll be suprised at the difference.
Nov 06, 2010 08:20 am I have rarely even panned anything 100% either way unless it's for some weird dynamic effect for a few seconds...I try to pan things somewhat I see see the performers on stage and blend it with some common sense...which sounds simplistic, but it works...at least for me...
If you have two guitars, well, unless you are sitting in themiddle of the stage, nobody is 100% either direction...maybe 30-45 degrees off either way.
The common sense part is kick drum being center...then panning drums slightly left or right as the kit looks, so then drum rolls down the toms, for example, roll slightly from one side to the other, NEVER ending up 100% either side.
Have you listened to your mixes in different scenarios? Like on a home hifi, car stereo, boombox, ipod, etc? Thes different systems enhance and detract different frequencies depending on the speakers in each system. You do need to master your audio by eliminating large peaks and valleys in the frequency response...this can be a daunting task...I use a program called Har-Bal to analyze and report on my overall EQ and adjust accordingly. Check it out, it helps make quick work of finding and adjusting for large frequency boosts or cuts.
cooloFrisco's Most UnderratedMember
Since: Jan 28, 2003
Nov 06, 2010 02:29 pm Well, I don't know much about metal... but it's hard to give advice on what to do without hearing the track. Do you have any tracks that the mix engineer critiqued on your profile?
and rolling at "couldn't pass for international"
edit: Listening to The crimson secret on your profile, and my initial impression is that the drums except for the hats don't push through the mix... (like I said, I don't really know what the standard is for metal, so you may not want that). The other thing that strikes me is a lack of airyness so to speak, and to me it sounds like you pushed the limiter to hard on the master. But mostly it sounds pretty good, just slight details that aren't quite "perfect"
