Opinions on high end recording interfaces
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Posted on Jun 23, 2009 12:37 am
Engladdict
Member Since: Jun 19, 2009
Hello there, everyone
I've been to a couple websites before to ask these things but everyone seems to be a douche bag or not know what they are talking about, but trying to seem like they do. so, here goes
Im going to be running Mac only recording studio. I have a Macbook but going to upgrade to their best tower desktop w/ two monitors. Im using a USB recording interface right now, and it doesn't seem to be very clear when it comes to my guitar lines, vocals are alright since it mostly screaming, but i need more clarity when it comes to the guitar work.
so, I'm looking for some mid to high end rack interface, firewire of course. i've been looking at presonus but i'd like to know some suggestions from everyone. links or pics would help as well
and also, my interface has phantom power, wtf is phantom power? i set it on and off and didn't notice anything, but i just keep it on anyway since people obviously like it i guess it must be good to have.
and here's another question. I want some sort of sound effects, like thunder or deep atmospheric stuff, or something to make it sound like an orchestra. idk if that would be a synthesizer or what. all i really know about it guitars lol
so, thanks guys, i appreciate it. any opinions on guitar Mics (besides an SM57, i have one of those) thanks again
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cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Jun 23, 2009 02:18 am first off i dont think its really your sound card that is degrading ur guitar sound, if ur saying ur losing clarity atleast. Its probably to do with the preamps and the mic ur using and micing technique, maybe look into developing that stuff before dropping money on gear. but if u do want to upgrade and ur getting such a sweet Mac, i think u should just go for broke and get somekind of PCI type unit, bypassing any future problems u might get from either firewire or USB. Mac ofcourse allows u to get into the hi end digidesign stuff and use pro tools, just throwing options at u.
phantom power is power for specific mics and DI boxes n such that will say they need them. it doesnt improve sound quality if its going into a mic (like an SM57) that doesnt require it and on older mics or equipment it might actually break them so i wouldnt leave it on if not needed. its basically just fuel for ur car, it doesnt do any good to douse ur bike with the stuff.
sound effects, since ur getting a computer u can probalby get some sweet soft synths that also have sound effect packs, ull probably have to do some research on these to find which ones u want, but i think Native Instruments makes the more expandable programs with large libraries of sound. u could get a midi keyboard or other interface to aid u in controlling the synths on ur computer.
on my guitar i actually use a Behringer B1 Mic, coz its a condensor mic (uses phantom power) but its pretty darn cheap and i feel like i can really crank my amp without possibly trashing pricey gear. its not better than an SM57 but its "different" so its good to have options u know
Jun 23, 2009 12:00 pm Budget? I/O capacity? Outboard preamps? Inboard preamps? Number of preamps vs. line-level inputs? Digital I/O type...?
Need more info.
(The budget part is pretty important - "high end" means very different things to different people)
Jun 23, 2009 01:26 pm What's a PCI unit?
my budget, don't really have one since music is my life im pretty much investing all i can, nothing crazy though, maybe 2 grand and under
i don't know what I/O is or any of the other thigns you said Massive lol
sorry, like i said im new to this
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jun 23, 2009 03:12 pm Hey Engl, i'll throw some ideas out here as well
PCI is a card, that has to be installed into the computer. This card has it's own chips and processing built-in, and can also connect to a breakout box, like the 1010lt :
This card gets plugged into the PC, and then you plug your signals into the LINE inputs on the box. This is a rack-mount solution.
Conversely, the firewire options don't have any 'card' to install, just plug in the firewire plug, and it communicates through that.
PCI solutions are generally considered to be faster, and more stable. But I'm inclined to say that many engineers are using firewire solutions to great ends. I do know though, that some firewire chipsets are not happy in an AUDIO environment. I believe the Texas Instruments (TI) chipset is the one to use. This may not be an issue with MACS, so research is in order here.
Phantom power, like crux mentioned, is for certain microphones. Condenser microphones, to be exact. Your SM57 is a dynamic mic, and it does not need phantom power. Condenser mics, like the one crux mentioned (B1) requires phantom power to operate properly.
On the subject of mics, it's often accepted that condensers have a very detailed way of picking up sound, giving a more clear version of the sound, though this theory is probably hotly contested. I know MM speaks well of the shure SM7B:
which is a dynamic mic, so that premise isn't without it's challengers. I know I have a few Large Diaphragm condensers (LDC) and they seem to be a fair bit clearer than the SM57s I use for other things. But this issue is certainly subjective.
Many people use Ribbon mics for guitar cabinets, and swear by them. Problem is, ribbons are kinda spendy, though you can get a few for cheap, but I don't know the quality of them (nady, samson, etc). Royer comes to mind for high-end ribbons, but they're in the 1000+ range.
crux mentioned the soft-synth route, for sound effects, background sounds, etc., and this is a pretty decent solution. It can be had for relatively free, but you may want to get a controller keyboard to 'play' the sounds out from the PC (via MIDI). I purchased a Juno-D, for it's sounds, and MIDI controller functions. I use it in both situations: 1) playing the sounds right from the keyboard, as it has tons of onboard sounds, and 2) as a soft-synth controller, playing sounds from out of my PC. Both solutions work quite well, though the onboard sounds make playing really simple. Setting up softsynths can be more involved, and time consuming, because there's a lot of possibilities involved. You have to connect the keyboard to the PC via midi cable, set up communications, then set your softsynths to play correct sounds or soundfonts, then get your tracks to record what you're playing, etc.
Budget is a good thing to have, at least a fair idea of what you're looking to spend, which you seem to have, so that's good.
I/O capacity is the number of sources you can plug into your interface at one time. Some devices have 2 inputs, so you can plug 2 signals at once, and record them onto separate tracks in software. Others have 4 or 8, like the maudio 1010, and ESI ESP1010 (both PCI devices).
Preamps are an important thing to be including in your search. Some devices have preamps built into the interface, like the Tascam US122, and others. These devices accept an XLR cable, which comes from a MIC. Conversely, devices like the 1010 don't have built in preamps, so you'd have to have another device to do the 'preamp' duties.
I use a mixer for it's preamps, to boost my MIC signals up to LINE level. Then i connect cables from my mixer over to my interface LINE inputs. This works pretty well for me. Some people will spend more to get a decent preamp, like a grace, or avalon, or even higher. These more 'better' preamps usually start around 500$ and go up from there. You may want to consider a more 'better' MIC to go with this solution though, and they will start around 500$ and go up from there as well. I think the SM7B is in the 500 range, though I don't remember offhand. Oop, 350 at sweetwater.
Now, several of the firewire devices have built-in preamps, which may not be of quite the high quality as a 1000$ outboard preamp, but you may never notice the difference, if you're just having fun, playing hobby, or working at the pro-sumer level (some nice stuff, but not enough to be on par with Nashville high-end studios). But this doesn't mean you can't make a kick-butt product. Knowing your gear, and your talents goes a fair bit further than having great gear, but not knowing what you're doing =).
Digital I/O is on an interface that will accept input from another device, but in digital format (1s and 0s, instead of an AC sine wave, AKA analog). Sometimes you may have an outboard preamp that will output digital, or you may have a guitar effects that puts out digital (my GT6 does), or a drum machine.
I wouldn't worry too much about digital I/O, until it comes up on it's own. You may pay for a device that has it, and never use it. Then again, if you get a device that has Dig I/O, it doesn't hurt.
I know there's a collection of people that use the MOTU devices, and like them, but I read on Reaper board that they're customer support is non-existant, so I'd be leery just for that. RME has the fireface 400, which seems like a right dandy device, having lots of I/O options (digital and whatnot). If you're just looking at 2 channels, then EMU has a 2 channel device, the FA101, I think.
Otherwise, one thing you can do, if you want brand specific info, is to call sweetwater, and get a sales engineer. This person will be with you from now on, and get to know you, so they can give good advice on your gear purchases. They seem to really know their stuff, so they can steer you in good directions. Course, this opinion is my own, and not HRC's or the admin staff. I've had very good luck with my SW SE, and have gotten great deals on stuff, so i've been happy.
Sorry for the long post, hopefully this helps clear up some things for you.
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Jun 23, 2009 07:37 pm Just to be super clear coz i remember back when i didnt understand this word and it drove me crazy but I/O stands for Inputs/Outputs
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jun 23, 2009 08:10 pm For a fail safe interface to work with the Mac I would suggest MOTU. Dependable, high end to say the least. And reliable drivers and easy installation. www.motu.com/products/motuaudio
For a dependable mic that will get the guitar sound right on and is durable go for a Sennheiser e609. You can add in a nice condenser in the room as well.
Jun 23, 2009 09:09 pm Wow, thanks both of yall, that's some killer advice.
I like that Motu Traveler MK3, it's got some cool features from what i can see.
and, recording programs, pro tools, logic etc. any advice? im just using garage band right now, it gets the job done fine, but im sure something better is out there.
i also saw something called Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra for all my orchestra sounds, and another called Outer Limits Kompact for all the dark eerie-ness and ambience i like. i dont know the company name, just followed a link from here.
im gonna do some research on Motu, any other opinions or advice are MORE than welcome. thanks guys
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jun 23, 2009 09:56 pm For the Mac you will be a bit limited as to the programs you can use. But I believe Cubase is now ported to the Mac and it is a lot more advanced the Grageband. I like Garageband for what it is and it seems to work well for many. I'm a PC user and have been with Cakewalk since their very first program and now with Sonar Producer Edition it has everything one could want. Cubase is very similar and close to what Sonar is. Logic would be another choice, but honestly, logical to use it is not. It is a very deep and hard to grasp program. Although they have as well turned things around a bit to try and become a bit more user friendly.
There are several other Orchestral software out there that can be had a little cheaper then Quantum leap. I just think they are a little over priced for what it is. But if you have disposable income its not a bad investment.
OuterLimits is one I use frequently and you would love that for as you stated, dark and eeire sounds. Have a look at Native Instruments as well. They have a huge variety of synths/ samplers that have gigantic libraries of sounds you might be interested in.
And yes, the Traveler is killer. Portable and easy to set up anywhere you might be.
Jun 23, 2009 11:00 pm Traveler rocks (I have 2 of them). Nothing "special" - Decent preamps, decent converters, excellent routing, plenty of I/O (input/output) options, barely any usable headroom (but as long as you're working with normal and typical levels, as opposed to "get it as hot as you can without clipping," you should be fine). The software routing is fantastic (especially on a Mac).
Recording software? Heck, you could start out with Reaper. Even the beta version is nearly bulletproof on the Mac platform.
cruxTypo SzarMember
Since: Jul 04, 2002
Jun 24, 2009 06:19 am Ya'll seemingly completely avoided PT... cheers!
another quick add on to the info here, most of the more major programs like Cubase and Sonar do come with a small contingent of soft synths that can get you started. I actually use a few of the synths that came with Cubase alot.
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jun 24, 2009 10:22 am Yeah, i put reaper on a video MAC at a client's, it worked quite well.
It probably has more full-blown functionality than GB, and be a nice step up.
Plus, it's uncrippled shareware, so you can test the whole package un-impeded before you drop the $$$ (only $60 for hobby use).
pjkPrince CZAR-mingMember
Since: Apr 08, 2004
Jun 24, 2009 10:25 am Oh yeah, if you're thinking on a pro tools route, they need to run on their own hardware, so you'd be looking at an MBOX of some sort, or a higher digi-console thing, or rack unit. Those right there will wipe out your 2k in a hurry. Unless you've a real need to be in the PT world, I wouldn't worry about it.
Put your $$$ into more better things, like room treatment, mics, preamp, after the interface, of course.
Jun 24, 2009 06:32 pm wow, thanks PJK, i was not aware of this. that's something i needed to know, so thanks man
same goes for everyone, i'd be lost without this site lol
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jun 24, 2009 07:15 pm Don't be fooled and do the PT thing because someone tells you its the only PROFESIONAL Daw because it isn't. Its a bottomless money hungry glob of hardware and software that will cost you more in 2 years then may spend in 10.
Anyway, Sonar comes with a lot more the a small contingent of synths. It comes with a huge load of usable synths you might find interesting for what your looking to do.
Massive, I love the comment on the headroom. Ya, its not for those who don't pay attention to their level's that is for sure.
Jun 24, 2009 08:58 pm ^
explain, Noize, since i'll probably be getting one of them
do you mean don't leave it on a long time, or record too loud? maybe that's just tube amp heads, idk, but thats what i think of when i hear overheating and headroom
lol
Jun 24, 2009 09:10 pm Also, will Ableton Live 7 work on a Mac with the leopard OS?
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Jun 24, 2009 10:08 pm Overhead just means that yes, keep your input levels respectable and not too hot or loud. Its not very forgiving if you smash it into the red too hard. It just means you will need to make certain you are not hitting the converter's too hard and smacking into the red. I've used one for filed recording and found its not too hard to keep it from clipping the converters if you just watch what your doing.
As for Ableton Live this is all they say about system requirements.
Quote:
Mac: 1.25 GHz G4/G5 or faster (Intel Mac recommended), 1 GB RAM (2 GB recommended), Mac OS X 10.4.11 (10.5 or later recommended), DVD-ROM drive
You might find Ableton a bit out of what your really looking for in a DAW though. Its not a very nimble working environment at all.
