Feb 05, 2009 09:17 pm I'll leave this one for Rob or monmixer. They are the resident Live guys and can better serve to answer your need's.
need thoughts from more experienced techs/eng. about how i use my rig
Posted on Feb 05, 2009 06:02 pm
acalasiasound
Member Since: Feb 05, 2009
So i'll go down through what i have real quick and tell you how i use it and if anyone has any suggestions or answers to my questions please let me know!
First I'm just going over my mixer and outboard processing and what i'm feeding into it and how and what i'm processing... i'm good on my speakers and amplification if you're curious i have two pair of L'acoustic hi q's two pair or L'acoustic norms and two pair of L'acoustic 18 inch subs.
ANYWAY...
For my mixer I have an Allen and Heath 2800 board. It has 32 channels 8 groups 10 aux sends and I can either mix down to a stereo pair or mono.
my outboard gear consists of.
RANE real time analyzer
RANE Stereo 32 band EQ for the stereo pair
4 DBX stereo gate/compressors total of 8
2 DBX quad gates total of 8
3 stereo digital signal processors...can't think of the brand right now
Anyway the story behind this is the national guard dumped about 100,000 dollars into sound reinforcement and because i went to school for recording i get to be in charge.
So i'll run over what we have coming into the board. Usually we have 4 maybe 5 vocals so i run all of them through the gate/compressors for some control then send them out through aux send to my signal processor and usually run them through a plate reverb there really are too many choices and i haven't the time to test to find exactly what i like yet. Then I'll bring that back into the board on channel 25. By the way my FX are brought in on channels 25-32.
Next I have my instruments on channel 9-16. That consists of one electric guitar two acoustic guitars, an electric bass, and a keyboard!
I gate and compress the mic i have on the guitar cab because he runs through a digitech pedal and his levels always change so that helps me get some control. I run the acoustics through DI's and EQ them a little to take out resonance. Then i run the bass and keyboard through DI's and rarely do anything i've thrown a compressor on the bass but it really doesn't need anything.
Next I have the drums. I use all Audix microphones so I have a D6 on the bass drum have a D6 on the lowest floor tom Put 3 d2's on the other 3 toms. I lied I use Audio Technica 4041's as over heads. Sometimes i go back and forth between an Audix i5 or a d2 on the snare and I haven't yet but plan on putting another 4041 on the high hat. I eq everything to get a better sound run the toms through the gates and I'll mess around and sometimes run the bass drum and snare through the gate/comp. Now here is were i have an exact question. What do you think would be better? Bus the drums to a stereo pair and use 2 of my groups as the stereo pair. This is nice because i just have to push a button and the panning is already done for me. Then from there i can use the gate/compressor and parallel compress the stereo pair. Or on that pair I can run it through a preset on the signal processor which will run it through a compressor then run it through what they call is a drum plate for reverb. Now I can also use aux sends and bring it back into the board but it makes more sense just to send the stereo pair to the groups.
ANYWAY i know this is really out of order but send me some suggestions let me know of other outboard gear i should have and use like a distressor or anything else. The guard will pretty much get anything i want. ALSO I don't have to worry about a monitor mix I have two tails on my snake and I also have 2 more allen and heath boards that are 24 channels. we use one for the monitor mix!!
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
[ Back to Top ]
Feb 05, 2009 09:17 pm I'll leave this one for Rob or monmixer. They are the resident Live guys and can better serve to answer your need's.
Feb 05, 2009 09:31 pm Grouping the drums is a common practice. But, putting all of them under one comp is not.
The best way is to gate each drum individually, then assign them to a group. This way you can get all of the tone and resonance out of each drum.
Their are as many opinions as there are engineers for how to assign the drums to a group. For myself, I put the kick, snare, high hat, on one group. And the rack toms on another. It's just easier for me when you need to push a song a little. But, as I said, each to their own on that one.
If you have unlimited resources at your disposal, Then may I suggest some really good vocal mic's. The Shure KSM9 is a real kick *** vocal mic. Other then that, I have never been a big fan of the Rane EQ. I have been more partial to the Klark Teknik DN370. Their op amps just sound better to me. And they seem to react better as well.
One thing that you are doing that I don't fully understand, is putting a gate on the guitar. Is that because the rig buzzes? Or is there another reason for this? Normal I just put a small amount of compression on them, but that's about all. If the rig buzzes, then I just fix the problem with the rig. 90% of the time, you find that it's in his signal path to the amp anyway.
Other then that, what you are doing sounds fine. Just watch your gain structure, and life should be good.
So, how is the Guard these days. I finished active duty is 92, and the IRR in 94. There are a few that are still active duty here at the HRC. One serving in Guam. And many retired service members as well.
Anyway, I hope this helps. Let us know if you need any other info.
Feb 05, 2009 09:53 pm as far as the drums go i'm assigning each individual track to the stereo mix but to add a beefier and control sound I'll bus everything in stereo to a stereo pair using 2 of my groups and i'll compress them thus parallel compressing my drum tracks. So i keep each original track in the mix but i also have the stereo pair for a controlled sound so i have the overtones in the original and a beefier sound with the compressed pair.
I use the gate/compressor on the guitar because that's all i have i don't have a single compressor, but i do turn the gate off or atleast turn the threshold way down so it really isn't on.
The guard is really good i have a year and a half left and then 2 years irr, but considering all i do is FOH sound and play trumpet twice a year it's a really good gig!
What sucks about what I have is I didn't get to go with the commander at the time and he just picked what he thought would work. I wish i would have been there i would have picked up more gates and compressors and would have a higher end comp./limiter for my main mix. instead he got 8 of those stereo EQ's which i think is a waste of money at most i need one for myself and maybe 2 at the monitor board. Also, I'm using Sennheiser wireless mics for vocals which is really nice so no problems there.! And I like to add i was taught techniques used in recording so i'm not sure if a lot of FOH eng./techs use recording techniques for live applications but i think atleast the parallel compression translates real well between recording and live audio! Let me know what anyone thinks or if anyone has questions or answers for me please!
Feb 05, 2009 10:13 pm Just about all recording techniques will work when running FOH sound. The only thing that will not, is the 31 band EQ.
In recording as you know, you use the 31 band to shape everything to sound good going to tape. Allowing you to raise and lower frequencies at will. In live sound, It's cut only. NEVER EVER RAISE!!!
By raising any frequencies, you can inadvertently add to much energy to your drivers. Which can lead to over excursion and over heating. Either way, the end result is not good.
Gain, board EQ, FX's, all only work one way. Weather recording or Live.
So, where are you are you serving at? Anywhere good?
Feb 05, 2009 10:25 pm yea i understand that I always cut and never ever try to boost even in recording I don't like to boost. I make use of my EQ usually by getting rid of resonance and I try to get good sounds by microphone techniques instead of just boosting for example adding 1k for a better attack on the bass drum! I'm with the 28th ID army band in hollidaysburg. I grew up 10 mins. away in altoona and went to school at Lebanon Valley College which is 10 minutes south of Ft. Indiantown Gap which is the home post for the 28th ID. So it's not like i'm in hawaii or anything but i really can't complain it's better than being in the sand pit! Thank you for all the replies to my post i've just wanted to go over everything with someone with experience and came across this website which i've been checking out other things on here and it's really been a help and even more put more confidence in what i think i am doing!
Feb 05, 2009 10:33 pm Ft Indian Town Gap. I took PLDC there. I am only a few hours down the road from you. I live in Philly. And I do quite a few shows in Harrisburg.
I'm headed out your way here in the next couple of weeks. The Berks county Jazz Fest is coming up soon. I usually do the shows at the Scottish Rite.
Well, Reading isn't that close to you. But, it's not all that far away either. If you get a chance, stop on out. Check out some of the gear that we are using.
And just to let you know. Our shop is right across the street from the Willow Grove Air Force Base. And I do mean right across the street. It's the runway, Rt. 611, then our driveway. Ever have to go there for anything?
Feb 05, 2009 10:43 pm nope i've never had to be out there for anything but i'll definitely keep that in mind and next time i'm out west i'll hit you up and find out what you're up to if you're doing sound or anything. I'm in a touring band so i'm all over the place in the summer but we're usually out in west PA 2 times a summer. If you're interested go check out our stuff at www.myspace.com/acalasia and if you like it i'll let you know about any shows in the area. Let me know what you think if you check out the music!
Feb 05, 2009 10:59 pm Uh,... Don't you mean East?
I see that you play up in Willamsport. Ever play that dive The Cell Block? To help out a friend of mine, I did monitors for a cover band called Fuzzy Bunny Slippers. The Cell block was one of the places that they played on a regular bases. We also played a club in Lebanon. Can't remember the name of the place. It was tiny little hole in the wall. That was a bar restaurant. Once you put the speakers out, there was no room for anything else. But I guess a gig is a gig.
But, yeah. Let me know if you ever make it out to the Philly area. I guess it would be the TLA, or Dobs. Not to many live venues in Philly any more.
Feb 05, 2009 11:06 pm yea i meant east sorry i'm tired. We've never played the cell block but williamsport and that area like jersey shore and clearfield are always good turn outs. I'll definitely let you know if we're in the philly area we've played in the city once it was called philafunk!
Feb 05, 2009 11:14 pm Well, let me know. And I'll keep you informed when we do gig's out your way.
Feb 05, 2009 11:29 pm alright sounds good let me know if you're either in state college or altoona i live in state college right now so that would be the most convenient
Feb 06, 2009 12:51 am definitely will do and by the way the signal processor that i am using is a lexicon LX200
Feb 06, 2009 11:22 am Lexicon is all you have to say. Is there any better?
But, yeah. We do rentals out there for Penn State. So, I may be out there from time to time.
Feb 06, 2009 05:57 pm Everything Rob said..lol I will add a few points. 1) In live sound we have channels not tracks. I personally dont care but there are those who would snicker. Take that rane RTA and use it to level speakers on uneven ground. and get Obama to buy ya a Klark like rob said, or BSS, that would do too...You might want to consider pinning like this: kick, snare, high hat, rack, rack, floor, oh, bass, kb, guitars, acoustics, vocals, efx returns and then a TB. A nice little trick if your driving both front and monitors is send a TB mic down a return of the snake and pin it to 24 in your monitor console. leave it up a lil, and use the cheapest mic with a switch you can find so you can ***** at the band.
Feb 07, 2009 11:25 am I knew there was a use for the Rane RTA. I just couldn't figure out what.
Thanks monmixr!
Feb 08, 2009 08:32 am sounds good sorry about the recording lingo it's a habit from being in the studio a lot more than i do live sound. I'll definitely try that order it makes sense and I have a talkback right in the board which i can assign to the monitor if i'm running it or I have 8 different lines that i could run to the snake and run into the monitor mix. Also I haven't used the RTA to level my speakers yet. I do use it to ring out rooms quickly. I have a decent ear since i had quite a few ear training classes in college, which i must say were some fun and cool classes just learning the sound spectrum was pretty cool, you can't beat when you're in a hurry and you can just rely on technology to tell you which frequency is resonating! Although if i have the time it's good practice for me not to use the RTA. Thanks a lot guys and i'll try to refrain from using the word tracks and use channels!
Feb 11, 2009 06:30 am Yea the talkback mics built into the board usually arnt cool for live work. Just go with a mic into a channel, if its going through a return to the monitor console to goto monitors, be sure to use one with a switch, so when you make fun of the band, they wont hear ya....I cant tell you how many times ive had a band acting all wierd around me after a show only to discover Id left my talkback mic on... oh well.. thats life in the big city. as far as the track/channel thing, recording guys do it all the time.
|
Related Forum Topics: |
If you would like to participate in the forum discussions, feel free to register for your free membership.