Jul 26, 2009 04:23 pm Not used to the html use on this site yet, sorry, haha. link still works, though.
Help with screaming vox
Posted on Jul 26, 2009 04:22 pm
justynnuff
Member Since: Jul 26, 2009
Hello, everyone, I've new here and relatively new to the whole recording scene.
So, I have a M Box Omni Studio with Cubase, a 4 piece drum mic setup and one AKG condenser mic similar to the AKG Perception 150, but it's the light blue one (I got it from a friend so I'm not sure the model number. I tried looking it up on AKG's site and didn't find it, it's probably discontinued).
Since I know my way around every instument, I'm writing a CD that is a mix of hardcore and southern rock (similar mostly to Maylene and the Sons of Disaster) and have been recording vocals through the condenser mic.
I'm pretty sure the mic is made for overhead drum kit recording, but It's doing alright with a popfilter for vocals.
On the mixing end, I'm adding slight reverb and a lot of compression (it's a general 'vocal' setting multi bandwidth compressor that came with cubase SX3), but I'm not sure if it's coming out alright.
I would really appreciate if anyone has heard MATSOD and has any input on what I should do as far as mixing screaming vocals better. I know I'm terrible, but I figure even if my talents aren't great, the worst that would happen would be joining the ranks of all the other bands that suck vocally, so you can rip all you want. Vocals are not my forté.
A last note is that none of the vocals are eq'ed yet, and I would appreciate any input on how to, and I know the drum mix in general is a little heavy on the high end, but I'll fix it in due time.
Here's a link to the myspace with the first song on it:
www.myspace.com/productofsouthernlongcut
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Jul 26, 2009 04:23 pm Not used to the html use on this site yet, sorry, haha. link still works, though.
Jul 26, 2009 08:31 pm what exactly do think the vox issue is?
it doesnt sound too bad to me man. all i will say is, sounds like there is too much compression on them, its kinda squashing the life outta them.
eq wise for vox, ya dont really wanna do too much to em because you can take away from how your voice sounds naturally, peoples ears are pretty sensitive to how a voice should sound, so if you eq it too much it will be quite noticable. (IMO)
effects wise for vox i like to add delay, muck around with yer time settings for it though, anywhere between 18-30ms is good, but its up to your taste.
i thought the kit sounded pretty good to my ears too.
Jul 26, 2009 09:10 pm justynuff, welcome to HRC first off. I'll have to try and give a listen either tomorrow or Tuesday. Then I'll see what I can give you for information.
But if Deon is hearing over compressed vocals then that may be a good start. If your playing the kind of rock I think you are then I'm pretty familiar with it. The vocals can sometimes be treated a little like a death metal vocal but not nearly as much tweaking as would be done there.
One thing you will find that many of this type of band do to cheat alittle bit in the recording is to add a small bit of distortion to the vocal. Usually it is done on a duplicated track and then you simply mix the two together until you get the desired results. it adds a thickness to a voice that otherwise might not be powerful enough to completely pull off the heavy screaming vocal.
Jul 27, 2009 02:20 am Freakin' awesome!!
Your responses are great, as I was afraid I would just be met with a 'this topic has been covered a million times here [insert link]' but every word is gold from where I'm sitting. I will try this distortion technique, but wouldn't it just be the same as adding an fx track with distortion on it and just 'sending' it between 0 and 100% to get the effect? Or is there a difference.
Also, I'm glad you complimented on the drum kit because if you knew the extent of how I record it, you would be appalled.
The drums are set up in a little shed that has 3 small walls and one wall entirely made of brick with nothing on it! I have an audix f12 in front of the bass drum, an f10 on the snare and said condenser mic as an overhead that I just pray and eq to pick up the toms, haha. That condenser mic then sits in front of a Fender amp for guitars and in front of my pipes for vocals. She's durable, and a pretty damn good C Mic in MY opinion.
Anyway, thanks and keep it coming!
Jul 27, 2009 11:58 am FX send should work fine and would be similar indeed. I think Noize tossed out the "easy way if you don't know anything of routing" solution.
Jul 27, 2009 10:07 pm Ya, they will both be fairly similar. But it is worth a shot at doing it both ways as there can sometimes be a bit of difference.
Sounds to me like you've figured the room out and know how to get the sound you want from it on the drums.
Jul 28, 2009 09:38 pm Thanks, guys.
One more thing.
Not sure if I should bust out another thread or do it here. Not even sure it's an appropriate question, but I just figured out a trick in Cubase that involves "detect silence" then "quantize sounds" or whatever.
I always wondered why say for instance, tre cool's drums sound so incredibly on time in American Idiot and 21st Century breakdown. Is this why? I mean, there's of course a Pro Tools equivalent to this, no doubt. Is this what mainstream bands do to their drum tracks?
And further, at what point do you draw the line between integrity and 'wanting to sound super on time?' My heart dropped when I found out about this, because it's along the same lines for a drummer as autotune is for a singer.
What do you guys think?
Jul 28, 2009 11:15 pm BEAT DETECTIVE. Pro tools version of quantize audio in Cubase. Chops up every beat of a drum kit over a specified threshold and quantizes to a grid. And, you know, Tre's a pretty good drummer :). I love the sound of everything bang on the transient unless I'm working with really sweet musicians.
Regarding hardcore, most things drum wise seems chopped up and destroyed, triggered or even programmed. Its the sound of the genre.
Jul 29, 2009 07:49 am when youve been drumming for the last 15/20 years and its your job, ya gonna get good at what you do, Greenday's drumming isnt all that technical either so i would say its just him.
if you have a listen to exactly on time drums that have been fixed that way, they dont sound real.
you ve got all kinds of dynamics and feel to program as well.
if there was something really out, like a mistake, they might fix it, if they recorded it so you could in the first place.
the day they bands start releasing albums that are all programed and fixed to tempo and timing, is they day they should give up.
Jul 29, 2009 10:30 am Tell that to the entire techno genre :-D
Jul 29, 2009 11:04 am Thanks, Deon. Makes a lot of sense.
I've been playing for around 6 years, but It's only a hobby, and 99% of the time I'm not hooked up to a met. If I was, and this was my career and livelihood, I would bust my *** so that my timing would be superb. Especially, like you said, when the music isn't that technical.
If you have any examples of what chopped up drumming on the mainstream level sounds like, let me know. I'd want to check it out :)
Jul 29, 2009 07:40 pm Quote:
the day they bands start releasing albums that are all programed and fixed to tempo and timing
I bet you a 6 pack of coopers green that american idiot is completely chopped, quantized and possibly even sample replaced. But Tre's still a good drummer :D.
Jul 29, 2009 08:05 pm Coopers Green!!! Im in!
I guess you could get the song and put it to a click and see if it goes out.
If yer gonna program and fix everysong then IMO you cant call it your drumming anymore, that fine line, as its been put, has just been jumped all over.
im sure if you Googled it there's be something on his drumming.
colonel:
seeing as i think i will probably may lose this bet somehow, can you send Coopers Green to the States from Australia?
Jul 29, 2009 08:08 pm I'm in New Zealand you Aussie bastard!
Jul 29, 2009 08:09 pm And how about those rugby results! hahaha
Jul 29, 2009 08:17 pm oh gawd! a bloody Kiwi! ha ha ha.
I was thinking, do they have Coopers Green in the States?
Yeah those Rugby results, Im not big Rugby fan but that game was good'n.
I prefer that to Aussie rules though.
Crickets more my thing.
I gotta couple of Kiwi mates staying here atm, i will find out where they are from and let ya know. think one is from the south Island.
Jul 29, 2009 10:09 pm Go have a listen in my profile to drive:a and see if you can tell which is live and which is sequenced.
I'm not the best drummer either but play fairly well.
But you can honestly make a very real sounding drum track either sequenced or pasted together. But indeed, the thing is for perfection that is what it takes.
Jul 30, 2009 04:59 am Not to hijack the thread but....
Quote:
Tempo analysis of Green Day’s American Idiot appears to indicate that the whole album was heavily bar-beat edited to fine perfection. nyquist.dream-media.net/tag/auto-tune/
*makes beer opening noise*
Jul 30, 2009 05:26 am argh! cheating pricks!
ok i hang my head in shame.
Jul 30, 2009 11:27 am I saw that graph before I posted my question to you. I just wanted the answer I wanted to hear.
Oh well, I'm seeing their show here in San Diego on the 20th and if Tre falls off mid set and I still here the drums playing then I'll really denounce them, heh.
Also, that graph's y scale is in hundredths of a second, but still, if you graphed MY song (I don't even know how you would) I wonder what it would look like seeing as that entire thing was done to a metronome start to finish, and I felt (with the exception of a few fills, and a little hicup here and there) I was pretty straight on the whole time. And I believe I have the ear, if I had the TIME I would go back and fix those so that you couldn't hear the anomalies.
What would MY graph look like?
I guess I'm saying that I don't think it's a bad thing that bands fix hiccups, but if the whole drum track is quantized, or painstakingly arranged perfect, I would lose a great deal of respect.
Also, all this has inspired my first avatar for this site.
Pat all yourselves on the back.
EDIT: I take back what I said about my song now that I thought about the scale of .01 of a second. Mine probably varies somewhere in the tenths of a second, and would make that graph look like the Rockies.
Sigh. I guess you're all right.
Jul 30, 2009 07:24 pm Ive been thinking more on this, i guess im not really that opposed to quantizing, as long as its in the name of making the music "better".
if it starts becoming noticable and lose its feel then its time to have a look at it.
wouldnt it be really cool, for the listener, and the dude that plays it, if there is no fixing or quantizing?
that is afterall what we are all trying to achieve somewhat.
all i know is, ya gonna get bottles thrown at you if you get up on stage and play out of time, or you go so stupid with the quatizing for so long, that you cant even play the stuff anymore because you dont practice it enough.
Jul 31, 2009 02:24 am I think I agree with you, Deon.
Maylene and Green Day both have this element of pure time to them. They're really simple, but they're so damn ON that at this point, I wouldn't WANT to hear a pure drum track where the fills feel like they're played by the guy who practices his drums down the street.
And I have been to both of the aforementioned bands' shows, and even though shows are more exciting than sitting there listening to a CD, I've never encounter either drummer doing something that sounds off even in the SLIGHTEST.
In conclusion, like I said, I think I agree.
Also, great thread. This is what I was looking for on the internet in another forum but couldn't find it initially. This seems to be a great, knowledgeable bunch of people and I will definitely tap it's resources when I record further.
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