Vocal Intonation-Lack of
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Posted on Mar 20, 2003 01:34 pm
Alanfc
Member Since: Mar 13, 2003
Hello-
I had a question for anyone who may know about Effects and vocal intonation.
Not specifically the auto-tuning type software/fx, but really just a "How'd they do that?" question.
I was listening to a recent Chili Peppers song and the recent Queens of the Stone Age song and noticed something I never had before. The intonation of the lead vocal.
I could hear the intonation go good & bad on the lead vocal, but I couldn't hear any obvious processing on it (not that I could anyways). But the bad spots didn't wash out everything or jump out at you . Its almost like the nanosenconds of sharpness or flatness was masked or blended somehow, without affecting the volume of the voice. But I HEAR the bad tones !! This makes me crazy. Not the intonation itself but "HOW did they do that !?"
I read somewhere that you can cut the EQ at 3,000 hz to mask some aspects of bad intonation, is that close? Or could that be it?
Or is it some AUTOTUNE device which my ears have just caught on to ? I mean I really heard the flat/sharp in those voices, but they never created that real dissonance that makes your skin crawl.
Does anyone have any advice on this? Am I out of my mind? Do you hear this too?
This is important to me because I am doing vocals on my songs now and intonation is 90% there, but when I do blow the intonation, even just a little, it washes out everything. I don't mind singing a part 50 times to get it right, but I am incredibly curious. Maybe if I learned what they're doing on these recordings I can get it in 30 takes instead of 50.
Thanks
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Mar 20, 2003 03:28 pm Well, I'm not sure if this is what you're hearing or not, but it may very well be that they're using something like Antares' Auto Tune 3. This nifty little plug-in retunes notes that are off key and is very subtle about it. It has an attack time setting that allows you to set the amount of time it takes to retune a sharp/flat note. This can allow a sharp/flat note to comethrough long enough to be noticed by discriminating ears, but not hang around long enough to really heard as an off key note.
Like I said, I'm not exactly sure if what you are describing can be explained by this, but if you're looking for a way to tighten up your vocal track, I would highly recommend this plug-in. Check it out...
Musicians Friend Link
service.bfast.com/bfast/c...mp;bfmtype=gear
Antares Website Link (downloadable demo available)
www.antarestech.com/products/auto-tune3.html
AlanfcMember
Since: Mar 13, 2003
Mar 20, 2003 04:27 pm
AHa !
I see
Thanks alot
Mar 20, 2003 04:45 pm No problem. Auto Tune 3 is really very cool. Not only can you use it to clean up little sharps/flats in a vocal or other solo intrument track, you can also use it to create some interesting effects. I only played with it for the duration of the demo, but I definitely have it on my shopping list after what I found it capable of.
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Mar 23, 2003 11:58 am Wow dude, what a question. I am almost wondering if you are suffering from perfect pitch? Those who have or have attained perfect pitch are often frustrated by minor intonation imprefections that most of the world preceive as fine. To be honest I don't listen to a lot of chillie pepers. I usualy eat them before they can speak, but a lot of vocalists will use an occasional waver in intonation to create a controlled dissonance and highlight the tonality of their voice. Erykah Badu is a young jazz vocalist who has a real mastery of this technique (among others) and creates some exquisit sound. Maybe you are hearing a young artist "stretching" his or her vocal abilities. As far as vocal training for your recordings. Try singing scat whenever you can with out being neted and put away. It will really help with "target practice" jumping around between notes and landing on the right tone real solid.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 23, 2003 09:20 pm Walt may be spot on there. I know wveral vocalist who cannot stand to waver, and they will stop during what seems to everyone else as the perfect take. You ask why and they say play back such and such, and you dont hear it and they do. Nuts really. And what Walt said about artist like Erykah Badu, Peter Gabriel, and yes even Anthony of the Chili Pepers, have great control over their vocal chords. You can even hear it in songs from bands like Tool, Meyanrd has excellant vocal control, and even though it may be hard to hear sometimes, he has that same ability to through just enough of a curve into it to make it sound as though he is off just a bit, but if you listen very hard you sill notice it blends right in.
All that aside, wouldnt it be really borring if every track on every record by every band had absolutely no mistakes or anything at all wrong with it?
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Mar 23, 2003 10:14 pm Ya Noise, Funny, but that was one of the hardest terms for me to define. [envelope] And the concept of stretching the envelope. Like bending a string or sliding into a note. I have always got a kick out of the term "perfect". Where are we? Here, always. I have a number of arrangements that are really nasty the first few times through. And over time they "grow" on me as I grow in my listening skills and I start hearing more in the same terms of the composer. I stop anticipating and limiting sounds and just listen to the piece for what "it" is.
AlanfcMember
Since: Mar 13, 2003
Mar 23, 2003 10:18 pm
Thank you Walt and Noize
My favorite guitar player ever, alive or dead, is Jimmy Page, so I think I'm safe as far as any obsession with perfection is concerned....
I think what it is, is my lack of confidence in my voice. I know I forgive any sloppiness in Jimmy Page's guitar playing as well as my own. I think its very human and gives us character. (not lumping myself in the same universe as Jimmy by any means !)
I will work that scat practice. That sounds so very logical. Getting used to my own voice and really exercising it.
I am very much a purist as far as messing with instruments or voice but I don't want to embarrass myself either.
Thanks again
WaltChief Cook and Bottle WasherMember
Since: May 10, 2002
Mar 23, 2003 10:54 pm My personal perspective. Good for you! I am constently trying to improve my bass playing. I will never be Joco Pastorius or Christian McBride, however I can grow day to day. Try not to be embarrased. Accept your voice for what it is and just enjoy working on it to get it closer to what you hear in your mind's ear. Two examples of out of the envelope voices that I can site are Satchmo and Neil Young. Not typically what I would consider "pleasing" voices and yet in the context of what they have chosen to perform they are superb! It's art Dude...Rock On!
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Mar 24, 2003 06:24 pm Nice choice to compare Walt, Louis and Neil. You could even throw Frank Zappa in there as well. He has a voice that never should have been heard singing, but if you listen to it in the context of the music he has orchestrated, it fits right in.
Bravo Walt.
