Help Running Live Sound
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Posted on Oct 03, 2008 05:53 pm
KLong
Member Since: Oct 03, 2008
Hey guys, I've been "out of it" for about 7 years and I have never really ran the sound before. I was just the drummer and we had someone else that ran our PA "back then". Anyway, I have recently just started to play again, but this time I am going to need to be the one to run sound for the band. Here is the list of equipment I have to work with and I am wanting to know the best way to set things up.
1) Mackie 808M 600W x 2 Powered Mixer.
2) Peavey 600W XRD Powered Mixer.
3) 2 - Peavey SP2G Speakers (15" + horns)
4) 2 - Peavey SP1 Speakers (15" + Horns)
5) 2 - Peavey 115 DLM (15" + horn) floor monitors
6) 2 - Peavey PR15 Speakers (15" + horns) - use as monitors or whatever
Here is what I was thinking:
A. Run all instruments into the Mackie 808M. Either DI box or mic the amps.
B. Run all vocals into the Mackie 808M as well.
C. Run out from Mackie into the 2-Peavey SP1's + 2-Peavey SP2G's for FOH.
D. Use the Monitor side of the Mackie 808M to run the monitors which go into the 2-Peavey 115DLM floor monitors.
This way everything comes into the one mixer and one amp runs FOH (which should be at 4 ohms/channel) & the other amp runs the on-stage monitors.
I will be playing a set of Roland TD6V electronic drums for this gig. I was thinking of running them straight into a pair of JBL EON15 G2's on stage behind me just to each side. (these would be borrowed)
?? - Is this the best way to run this setup? It will be playing in a medium sized venue that has a stage and seats about 400.
?? - Do I need to run the drums into FOH also or will just on-stage amplification thru the JBL's be sufficient?
?? - As the drummer, I would like to have a separate mix that I could control so that I have the proper mix of guitar, bass, keyboard, vocals, etc. that I prefer. Is there a way to do this?
?? - Would it be better to just run vocals thru the PA only and just allow the stage amps for each individual instrument carry all of the music without going thru FOH?
Thanks and any help you can give me would be GREAT! I am pretty new to this stuff.
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KLongMember
Since: Oct 03, 2008
Oct 03, 2008 06:16 pm Oh & by the way......we are a Country Band playing Branson style music shows that have several different guest stars each week. This is a venue down at the Lake of the Ozarks that seats about 400 & has a fairly large stage. We run 2 vocal mics, bass guitar, lead guitar, rythm guitar, keyboard, drums, & sometimes fiddle/steel guitar. - Thx!
Oct 03, 2008 06:31 pm Hold that thought for just a moment. I am just leaving work, and it takes a little while for me to get home.
Soon as I do, I will get back to you on this.
Oct 03, 2008 10:54 pm Sorry it took so long to get back to you. Traffic was a bear tonight.
Looking over your gear, and I think that you should consider getting another amp.
The total ohm load on one side of the amp is a 2 ohm load. That's a little heavy for the size amp that is in the 808.
Putting 4 speakers on one side of an amp, is not the best way to run your speakers for longevity.
By getting another amp, you can come out of the left and right main outs of the 808.
This will let you split the speakers down to two speakers per side of the amp.
Other then this small detail, I think the rest of your set up is fine.
By keeping your drums in a separate set of speakers, will allow for more bandwidth in your FOH. Allowing more room for vocals.
KLongMember
Since: Oct 03, 2008
Oct 03, 2008 11:15 pm Traffic...and on a Friday night...ughhh!
I am only putting 2 - 8 ohm speakers per channel on the Mackie 808M. It has a 600 Watt Amp for the Mains & a 600 Watt amp for the Monitors. It is designed like this. I would be putting an SP-1 & an SP-2 on each channel of one amp. I would use the other built-in amp to run the monitors.
Would you be able to answer some of my other questions? I am particularly interested in how to get me (the drummer) a separate mix that I can control myself separate from the monitors at front of stage. But, I would also be interested in hearing your answer to the other questions as well.
Again, thanks for your help and input!!
Oct 06, 2008 02:37 pm OK, as long as your are keeping it to a 4 ohm load, you should be fine.
For the rest of your questions, you are ratter light for bass with your system for 400 people.
With the style of music that you are playing, I think that it's OK.
As far as a separate mix goes, you may have to find a small mixer to plug your drums into.
From the mixer you can control your sound coming to your JBL's.
Being that the 808 only has one aux send on it. You would just be self contained back in your world.
Now depending on the size of the room, you can just let the amps fill the space that your are playing to.
But, I would only do so, if you have an audience of around 50 to 75. Any more people then that, then I would run everything through the Mackie.
In days to come, when you start to play larger rooms. Then you are going to need to go to a larger system then what you have currently.
What you have right now is OK for the rooms that you are in. I don't think however, that you will be able to cover a room of 600 or so.
Once you reach that point, contact me. I have a Turbosound rig for sale that you might be interested in. :)
KLongMember
Since: Oct 03, 2008
Oct 07, 2008 09:43 am Thanks a lot for all the help and advice!! Again, I am pretty new to all this sound stuff and any and all help I can get will be very beneficial. Thanks Rob!
Sounds like a couple of subs would help.
Based on this, I think I will run all instruments & vocals through the PA mixer and out to the 2 speakers per side (PV - SP1 + PV-SP2G) = 4 ohms/side. This will be run by the Main PA onboard amp @ 600W. Then, I will mix and run the front of stage monitors out of the Main PA mixer through the Monitor PA onboard amp also @ 600W. I will probably run the bass guitar & keyboard through a DI box and directly into the PA. I will probably mic the amps on the rest of the instruments. I will "mix" my Roland drums through my Peavey XRD680 powered mixer just to get a good mix, and take the main mix aux out into the JBL EON's. For my own monitor, I think all I can do is run the monitor out aux from the Main PA (808) to the Peavey XRD680 and into a floor monitor by me on the drums. I will have the same mix as the front of stage, but I can at least control my own volume this way....right? I might be able to find at least one 600W powered 18" sub that I can use for the show.
It sounds like the only way I would be able to give myself a separate monitor mix/control of each instrument (and vocals) back by me,...... I would need a mixer board that has a secondary monitor mix and send that to me and through an amp and a floor monitor.
Should I run the vocals with some effects like reverb or echo or anything? Or should I leave the vocals effects free? What effects are good to run vocals in a venue such as this? How much of the effects in the mix is good?
I'll have to check out your Turbosound rig when my cache of money arrives (ha ha)
----THX!!
Oct 07, 2008 10:55 am 18" subs are not a bad idea. But, just keep that in mind for future gigs.
How you are describing you set up is the best way for now. For small gig's, this will get you by.
As far as getting the other mic's into your mix. You can do this a couple different ways.
One of which, is to take a "Y" cable to one end of the mic cable's coming to the first mixer. From there, run a separate cable back to your mixer. (This way can be noisy.)
The second way, is to buy a small splitter box. You can find them cheap at all of the major distributors and on Ebay. This way is much cleaner. All mic cables go to the splitter box first, then out to the two mixers. One will be marked main, the other iso. It does not matter which one goes where. As long as they wind up on the same mixer. ie: All mains on the same mixer, and all iso's on another. If you are running any condenser mic's, then the +48 volts (Phantom power) will only run on the one mixer that is connected to the main outs. Phantom will not pass through the iso.
If you can not find any splitter boxes, let me know. I will send some links.
Personally, I would not run any effects on the vocals for now. Not unless you have someone who can turn them on and off. Having them on while you are trying to speak to the crowd, sounds cheesy. It's better to just go without. Also, the same effect for each song is ratter inappropriate. I don't think that each song will require the same sound.
just as a general rule for me when mixing effects. I bring them up, to where they are just underneath the dry signal. That way they are not overpowering the entire mix.
Oct 07, 2008 10:58 am while I haven't read this whole thread, I will say having an 18" sub to send your lowest of lows to with take a very inefficient load off your hipacks and allow them to perform more in their optimal range and perform better, louder and tighter...
Though with an 18" I may consider having 12" hipacks...
KLongMember
Since: Oct 03, 2008
Oct 07, 2008 11:23 am The splitter sounds like a really good idea! Does this drop the input signal voltage to each mixer in half or something? In other words, will this decrease the input signal into the mixer(s) and therefore reduce the overall gain I will have to work with or not?
I would be very interested in you sending me some links for the splitter boxes! THX again!
KLongMember
Since: Oct 03, 2008
Oct 07, 2008 06:45 pm Thanks! Looks like the splitter may do the trick for what I need. I found an ART S8 (8 into 16) splitter that looks like will work nicely.
You said you generally turn the effects on the vocals up to be just under the dry signal. What type of effect(s) are usually good for vocals? - (reverb, echo, ??)
Oct 07, 2008 08:53 pm Uh.. This may not make sense to you at first, but, both, neither, and yes.
It all depends on the song for me. Sometimes, it's reverb only. Others, it's delay only. Then again, it's both together. Or, I use something all together different. such as distortion, or a reverse gate, or a whirly effect. It just depends on what I feel the song needs.
I would have to say, that you can never go wrong with a good reverb.
Well, have to go. The two knuckleheads are starting what they are trying to call a debate.... We'll see.
