Orchestra concert mics
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Posted on Dec 08, 2008 08:08 pm
Songswelove
Member Since: Dec 08, 2008
Hi all,
New to this forum. Great help I got already from my other posts.
This one is related to capturing the orchestra performance for PA and recording.
Do I use condenser mics for picking up the instruments and dynamic mics for voices (teacher's comments)?
If I don't have that many condenser mics, would dynamic be fine as well?
We have 47 orchestra students in our school orchestra. I think we have probably 4 condenser and 2 dynamic + 2 unkonwn (?) microphones.
I do, however, have a Sony condenser mic used for MiniMD recorder. Can anyone tell me if this little mic would do a good job or not? .. this will be my 'back-up' recording device in case all things go wrong since we don't have professionals to help. We have bunch of smart parents (not me) who try to help cutting the cost of recording by working with high school vocational students. We are excited however scared by figuring out things.... Thanks in advance for all your help.
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zekthedeadcowEat Spam before it eats YOU!!!Member
Since: May 11, 2002
Dec 08, 2008 09:01 pm How big of a room is it playing in? Or is this outside?
Personally, I would think adding a PA would seriously **** up the conductor, Most remotely sanely engineered performance halls don't require a PA for any large band...
As far as recording... just ask yourself 'how do people listen to an orchestra?'
They pay good money for the front row and the box seats... so take two mics and give them the best seats.
Noize2uCzar of MidiAdministrator
Since: Apr 04, 2002
Dec 08, 2008 10:21 pm Ya, the size of the room might help figure out a good layout for using the mic's you do have.
And yes, the Sony MD recorder will be a good back up. I use mine frequently for filed recording for samples and ambient sounds.
Dec 08, 2008 11:52 pm There are two schools of thought in the distribution of mic's for an orchestral concerts.
The first school, is the purist school. Here they believe that the least amount of reinforcement as possible. This way, you are only hearing the instruments straight off of the stage. For small venues and halls that are designed for this, it's a good way of listening to the performance.
The second school, is a more aggressive approach. Where every section of the orchestra has around 4 - 5 mics per. This approach is more suited for rooms that have poor acoustics or are outdoors.
Being that you have 6 mics. 4 are condensers, and two are dynamic. I would suggest the following. Put the four condensers around each of the string and woodwind sections. One per should be OK. Just aim the mic close to the first chair. Since they should be somewhat of the best performer. Use your dynamic mics for the brass. They are loud enough on there own. So they do not need much reinforcement.
Why do I suggest this? I think that you need a little information as to what the difference is between the two mics.
Dynamic mics. These mics produce a very low voltage signal. They relay on ohm load and strength of source signal. They are very susceptible to what is known as bass proximity. Bass proximity is how well a mic picks up low note signals from a distance. Most dynamics have a bass proximity of around 1" or so. Yes! I said inch. So, the farther away you are form the mic, the thinner the signal will sound. Also, most dynamic mics have what is known as a cardioid pick up pattern. To explain what that is, is to think of a heart shape. But a heart shape that has a very rounded bottom. Take the heart, and flip it up side down. Put the center of the heart, and put it in the middle of the mics windscreen. (The silver ball of the mic.) This is how the mic will pick up signals. Very little from the back of the mic. But, a wide patch in front. So, the closer you are to the front, and center of the mic, the better it will sound.
Condenser Mics. Well, first of all, condenser is a very old term for capacitor. Not that is important, just a statement of fact. Condensers have a built in mic pre to them. In order for this mic to work, you have to supply it Phantom Power. (+48 volts) Just about all boards have Phantom Power. It is either one switch that will turn on the Phantom for every channel on your board. (ie. Mackie) Or it will have a +48 on each individual channel. Since they have a built in pre, they produce a much hotter signal. Giving them a much better bass proximity effect. Depending on the mic, you can pick up bass from several feet. Condensers come in a wide variety of pick up patterns. You will have to do some research on your models to see what they are.
This is why I suggest that you put them on the quieter instruments. Giving you a fighting chance to bring them up to the brass, and snare level.
I hope that this gives you a little insight on how to set up your mics. If I was a little vague on anything. Please ask for clarification. I or the others will do our best to help.
Dec 08, 2008 11:55 pm Oh, this is a very small school orchestra, 'free' admission... :) Our auditorium is ..hmm.. seating approximately 400 - 500 people..(sorry, I don't have the measurement.)
With this type of room (auditorium), I was told that they need mics for AP... Maybe our quality of music isn't that powerful so we need amplifiers, I think...?
I also have an "inspire" external sound mixer (4 channels, two mics, two instruments) that I can record with my PC using Adobe Audition. Do you think this is better than the Sony MD recorder or not?
The big difference I see is the types of mics in each case. I have condenser mics powered by a small battery for Sony MD. And, I have dynamic mics (maybe 2 of them) for Inspire. I have only used Sony to record a 10X12 room piano sounds, the quality was great. However, I guess the dynamic mics are probably not as sensitive as picking up the music as the small Sony condenser mic... Still deciding.
Dec 09, 2008 12:00 am As I stated above. The dynamics mics will not be very good for area micing. If you have two other condensers, that would be a better choice.
Dec 09, 2008 12:07 am Rob,
Thank you very much for your reply. It was very good to learn about the difference of mics....
I will talk to our teachers to put the mics as you described. As what I understand, all school condenser mics require phantom power from the mixer except my own little Sony mic since it has its own lithium battery.
My MD recorder will just be used for a backup in case all other means produce fuzzy results. BTW, In my mic, there is a left/right side of the mic, should I point the mic facing the orchestra to the orchestra's right or else? I am confused as how to place it correctly... To the audience, the right is the left to the music players...
Thanks a lot in advance.
Dec 09, 2008 12:14 am I had a friend that was a taper. One of the things that he would do, was to put his MD right on the stage, dead center on the front lip. He would tape it down with gaff tape, so no one would walk off with it, easily. He seemed to think that it was a great sound. Sorry to say I never heard any of his recordings. So I can't say myself that it was good.
If they have any more rehearsals, give it a try. See what you think.
