Still missing something, but I'm out of ideas....
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Posted on Oct 19, 2010 01:36 pm
Hippie
Rockstar Vatican Assassin
Member Since: Mar 20, 2009
I posted a new song in my profile thats hot off the press, but it still feels like I'm lacking a certain something to give it some warmth. Everything is crystal clear (at least to me) as every instrument is audible... but the overall mix seems bland. Thoughts? Input? Any comment is an appreciated comment. Thanks.
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Oct 19, 2010 09:39 pm The drums seem....a little low to me. i'd prefer them a tad louder. The snare gets lost to me a bit. Kick drums feels...idk. lacking a tad bit of depth. The whole thing is lacking a bit of low end. The guitars sound great. The drums are really the only thing bothering me here, maybe the bass.
Sorry I can't really help tell you how to make the mix better. I can only complain :P Great job on the guitars though.
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Oct 19, 2010 10:34 pm +1 on the drums being a bit buried
it just seems like everythign hasnt really gelled yet, everythign sounds nice and clear but their kind of on their own. Maybe feed each through a reverb aux? just a tad so they all sound like their in the same room
r u compressing at the master buss? limiting? usually once u get the drums in the right place (just a bit louder than the guitars) u can compress at the master to bring up the guitars and itll make the whole track sound more together
i myself found this problem when mixing is that u want the guitars to be so clear and powerful u turn them up over teh drums, but u do have to consider the mastering a bit coz when u clamp down at the end the way teh guitars r they will kind of eat up ur dynamics and teh drums will be buried
HippieRockstar Vatican AssassinMember
Since: Mar 20, 2009
Oct 20, 2010 10:10 am I suppose the drums can come up some... my problem is the clipping from the bass drum has me a bit scared to do so. Right now, the kick and snare both ride at or around -8 dbs, but will shoot up to like +1.5 dbs in certain spots (despite compressor). If I raise the trim on both, it could potentially be higher than that and happen more often as a result.
The bass guitar is another tricky lil bastard for me. My bass player wants his bass to sound like Iron Maiden.. more "clicky," less low end. This sort of suits me fine simply because adding low end to what I got adds mud to the overall sound. I have no idea how to EQ that sound though... so I just took out some of the low end to pump up the mids and highs (get that twang he wants). Advice?
@ crux
I guess I can try your suggestions and see if it helps. Being the drummer, I shouldn't be favoring the guitars over drums.. right? =)
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Oct 20, 2010 12:08 pm Quote:
my problem is the clipping from the bass drum
Try and put a limiter on the master. That should shave down anything over a set amount. I usually put -.3 or -.5 dbs as a ceiling.
I used to use the khearjus classic limiter (free, if you can find it). Works quite well. I think there's a CD preset that I used to use.
Now I use event horizon 2 that comes with reaper now. Very clean and nice.
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Oct 20, 2010 12:38 pm yes u should totally favor ur own isntrument, y play and mix when u cant make urself teh centerpiece?!?! hahaha
but yeah if ur kick drum is clipping that is a problem, nothign should clip, and that doesnt mean putting on a limiter to give the impression nothing is clipping
so dont turn up ur drums, rather turn down ur guitars. A trick i read somewhere that works, is that when u turn down ur volume (listening) u should hear everything slowly disappear except ur drums and vocals, right beforei t goes quiet u should hear ur kick drum click, snare hit adn some vocals left
if ur turning down to that point and ur still hearing a lot of guitar, ur guitars r too loud. When mixing and something is buried, dont turn it up, turn other things burying it down, its the safest rule of thumb to keep from clicking AND when u do finally add a limiter u can get a nice thick track that still has some good aggressive dynamics.
remember that loud isnt actually loud, drums can be loud but if they dont HIT like a drum should, as in have an attack they wont FEEL powerful. By mixing so that ur drums retain their attack weight over other instruments, ur mix will pump much nicer and give a sense of groove.
so dont turn down ur guitars a ton, just go down until ur snare and kick r smacking out of the track. When u finally limit at the master, the guitars being a constant soudn will come up plenty and u wont miss the volume at all
HippieRockstar Vatican AssassinMember
Since: Mar 20, 2009
Oct 20, 2010 12:54 pm @ Crux...
It sounds like my best possible solution then is just pass all other tracks not associated with drums to a BUS and turn them all down at the same time. That way.......I keep all levels for guitars/solos/vocals/bass/etc..... uniform throughout the entire "trim" process.
If I choose to use a limiter (for the sake of ease), would it be best to put a limiter on the "kick" track, BUS the drums and put a limiter on just the drums, limit the Master Out, or the use the limiter included with my Mastering software (jamin)? The options to limit are limitless (hows that for irony)!!
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Oct 20, 2010 01:37 pm I bus all my stuff, or group, or folder, whichever it's called in your DAW.
I agree with Crux, I shouldn't have just so easily said 'slap a limiter on there' to fix a problem. The problem should be fixed, instead of removing the symptoms. < red faced >
Anyway, i put most things together into groups, then like you said, you can adjust that group, like put a EQ, automation, etc. onto that group of tracks.
I think I would start by putting a limiter on the group, but I would also check other ways if it still didn't feel right.
I should mention, that I haven't listened to the song yet, just kicking out ideas from the cuff.
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Oct 20, 2010 02:00 pm yes u could group all teh tracks to make turning them down easier, but remember mixing is balance so the balance ur getting at this volume will change when the relationships of the instruments change, so ull still have to tweak. best not to group EVERYTHING but group isntruments, guitars, drums, vox n such and move them relative to each other
again, ur not limiting to get rid of peaks, u should get rid of peaks (clipping) with ur faders and EQ or watever u need. If a track is clipping, and u put a limiter on it, it doesnt actually turn it down, it blocks the clip from occuring. Its like if u have a torrent of water gushing through a hole (clipping) the limiter doesnt suck the water back at the source, it just puts up a dam, and the water will just pile up at the dam and crash and swish.
when i said limit i didnt mean to keep teh kick from clipping, but it was more about when u first asked about ur track and how it sounded like it was missing somthing,i thought it didnt really sound all together, everything is clear but they kind of inhabit different spaces. Once u get the levels correct (drums r banging with dynamics, guitars r good relatively, vox present etc) u can press them all together (like u would a sandwich) by limiting or compressing at the Master Bus. and JUST like a sandwich, when u do this all teh elements start to kind of bleed into eachother and mush and make for a tasty tasty track
HippieRockstar Vatican AssassinMember
Since: Mar 20, 2009
Oct 25, 2010 09:10 am I've uploaded a new version of the song taking everyone's advice into account. The main focus this go-round was to reduce some of the boxiness (taking out a lot of mids in both drums and guitars) and pumping up the kick by reducing some of the other instruments. Please have another listen... thoughts?
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Oct 26, 2010 01:53 am Spot on man, that kick is really pumping now, and u havent lost any of the guitar power. Its sounding relaly kickass man!
Now i think just do wat u did for the kick to the snare, its stilly kind of buried in there. BUt on the whole the mix sounds way more cohesive. Sweet.
