May 23, 2009 01:28 pm Quote: 4 32 channel EQ's
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Sound System Equipment help/recommendations
Posted on May 21, 2009 03:22 am
black2002ls
Member Since: Jan 29, 2009
Alright. Some of you are familiar with me, have helped me out with a couple of issues. I've been working on adding to my personal stash of sound equipment. First let me outline the system that I currently run. This is in a venue that will hold about 400 ppl.
FOH
House equipment
Mackie 1694 VLZ3 pro
4 31 band EQ's
BBE sonic Maximizer
Alesis picoverb
Personal Equipment
DBX 266 Comppressor
Behringer Feedback Destroyer
Amp Rack
2 Peavey PV900 (monitor amps)
1 QSC 2450 (pushing a pair of PR-15's)
1 Crown XLS 5000 pushing a pair of JBL SRX725's
A not on the JBL's. In one cabinet there is a 15 with a blown voice coil, and in teh opposite cabinet there is a blown horn. I have it set up for left and right, where one pushes the peavey's and the other pushes the JBL's which are set up pretty much as sub cabs. I keep telling the owner to fix them or he will end up having to completely replace the $1800 cabs.
What I'm looking for is equipment that I can add to my personal collection to help improve the sound quality. I eventually hope to strike out on my own and run sound for someone one day, so everything I add will see more use later on. I'm picking up a TC m300 that saw nothing but a little studio use for $80 this weekend, I'm not impressed with the picoverb and its starting to give me issues. I'm thinking a crossover would be a good investment to help them protect the JBL's. Suggestions on brand, model and the like are encouraged. I'd like to stick to items that are in the $100 to $150 range for now.
(edited for corrections!)
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May 23, 2009 01:28 pm Quote: 4 32 channel EQ's
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May 23, 2009 03:47 pm question? or comment? I'm lost with your post. BOH is back of house, we keep the amps by the stage
May 23, 2009 04:15 pm Wow. You got the fun job do you?
There really isn't all that much we can suggest to you. Other then have the owner fix the system.
I will tell you that the BBE piece, yeah loss that thing. They are nothing but trouble. And cause more damage then anything else.
Other then a few gates to help clean up the drums, there is not too much I can help you with.
Sorry.
I wish that there was a piece in your price range that I could suggest. But, I can't think of any.
May 23, 2009 04:50 pm Rob, you have been a great help thus far. what kind of damage will the BBE cause. I bypass it every once in a while, during a slow night when we have a show and play with the eq a bit to try and get the same clear sound I get with the maximizer. I'm still learning things. I've been meaning to look into those Drawmer gates. I've noticed them in a couple of racks at the bigger shows and venues I've snuck behind the sound desk at. I just picked up an SKB 12 space rack case off ebay for under $100 so I can keep all of my new toys protected and mobile. My next investment may be in the form of microphones. Most people use Shure Beta 58's Who knows, I'll just look and see what is available when the next round of funds is available. Should be in a few weeks
May 23, 2009 04:55 pm oh, I would like to go to a stereo L/R set-up, but I feel that with the state of the sound system I should have a crossover before I do this to keep just the bass going to the JBL's. Comments? Recommendations? If your suggestions are out of my price range, go ahead and throw them out there. I've been working with this set-up for 7 or 8 months now in basically its current state so a little waiting and saving to get good equipment will pay off for me personally in the long run.
I would also like to mention. I produced the first show with the new crown power amp last night. It is amazing what a difference having enough power to supply what your equipment wants will do. It sounds like an entirely new venue compared to what it was when I started on and what I had tweaked it to with the underpowered system it was. so now, instead of a bridged 2450 pushing a pair of JBL SRX725's it is seeing that crown throwing 1800 per cab at is, roughly, as they are 4 ohm cabs.
May 23, 2009 05:08 pm BBE sonic maximizers can boost low end as much as +6 dB in a system. This can cause the the low end in your system to over extend.
This over extension will rip voice coils apart.
If you can find a Drawmer for a good price, buy it. They are great pieces. And you will not be disappointed. They are very quite. And pretty fast acting. I love'em!
Shure B58A's are great mic's. If you buy a few of them for yourself, I think you will be very satisfied. They have a great cut through power for live sound.
57's are always a must as well. From there, a B52, B91 are great for kick. 98's are a pain to set up, but I love the way they sound. And of course, at least 3 81's. 1 for high hat, two for over heads.
May 23, 2009 05:13 pm Crossover first! Then stereo.
The DBX driverack is good. And not that expensive. The Ashly Protea' 4.24c is better. Form there, they get a a lot more expensive.
And careful with that Crown 5000. They are no joke. And can blow a system apart in no time.
May 23, 2009 05:17 pm I keep a very close eye on the clip lights, and try and keep my overall level from the output of the board around unity gain. I'm running the amp in stereo with one side per cab. Am I in the safe zone here?
when you mention shure 57's I'm assuming you are referring to SM57 instrument mics?
Any idea where to get goosenecks or a similar hanging mount for guitar amps?
May 23, 2009 05:28 pm Yes but remember, your down one 15" speaker in one of your cabs. So yes, you should be OK, but still do keep an eye on things.
And yes, I was talking about SM57's. Everything that is not a drum, or something that needs a DI, put a 57 on it.
As far as goosenecks, "Z" bars, and so forth, anywhere. ZZsounds, Full Compass, Musicians Friend, you name it, they all carry them.
May 24, 2009 05:21 pm Yea, Ill clear up my post for you. your "32 channel eqs" I assume your referring to 31 band eqs, and your BOH. In my career of nearly 30 years of live sound, ive never heard the term BOH. There are a few countries I havent been to yet, or mabey its a new term......A crossover certainly wont protect anything, and in unfamiliar hands actually has the potential to do much more damage than good. Back to basics here. loose the feedback eliminator and learn how to EQ, get the drivers in what you have repaired. loose the exciter, all thats doing is boosting highs and lows, and creating odd order harmonic distortion. ( you could do that by making a big smiley face on the eq,) but that wouldnt look very professional, would it? If your building a rack for yourself, the TC M1 would be the lowest end piece Id consider, one question, how are you using a jbl with a blown 15 as a sub cab?
May 24, 2009 05:53 pm BOH? Yeah, never heard that one myself...
May 24, 2009 06:42 pm Sorry I didn't notice the error in that 32 band EQ statement. I posted that early in the morning, or late in the night depending on how you look at it. I'm still learning here so I apologize for the errors.
Let me go through what little background I have. I started running sound about 8 months ago, working with the small local acts that came through the bar I work at. I didn't have anyone to really help me or sit down and show me how to EQ out feedback and the like. I was simply stuck with the frustration of not being able to provide a good clean monitor mix to the performers. In a last ditch effort to clear up the issue, I purchased the Feedback Eliminator. It helped as did the BBE maximizer to help me project the vocals out in front of everything. I rely less and less on these units as time passes. I've become more confident in what I'm doing as well as hold a better understanding of what I'm doing and working with to be able to start learning to EQ monitors to eliminate feedback and to work the EQ on the Mains to improve the mix and clean things up.
Now for the place that I work at. It is not owned by musically inclined or intelligent people. It is ran by business people who see the bottom line. They don't want to invest any more and they don't want to fix what we have made work. That is one reason I started putting together my own list of equipment. I can't really afford to spend more than what I have on what I've got. The M300 came to me at a really good deal locally. I got it for half price and it fit my budget. I'd much rather pick up something that I can afford, learn to work with it and increase my understanding of what the functions do, then upgrade later on. I'm in no position as far as equipment, or knowledge, to go out and do this professionally for a road band or anything of the like. I'm still learning different pieces of equipment and how to tweak things.
As for the JBL Cab that is being used as a sub cab. The mains are set up with a JBL SRX725 and a Peavey PR15 on both sides. The JBL's are Dual 15 cabs. The JBL on stage right is down a 15 due to a blown VC. I've been trying to talk them into repairing that as well as the blown horn in the other JBL cab, warning them that emminent failure of their $1800 cabs if they don't do something. But as I said, they see the bottom line and don't want to spend the money, so I try and protect and get as much out of the system that I can.
One reason I joined this forum is for what appeared to be a vast amount of knowledge and industry experience being shared amongst the users. If I make mistakes, please correct me! I am hear to learn!
May 24, 2009 08:48 pm OK, then forget where you work, and focus on a rack for yourself. let me make a few points. 1) if you buy junk, you will have junk. 2) even if its a great deal, its still junk. 3) dont worry about whats kewel today, it will not be tomorrow. instead, find units YOU like. that being said, here we go. you will need a rack. skb, whatever, get one quite a bit larger than you think youll need, cause youll need it. get a good rackrider with pullout lights, put it at the top. ebay is good for this because you can get it cheap and theres not much to go wrong with it. now, effects, I like 3 units, 1 for drums and 2 for vocals, but thats personal pref. 3 stereo comps 1 for kick and snare, 2 for vocals, giving you 4 vocal channels of comp. 1 quad gate, that will give you rack and floor tom gates. ok, time to goto ebay. for your effects, and everyone will have a different opinion, I like a roland srv for drums, because it will let you go up to 1 sec. pre delay on reverb which makes it the perfect unit for drums, for voc. verb, anything will do. rev 5 ,rev 7, spx 90, 900, 990, 1000, TC m1, pcm 60, pcm 70, pcm 80, your call. for delay, anythng as long as it has tap. for comps, any gate/comp unit dbx, even composer pro. quad gate, behringer makes a quad gate/comp unit, valley makes a slammin quad gate. for your personal rack you wont need eqs, or house processing. for mics, shure 57s for everything except vocals, sm58s for vocals and a beta 52 for kick would be a good start.
May 24, 2009 08:57 pm Later add a condenser or 2 for high hat and overheads, 3 or 4 claws, a few direct boxes, and a junker for a talkback mic (with a switch so the band doesnt hear you mocking them). If you can find a drawer cheap, (2 or 3 space, throw it in your rack for now for headphones, talkback mic, board tape, sharpies, and whatever else you like to have handy. (ear plugs, tylenol, those little bottles of jack daniels they have on airplanes, ect.) you may get to the point that you have to loose the drawer or get a bigger rack, but for now, youll find it handy.
May 24, 2009 10:27 pm Thanks for the input. I'll have to read through it a few times to process it all. I do have an SKB 12 space rack on the way. Picked it up for about $75. A rack rider is next on the list, anything in particular to stay away from?
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