panning close mics correctly with O/H's
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Posted on Feb 10, 2010 08:27 am
Dematrix
http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member Since: Nov 27, 2007
Anyone got any brilliant ideas on how to work out exaclty where a drum is situated in the stereo field via overheads?
eg where to pan the snare in relation to where it is in the overheads?
Toms are the main issue here really. I would like to get them as close as possible really. Do think the panning of these drums would be set correctly by default?
Im using EZdrama SD2.
while im on the subject if anyone knows how to use x-drums, please advise. Cheeeeeers blokes!
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Feb 10, 2010 11:15 am Subjective. Sure, if you're panning them, you probably want that pan to relate to the overheads (left should be left, etc.). If you're an "overhead" type (I tend to attempt to get the entire kit with just the overheads *first* and then mix in the other elements), it might change the whole game. If the overheads sound great on their own, you might only want "air" and "slap" out of the close mics, along with something to drive the aux sends. Leaving them centered would be the way to keep that "anchor" in the kit while allowing the natural pan of the overheads to create the space.
CptTrippsCzar of Turd PolishMember
Since: Jun 20, 2006
Feb 10, 2010 12:26 pm I look at the kit from the front at an angle where the snare/kick are centered and try to base my toms of that. Not 100% accurate but on my 4 piece I pan the Floor and Rack toms at 50L 50R. I used to do around 35 each (I use 35R if I install the 2nd rack tom) but I like the effect of 50 when a roll is going on as I hear it move across my speakers.
I do try to use the kick and OHs to get my drum sound, then I bring up each close mic until it augments the OHs but does not drown them out.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 10, 2010 06:32 pm its funny, i never really knew that about drums, trying the whole o/h sound first then the close mics, will be interested in giving that a try.
can i ask you though, what do you do about the fact that the cymbals might be way to loud to be able to use the o/h's for a drum sound?
I can alter my cymbal volume on my o/hs if i want as im using EZD but how would you approach this doing it in the real world?
Feb 10, 2010 06:46 pm Me either actually. The default mixer setting in the program leads one to believe that the close mics are the "typical" drum sound source, and overheads should be used to add space or as a special effect. I'm surprised to learn that the opposite can be true.
Quincysanhttp://www.unitedmusicians.infoContributor
Since: Nov 11, 2007
Feb 10, 2010 08:31 pm ^^^ Heck yep Fragile + Deon it's been very true in my experience.
I had close mic'd a drumset and used SDC's in an XY to get the cymbals. Since I had an extra input I took an LDC (AT3035) and stuck it in a corner 25 feet away. I planned to use the close mics up front and mix the LDC in as a test to see if I could somehow give these drums a big like Bonham kind of feel. The mic was at a downward angle facing the corner of a little nook in my house (I drew a picture bc its almost impossible to explain, see below)
After tracking was done I did have to move the long distance LDC waveforms a bit so it was in phase with the other drums (did I use that term correctly? I don't even know...hah)
The result was that the long distance mic sounded so awesome sitting in front of the mix that it is now the predominant drum sound heard in my recording. Not exactly big like Bonham, but bigger than before!
Here's a visual helper (mspaint rawks):
Feb 10, 2010 09:20 pm (@ Deon)
That's the whole point of getting it right in the first place. If the cymbals are too loud, the mics are in the wrong place. You can still try to get "more cymbals" by using cymbal mics... But the overheads (IMO/E) should capture the kit - They're going to anyway - Might as well make it a good sounding kit.
Granted - The heavier the music, the more you tend to see the close mics take the front. The more 'real' the music, the more the overheads are the star (in many cases, the only active mics at all in jazz and such).
But some great recordings are made with simple 4-mic (kick, snare top, stereo overheads) techniques.
(TIME PASSES)
Just uploaded a quickie demo thing from the last century. Kick, snare, stereo overheads - That's it. (Washed Away)
And yes, before someone says "that's not possible with two arms" -- the incidental ride bell hits were dubbed in later.
Not looking for commentary on the quality / performance - This tune was literally written in my head on the way to work one morning (while I was working at a full-service studio) and I'm not much of a drummer. Just a 'demo' for the band. I called the AE from my cell and asked if there was a kit in the big room, he said "yes" I said "throw 4 mics up on it and get a click track ready" - Played the drums in one continuous take (it was actually the second take, as I lost count on the first one) and then picked up a bass to figure out the bass line & tapping that was going through my head, picked up a guitar to figure out the guitar parts, wrote the lyrics while the AE was making a rough mix (you can probably hear me reading them off the sheet of paper). The whole thing was started around 10AM and done before the lunch special started at the Chinese place next door. It's rough. It's *really* rough. I get it. It's freaking rough.
(EDIT)
Sheesh - I haven't listened to that in years... I was hammering those cymbals like Thor around 3:45...
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 10, 2010 09:57 pm cool ok that's what i was thinking MM, gotta get that placement right.
luckily i have access as i said before to turning the cymbals down, well i think so anyway. i have a close mic ambience so igues if i cant turn down the cymbals (which now i think of it isnt possible) i will have to use the close mic ambient and maybe look at the mediume close amb.
Dematrixhttp://www.reverbnation.com/2ndgMember
Since: Nov 27, 2007
Feb 10, 2010 10:45 pm oh geez man! how much friggin difference does it make using the o/h's for the meat of the drum sound??
why oh why dint i knw viss before!!
I havent even brought in the room ambience yet.
I.....am a very happy little vegemite right now.
Not had a whole lot to do with with drums before so ive learnt one hell of a lesson. i owe you all a beer.
