Kick Drum Samples Too Harsh

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Member Since: Jun 11, 2009

I am trying to used a drum sampler/midi loop to play acoustic drums. My style is a kinda rock blues thing. I am a guitar player not a drummer so its hard for me to tell if I am hearing a great sounding drum kit or a cheesy one (I am talking about the more subtle differences here). The kick samples I am using sound way too punchy almost like a jack hammer. Can I EQ this out? I am using EZ Drummer and Drumagog. Any really good kick samples you can suggest?

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Member
Since: Jul 02, 2003

Sep 03, 2009 03:04 pm

Personally I think EZD's kick samples suck, but with some work you can get an acceptable sound. Send the kick to a track by itself and use a compressor to soften the attack a bit, and eq to kill some of the beater noise and generally shape the sound you're looking for. You can also try turning down the Velocity sweep in EZ so the hit's aren't quite so hard.

You might also want to take a look at Submersible Musics, DrumCore 3 Free and see if it suits the style you're looking for better. It only includes 1 kit (2 if you count the hip hop kit) but I think it's a great sounding kit for rock/blues/pop. submersiblemusic.com

Dan


Typo Szar
Member
Since: Jul 04, 2002

Sep 03, 2009 08:47 pm

I second Dan, with the comp and EQ, try doing a very gentle dip from 2khz to a bit beyond 5khz, should be somewhere around there. and again u could always try other samples, there should be a ton of free ones on the net but in EZD i think they provide quite a few different options? try scanning through.

also u can try turning up the room control on ur EZD mixer to push the kit back a bit

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Sep 03, 2009 09:57 pm

what have you got the velocity on EZ set at?

scooping out 7 or 8 dB of the mids works for me.

i know what you mean though with EZ, but seriously let us know what you have the velocity set at.

whether it be the velocity in EZ or drumagog.
does this mean you are using a real kit and then triggering the sounds, or are they just samples?

basicly you just wanna make sure your hits arent always as hard as they can be, you'll get that robotic sound to the drums other wise.

if you look at an EZdrummer "loop" thru the drum map, with the velocity set to 0 zero in EZ, you'll see different coloured hits there indicating the velocity.
if you crank up the velocity in EZ then have a look the midi drum map, they all be the same colour indicating the are all the same vol/velocity.

if you already know all this then i guess i just warmed up my typing fingers for the morning.
I use EZ also and i do know where yer coming from with it.


Member
Since: Jun 11, 2009

Sep 04, 2009 12:10 am

Thanks for all the input guys.....I can see you all can relate! Yeah EZ's samples aren't all that great so that why I use drumagog to replace any that need it (kick for sure). The velocity is defaulted so yeah I guess I can turn that down, but to be honest I would just like to try either another sample and use drumagog or maybe another program. Drumcore 3 might be fine. I didn't realize how harsh the kick was until I burned my song to CD and listened to it in a car.......wow. I'm glad that I didn't damage here stereo the way the kick was pounding!

One thing though, is a 7 to 8 db cut acceptable EQ? I mean, if you need to cut or boost that much shouldn't you use a different sample? I a newbie to this so be gentle! JK

www.TheLondonProject.ca
Member
Since: Feb 07, 2005

Sep 04, 2009 12:57 am

Have you tried using the different kick drums in EZ? Also there are other packs such as Bonham's kit etc.

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Sep 04, 2009 01:26 am

@musicman
depends what EZ youre using, some havent been eq'd, some have, some have compression some havent etc.

if youve got a dry kick drum then you do what you gotta do.
I drop that amount of mids outta mine or it sounds like turd.

i use the EZ kick just fine, you just gotta muck with it a bit till you get what you want. When i first bought it i was of the same opinion till i mucked around with it.

think of it this way, if you recorded a kit with mics then you'd be stuck with the sound and would most likely have to make it work.
really, you couldnt ask for better samples than the way EZdrummer recorded theirs.

find, compression wise, where it sounds best, adjust the attack and release times till you capture the part you want.

it also depends on how you are stringing your drum loops together.
Are you using pre existing loops? or are you just making them in the dum map?

If youre making them, then you arent gonna have the adequate velocties you need for it to sound real.

If they are all the same colour the its gonna sound robotic, if the kicks are all as loud as you can get em, then it will sound too loud and wrong.
no one plays with the exact same intensity on every hit. especially kicks.

an example of this is, im doing a song atm where i cut and pasted certain parts of the kicks in a segment not thinking about what velocity it was at, in actual fact, i 'd copied and pasted from the snare column and pasted it to the kick section to make the kicks, not realizing the snare hit was full throttle.

So that whole section of double kicks, are all "one" intensity and it sounds like crap because dble kicks, are a whole heap of diferent velocties when played. (beater bouncing of the foot)



Czar of Turd Polish
Member
Since: Jun 20, 2006

Sep 04, 2009 11:29 am

Usually when drumagog hits too hard it's because the input is too hot, if my kick is coming in at -12 and I then comp it for makeup gain before drumagog then I will get nothing but hard hits all the way through. I would simply try turning the input in drumagog down a couple DB as that is a way to control the velocity. Let it do the random multi-samples and all that for realism but reducing input should trick drumagog into triggering softer hits that are more in tune with... your tunes.

Have you downloaded the kick pack from drumagog? There are plenty of usable kicks in there.

Here are some freebies, the already gog'd files are pretty metal sounding but the grip samples might work for you.

pipelineaudio.net/drumsamplespage.html

Member
Since: Jun 11, 2009

Sep 04, 2009 01:08 pm

I hear ya Deon. Its pretty frustrating to be focusing on something that I am not very proficient in (drumming/mixing) and trying to get it to sound not even great, but acceptable.....I have DL'd Drumcore and the kit sounds pretty good. I will also try DL'ing those gog samples too. If all else fails I can try like Deon said and go back and play with EQ/Compressor stuff.

http://www.reverbnation.com/2ndg
Member
Since: Nov 27, 2007

Sep 04, 2009 11:43 pm

main thing i found is to have a shorter release time on compression, so to only capture a bit of the drum.

eg; maybe you want the very "instant" the kick hits, to be captured more, so have the attack set at .01, or .06 ms or something like that,

then if you think the compression is holding for too long causing the "thuddy" effect, maybe only have the release time set at 40ms or around there, instead of say 90 or 100ms.

the longer the relase, the more chance you have of copping the rest of the drum sound, which may or may not be causing that thuddy effect.

i have to roll of bass freq a tad too, up to 50 to 60 even 70 odd.

now i know this is the frequency "of" a kick that needs to be there, but you just dunno how they recorded the sample, whether its had eq already altered or anything.

Go with what sounds right, not exclusively by what looks right or what you've been told, there are just too many variables to follow what someone suggests to be right unless theyve actually heard the song for themselves.


having said all this, when i had this problem, the guys at HRC figured out it was my room causing the problem.

bad room treament makes it a million times harder to even have an idea of what's sounding right or wrong.

Geez i only wanted to write a couple of lines and ive gone nutso again.

anyway hope this helps a bit more at least.

and Cap'n cheers for the link i might grab some of those also.

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