Mar 02, 2009 01:33 pm I can't get it to play. They are doing some network optimizations today at my work but your file is the only thing not working so far.
---- Comment this mix...? ----
Posted on Mar 02, 2009 12:50 pm
solipsism
Member Since: Nov 28, 2004
I'd be grateful for some feedback and/or advice on the mix of the song in my profile ("The Sirens").
It's starting to sound pretty ok in my ears, but there's still something missing in the overall feeling of the mix.. don't know if it's due to the mix or mastering (the only things I used when mastering was low cut and limiter).
So any ideas about balance, panning, eq or whaterver that could make it sound better... I'm all ears.
edit: It seems you have to download for it to work...
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Mar 02, 2009 01:33 pm I can't get it to play. They are doing some network optimizations today at my work but your file is the only thing not working so far.
Mar 02, 2009 01:39 pm Not just you Cpt, won't play for me either.
Mar 02, 2009 07:50 pm It won't play because the link refers to his Member Profile -> Music page, not the MP3.
Mar 02, 2009 10:38 pm I tried uploading the song again, but it doesn't seem to work... What can I be doing wrong?
Mar 02, 2009 11:06 pm Ok, I uploaded it here :
www.geocities.com/solipsism_622/music
Have a listen and tell me what you think. (had to make it 96kbps, hope it's not too crappy...)
Mar 03, 2009 12:14 am Sounds pretty dang good to me, especially considering 96kbps stream. Can't really say I'd change anything in the mix. The song is really cool, really like the changes in tempo.
Dan
Mar 03, 2009 10:28 am Thanks Dan.
More opinions? It would be good to get comments from people with experienced ears, to learn if there's something to improve.
Mar 03, 2009 02:59 pm I need to listen on better speakers but... my only concern so far is dry sounding drums. I like a little more air to mine, perhaps a light drum plate reverb on the whole kit.
Mar 03, 2009 07:53 pm Well the download here was working yesterday and appears to be gone now. I'm giving a listen in a bit here and will post back.
Mar 03, 2009 08:36 pm Double check and make sure you don't have any odd character's and such in the file name. I knew I should have down loaded it yesterday to listen today. But the 96k file gives an OK picture.
As it is nearing the 5 minute mark there is a short stretch were it seems to get a little cluttered sonically. This may be due to the 96k file though. But it seems the guitar tracks are all competing for the same sonic space in the mix at that point of the song.
There were a couple other brief spots of that as well.
Personally I liked the track for the most part. I agree with Tripps that the drums might use a little more ambiance, but just tiny bit.
For the most part I really like the guitar and bass sound. Although the bass does get a little lost in the mix here and there, but I do mean very little. It is still present but not sounding as powerful as it does in other spots.
I would really like to hear this in a higher quality file to be sure we are not just hearing the sonic ailment of the 96k file.
Mar 04, 2009 12:26 am I uploaded the song to my profile again. I don't have any speakers connected to my computer (don't ask), but it looked like it was working at least when downloaded.
Thanks for the comments. There actually is a plate reverb on the drums, but maybe I was too careful with it.
I was starting to think the bass is lost myself. It sounds a bit uneven to me as well. Could be the miced speaker track doing less proximity effect on some notes?
I'm also wondering if the the guitars sound too thin, but maybe raising the bass would help with that...
Mar 04, 2009 12:48 am It works when downloaded, but not in the HRC player, it might be the odd bit rate you're using (160kbps) try 128, or 192kbps and I bet it'll work.
Listening at the higher bit rate, I think you could lower the main guitar just a tiny bit and I'd agree the guitars need a slight warming. They don't really sound thin to me, but a bit harsh. Overall I think the mix could use a slight boost in the low end and/or cut in upper mid range to warm it up. In the softer section I think a bit of delay on the lead vocal would sound good and I'd also agree the drums could use a bit more ambience. The mix is real close, just small tweaks will really bring it up that next notch.
Dan
Mar 04, 2009 10:04 am Already tried with 128kbps, didn't work. And with 192kbps I couldn't get it uploaded at all, maybe because of the 9,29mb filesize?
...There actually is a bit of delay on the lead vocals, am I being too subtle on effects?
Mar 04, 2009 07:06 pm Much better, now I can hear it clearer for sure.
I can hear the bass a bit better now with the higher bit rate as well. I can hear the delay on the vocals though yes a tiny little boost in the reverb on them might help some.
On the guitar's, now it does give a better picture. I'm thinking on that it is pretty heavy in the upper mid range as OD stated for sure. I think that might be the issue as well in the parts I mentioned yesterday. During some section's that mid heavy sound is OK, but it does need a nice does of lower end on the guitar's that might help. Make certain not to let it bury the bass though.
The lead lines all sound very good as is. That tone will make them stand out for sure.
The tone of that rhythm guitar though is so familiar but I just can't place the tune I have heard it like that before.
Here is a suggestion on the guitar's for this tune. While I really like the tone of the rhythm guitar in this song it needs to be blended maybe with a more bottom heavy toned guitar track as well. You might try tracking another rhythm guitar track with a more bottom ended ballsy tone to it. Then mix them each panned off center just the smallest bit. You will find that it might really give the rhythm track a whole new life while allowing you to lower the level of the guitars without them disappearing in the mix.
On being too subtle with the effect's. Yes maybe a little too subtle. but as stated it is better to start out subtle and then move it up from there. For the drums I would only add a tiny bit more reverb as that snare has a very cool sound, but could go way out of control with too much or too big a reverb.
I must say though I really like this tune and look forward to hearing it again one you get it tweaked.
And Finland? Very nice indeed. How do you like that Engl Fireball, and what guitar are you playing through it?
Mar 06, 2009 01:30 am I play it with an Ibanez rga121 and sometimes a Hagström Ultra Swede, both with Dimarzio Evolution pickups. I like the amp very much, and it sounds good trough my home-made 4x12 cab with celestion v30's. Though I have never gotten it to sound as good recorded as it sounds "live". But always improving...
Thanks for all the advice, I'll make a new mix and see what I can do to get it better. It's just so frustrating and time consuming with the 16-track recorder, bouncing tracks back and forth... I have to start recording with a computer some day.
Mar 06, 2009 10:09 am Getting it to sound recorded like it does live is pretty tough. You can get close by working on the miccing technique you use. Experiment a little bit with were you place the mic and so on. It looks like you have enough mic's that you could even use a second mic back from the cab a little to catch some of the room in the recording as well.
But indeed, the 16 track makes work of it if your doing heavy track counts.
Mar 08, 2009 12:51 am On this particular recording I had 4 mics to 3 tracks on guitar. Three dynamics and one ld condenser.
Something like this:
Very nice 3D picture :)
I tried to keep everything as much in phase as I could.
And I didn't layer anything. All different guitar lines are played only once. Partly to save tracks, partly because it's a difficult song to play exactly the same twice (for me at least). I parallel compressed the guitars when mixing though. I know everyone layers the guitars with hundreds of tracks these days, but I wanted to try this kind of approach this time...
Mar 08, 2009 01:20 am I made a new mix and uploaded it to my profile, have a listen and tell me what you think!
Mar 08, 2009 09:14 pm CAn you tell me which mic's you were using and the position's. Start with the upper left speaker and just go clockwise from there. I'll figure it out from there. I might see something that will help get a little different tone or a little clearer I should say. Something that will give you a bit more to work with toward an end result.
I only listened quietly to the new mix. I will give it a bit more volume tomorrow and give it a better listen. The guitars seemed a tad thicker. Might have just been my head though.
Mar 08, 2009 09:42 pm If you're having trouble getting a satisfactory sound on the recorded track, it's probably because of all of the mics. See what you can do with a single dynamic mic first. Then, if you can get something good with that, add a condensor a few feet away. Any more than that and you're asking for some pretty serious complications with phase cancellation, no matter where you place the mics. And the more phase cancellation you have, the weaker the guitar is going to sound. With 4 microphones all recieving the guitar sound at different times, there's no telling what all phase issues will crop up.
Mar 08, 2009 11:46 pm The mics were from upper left: EV N/D767, Audix i5, Sennheiser e606, t.bone sct700.
The EV and Audix went through a mixer to one track, about 50-50. I added the Sennheiser last just for the heck of it.
Of course I listened to the separate mic tracks but they were so well in phase that it started sounding better when raising the other tracks as well. Before this I have always used one dynamic and one condenser, but this was a kind of an experiment as an option to doubling/layering the guitars.
Mar 08, 2009 11:49 pm And don't mock the t.bone, it's the best-sounding and most versatile mic I own.
Mar 09, 2009 06:00 pm Yep, the EV and Audix on one speaker and one track might be a guilty party to part of the sonic quality.
The thing with doing a mass miccing like that is that each mic must have an absolute distinct character that adds something to the tone of the track.
I would say if your going to do that take the Audix out of the picture, or try it separately and the EV on one speaker. Near the outer edge of the cone point it toward the center with it about 1/2" off the grill. The e606 set it on another speaker again just off the grill, near the outer edge about 3 inches in from the rim of the speaker.
The the t.bone find a good spot out in the air. Probably were you had it was good. I suggest keeping it up at the level of the upper set of speakers.
Mar 09, 2009 09:08 pm Nothing wrong with the T-Bone. Looks like one of those decent mic's at a decent price.
Mar 10, 2009 06:17 am Well, next time I'll hopefully be a bit wore wise. Again. For this recording, I think I'll stick with the tracks I have and try to make the most of it. I appreciate the advice, though.
I'm almost happy with the latest mix, exept that the background vocals are uneven and too loud at some parts, and the acoustic guitar is not loud enough. IMO. What do you think about the bass? I put the miced track louder than the direct one this time, I think there was some more warmer low end in it.
Mar 11, 2009 09:55 pm Oh ya, you have a decent sound going now with the track. I don't know that I'd mess about with it for now.
I'll have to give it a listen tomorrow as I'm running out of time here tonight. but I'll catch it and let ya know.
Mar 12, 2009 09:08 am Ok, now I think it's the final version. I'm getting sick of the song already. :)
But I still don't understand why the song won't play in the HRC player..?
Mar 13, 2009 09:41 pm I'll catch it tomorrow as well.
Mar 14, 2009 05:05 pm I'm wondering if it is the ÿ you are using in the name. Odd characters can muff it up on occasion but the other version's didn't have that although one had a period in it. but not sure that would muff it up like the fancy ÿ might.
Anyway, I liked it on the last version but this one has a couple more tiny refinements and it works just fine I think. I would call it good for now and move on. You'll discover new things to try for the next one with what you've gained from asking and hearing what others thought might work.
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